General/Other - Takeda The Problem With Takeda.

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

The teleport variation is not meant to be grounded.

stop playing him like the lasher variation.

Profit from massive jumping and NJP and lack of any type of AA in the game that are notable.

Make them respect your ability to change trajectory on any jump at all times.....
make them jump... so that you can use NJP and teleports to juggle into stuff.

Use your rangy moves when you've exhausted their meter

learn when you can back dash.

Sev found answers to your problem in half a day

just.... think outside the box a bit.

 

[Phosferrax]

huge range normals that everyone should be blocking. From 3/4's the screen its only overhead and if you can't react to blocking kunai then you legit really suck then. Now we're just going back to what other takeda's mains are saying that if you are getting hit by b21 kunai or b2 kunai...you are garbage.

So now most of the cast have to block in the majority of the screen? Most characters cant do shit off b21 mid kunai, so they have to hold whatever Takeda does until they're point black? In order to react to kunai you basically have to edge your way in. Plus there is the b3/b2 mixup.

 

[SneakyTortoise]

Worst part is alot of people are just here to blow up zyphox and completely are ignoring the point of the thread.

To be honest I haven't got a clue what the point of this thread is.
Is it to let off some steam? Is it to tell us that Takeda isn't good? I don't really know what the expected outcome of this was.

 

[HomeLee1121]

So now most of the cast have to block in the majority of the screen? Most characters cant do shit off b21 mid kunai, so they have to hold whatever Takeda does until they're point black? In order to react to kunai you basically have to edge your way in. Plus there is the b3/b2 mixup.

lol b3/b2 "mix up"...i can understand if you get hit by it once every now and then but its easily reactable .

From mid screen or more....some of the cast can jump the kunai....the ones that can't...are the ones with advancing armor moves....i mean idk what else to tell you...our main footsie/spacing/whiff punishing move has so many gaps and its negative if you want to just finish the string.

 

[Death]

Yes. I like how I come in this thread to talk about sonya and disregard zyphox's first world problems hahaha.
After b1, just backdash to escape the b14 pressure. So B1 *Backdash here* 4.
You can even be blocking, mash on back dash and let go of block after the b1.
I was tired of sonya BS. so i went into the lab and picked sonya, had the AI go to reversal.
Solved my problems..... for now......

We'll see in a couple weeks lol

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The teleport variation is not meant to be grounded.

stop playing him like the lasher variation.

Profit from massive jumping and NJP and lack of any type of AA in the game that are notable.

Make them respect your ability to change trajectory on any jump at all times.....
make them jump... so that you can use NJP and teleports to juggle into stuff.

Use your rangy moves when you've exhausted their meter

learn when you can back dash.

Sev found answers to your problem in half a day

just.... think outside the box a bit.

This doesn't make any sense at all. You aren't going to make them jump by jumping. All you will make an opoonent do is grab free pressure by either punishing air grapple, punishing air teleport or trip guarding your jump normals.

This is spoken like someone who isn't training against good players. If you're jumping, they're getting in.

 

[SEV]

The problem isn't necessarily that you're not as viable in close -- it's that you can't keep people out, so you're forced to play in close. I think that's what Zyphox was alluding to. If you can keep people from getting in, or at least make it difficult (think Sinestro) then you'd expect that once they finally get there, it'd be more advantageous for them (even though this isn't always the case, even with zoners). But if you can't make it difficult for them to get in, then it's extremely hard to actually keep the match where you're at advantage.

Aye man, whatever, haha. I'm not here to get into a debate over Takeda. I read the post, decided to put some time into a character that I haven't played yet with the focus of filling these holes and that's what I did, in like thirty minutes. But next time I'll just on the side lines and watch the salt for a good laugh rather than put in minimal effort with the intention of helping.

 

[gpmoney]

The teleport variation is not meant to be grounded.

stop playing him like the lasher variation.

Profit from massive jumping and NJP and lack of any type of AA in the game that are notable.

Make them respect your ability to change trajectory on any jump at all times.....
make them jump... so that you can use NJP and teleports to juggle into stuff.

Use your rangy moves when you've exhausted their meter

learn when you can back dash.

Sev found answers to your problem in half a day

just.... think outside the box a bit.

What makes you think this has not been tried yet? Have you watched takeda play? He cant even nj "good" players. His jump normals are also slow and you can jump after him and do a jump punch every time he jumps. He is -31 on air specials and smart players won'tlet you jump teleport or do anything this dumb.

 

[gpmoney]

To be honest I haven't got a clue what the point of this thread is.
Is it to let off some steam? Is it to tell us that Takeda isn't good? I don't really know what the expected outcome of this was.

Basically shirai variation takeda was develped bad. All the people who suck are mad cause they cant beat a bad character.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Considering I dont actually main Takeda and know virtually nothing about him, I am going to take Zy's word for it.

