General/Other - Takeda The Problem With Takeda.

[Name v.5.0]

Also, do you talk to @RedRaptor10 ? His Takeda is god like.

A lot of Raptors pressure was that B2,1~kunai, B2~kunai, B2,1 into tele....I wish i had labbed this before playing Raptor. I would have destroyed him knowing there is a gap.

 

[DubiousShenron]

Reptile main here and I can say, "Takeda is free". If he does b12xxKunai reptile can blow up b12 at any distance with elbow dash if he blocks and b12xxkuniai isnt a block string so you can still elbow dash through it. The only way for takeda to stop this is by making a read and throwing the ground kunai right at this feet after b12, but its still a huge risk because he is still gonna eat elbow dash if reptile blocks and the kunai misses.

i find other character to struggle more than takeda currently, but he doesnt seem to hot either. Stick with the character

 

[haketh]

Like yeah the character has problems that should be looked at but what are viable solutions that don't tip him into being a complete monster who dominates the midrange & people never get in?

 

[HomeLee1121]

I mean i hate pulling this card, but i would like some of you to pick him up. Not so that it can prove everything we're saying here is right...maybe you guys know something we don't.

We're all trying to learn, please...be my guest and pick up takeda. Educate me on how its done.

 

[Name v.5.0]

@Zyphox

I'm fairly certain some characters can also bask dash the kunai in B2,1~kunai, and then punish the whiff. (e.g. Raidens superman, Loo Kang's fly kick)

 

[Zyphox]

To be fair, Takeda is not