However, I am hoping to see all the idiots who told all of us Kitana mains that we didnt know shit about our chatacter and to basically get good. Lol

Also, @MITDJT probably has a lecture for you as well.

Nah no lecture haha, I am not going to come into every thread to talk about what ppl should do (whether there character is bad or not). I will say what I said in the kitana thread, if u dnt want to deal with ur character then keep them as a backup because they could save u in a future tournament (evo 2012 for me with scorpion haha)

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Aye man, whatever, haha. I'm not here to get into a debate over Takeda. I read the post, decided to put some time into a character that I haven't played yet with the focus of filling these holes and that's what I did, in like thirty minutes. But next time I'll just on the side lines and watch the salt for a good laugh rather than put in minimal effort with the intention of helping.

This isn't salt, if that's what you were thinking. But if you're going to present what you believe is a solution, you should be open to hearing from the people who have already tried said solution in various contexts about what the pitfalls are.

You don't want to just walk into a character forum where people have been labbing and training for weeks, and say "I fixed your problem" without trying it against real opponents, drop the mic, and walk away. Be ready to discuss it.

It's all part of the healthy discourse surrounding a fighting game

 

[PPJ]

the problem with takeda are his players who don't actually know what a real "low tier" is like

 

[gpmoney]

The scrubs who can't beat takeda are crying more than the "scrub" takeda players.

 

[gpmoney]

lol The "solutions" people who do not play takeda come up with have either already been thought of or are just.... stupid hahaha. You know why that is? Because the character variation was developed so bad that he is limited to the same dumb shit.

 

[Error Macro]

Sonya needs a buff at her military stance moves tho.

 

[SEV]

This isn't salt, if that's what you were thinking. But if you're going to present what you believe is a solution, you should be open to hearing from the people who have already tried said solution in various contexts about what the pitfalls are.

You don't want to just walk into a character forum where people have been labbing and training for weeks, and say "I fixed your problem" without trying it against real opponents, drop the mic, and walk away. Be ready to discuss it.

It's all part of the healthy discourse surrounding a fighting game

You're not understanding what I'm saying man. First off we cool, wasn't referring to your posts as salt, mainly referring to the thread in general because I'm pretty sure there have been multiple threads like this in the Takeda forum in the past week since Art lost to Coach Steve's B1. Not exactly sure what I'm walking away from though.

But read my prior post, then Zyphox's reply, then my post. He said my point that his tools are strong against players without meter wasn't valid because people always have meter vs Takeda. I'll take his word for it, although I think it's a bad point to disregard, regardless.

So let's assume they have meter, his point is that they will always armor through the Kunai. I found the teleport shenanigans. Now if this has already been found and disregarded, I don't understand why no one stated that, or took the time to say why it doesn't work. You say I should be open to hearing why it doesn't work from players who have taken it to the lab, but you seem to be the only person who acknowledged my post, and you certainly didn't say why it doesn't work.

He made a point, I made a point to his point. You said his point meant something else. I said whatever, my point was to his point verbatim, I'm gonna walk away rather than argue to points I'm not making. Not sure why you try to give a pithy response. But it's ironic that your point is that I didn't understand his post despite the fact that I took it literally when, according to you, I should have inferred something else, and that you don't understand my posts, even though they should have been pretty clear if you took them literally, maybe you were inferring something else, haha. But again we cool, not trying to start a back and forth over nothing.

 

[ruff321]

the game seems pretty balanced so far.

Thanks I needed a good chuckle

 

[SUBMARCOS]

Yep that's why I had to abort Takeda. I found all of this out days ago.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Not until Dhalsim has the fastest normals in the game

but sim has that yoga flame shit and he has a few decent normals from point blank. its just on wakeup he has jack shit and get destroyed about midrange or so

 

[st9rm]

there will be an offline qualifier for a tourney in paris this sunday
i will win this shit with takeda, and show you guys, how he's supposed to be played.
if i don't win, ignore this post :*

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

As a day one takeda main with tournament level experience I believe I get a say in this.

First off, do not compare takeda to dhalsim, they are not alike whatsoever. Dhalsim keeps you at bay with mid hitting normals and zones you with slow fire ball and teleport shenanigans into true block strings. Dhalsim is not a burst damage character and doesn't need aggression to play his neutral. Basically what I'm getting at.. dhalsim is based around fear of normals, takeda is based around gaining respect.

Do I believe takeda is bad? More so than kitana, but I don't play her so idk. What I do believe though, is that takeda is deserving of a few buffs.

What kills me, is that players will believe the game is perfect, knowing its not. Knowing a patch is eminent, and trying whatever they can to stop it from happening. Let's be real though, no game and no character is perfect and mkx is no exception. Takeda is not a perfect character, neither is Quan Chi or KJ. In order to have a perfect balance, every character must be of equal caliber. thats what we all want right?

Now seeing as I only play takeda, here's what I feel about him.

He gains all his damage from mix ups, which are slow and can be reacted. He has options to demand respect, but those are all easily punishable as well.

He thrives in the mid to full screen range, but has a streamline set of moves which makes him predictable
and just clunky all around.

He is the only character in the game I feel that loses advantage from having a cornered opponent.

Breakers on either side leave takeda screwed.

Rather leave opponents standing, but has no options to do so without sacrificing full combo damage.

No pokes up close, not even one. Except maybe d2 which pretty much has 0 horizontal range.

Has no "true" pressure. I mean seriously, takeda gets maybe one string or normal and its the opponents turn.

There is good with him though..

While hes quite punishable he has good ways to keep opponents guessing. No really on the mix up but more on a punish in which takeda can bait for big damage.

He can convert stray hits into decent damage.

His ex kunai is perfect for ground control and regaining respect.

He can anti air from ridiculous ranges on reads and sometimes reactions.

His unbreakable damage is decent as well.

All in all i think one fast poke and always armor on ex teleport could make all the difference for this character. Also true block strings into kunai would help alot.

I'm not here to theory fight so if u disagree with anything I said please don't put it into some situational virtual reality training simulator. It's only my opinion.

 

[ryublaze]

Technically @Zyphox is right... but i don't think he's as bad as what some people are making him out to be.

Jumping out of b21 kunai - From what i've tested you can only jump out at max b2 range. If you think theyre going to jump forward you could tele cancel and anti-air them.

b2/b3 Mix-up - Not sure if this is reactable, his b2 is 24 frames but if theyre trying to react to it you have other options like throw, delay your timing or stance switch to throw them off.

Reptile's Slide - b21 kunai trades with slide his 8% for your 7%, except he just used a bar of meter b21 tele cancel depends on distance when he can punish it, if he misjudges the distance then he's eating full combo.

To add on to Zyphox's post:
If you still aren't familiar with how to get out of his "pressure", his f122+4 string (the one that ends with an overhead) just simply block the 3rd hit low then armor out. He can't tele cancel to block in time so that string is completely unsafe if you have meter. There is no "mix-up" between kunai and the overhead.
EDIT: Some characters actually can't armor out of the string, but they can still armor out of kunai.

Jump punch into 50/50: his b2 and b3 are so slow unless he lands a really deep jump 2, you can armor out of it. And after getting hit by a kunai (especially in the corner) you can armor out.

On wake-up: Takeda's teleport is so slow you can check him with a poke and still block his wake-ups in time and punish.

It seems to me like most people don't know how this character works or they don't know the match-up. I think he's good but he has a lot of problems as shown in this thread. People saying Ronin or Lasher are the way to go, idk I've tried them all and I definitely think Shirai Ryu outclasses them.

4. every special move besides Kunai is punishable on block and whiff across all variations except MB blade call.

MB blade call is punishable too lol.

5. This is false. B21 spear is not interruptable. You can also mix up your pressure between b21 kunai, b2 kunai, b11 kunai, b1 kunai etc. Most of them are interruptable but if they are looking to interrupt after b21 they will get hit by the b2 kunai. You can also always throw out EX kunai to beat out armor and jumps like I said earlier.

They can option select armor out of b2 kunai or b21 kunai. Just input your armor and you'll either block the string or armor out. Not really a mix-up...

A lot of Raptors pressure was that B2,1~kunai, B2~kunai, B2,1 into tele....I wish i had labbed this before playing Raptor. I would have destroyed him knowing there is a gap.

 

[Cage Redfield]

i mean ronin's quick call makes a lot of his pressure + on block or at least even/not punishable. F122+4 or F12+4 with blade down forces the opponent to respect it since you can cancel the first hit and break their armor attempts. Also, have you checked the range on standing 2/b1? It's not a whip slamming onto the floor from full screen but still decent as far as a ranged normal goes. F2 is also pretty good due to his forward movement. EN Shirai Ryu Kan is a solid wakeup too. The only really bad thing about this variation imo is the damage output, but that's totally fine.

 

[RYX]

i got bodied by redraptor10 in the first 4 matches i played vs a takeda ever in a KOTH

so i think my opinion is valid when i say that he's too good right now

doombawkz can attest to my suffering at the hands of this overpowered menace who teleported so fast he could fuck my face and ass at the same time

 

[ripcrowley]

i got bodied by redraptor10 in the first 4 matches i played vs a takeda ever in a KOTH

so i think my opinion is valid when i say that he's too good right now

doombawkz can attest to my suffering at the hands of this overpowered menace who teleported so fast he could fuck my face and ass at the same time

Your not going to learn the matchups in 4 koth matchs. Once people learn pressure and gimmicks it becomes alot harder for the takeda player to win. Unless your just trollin right now lol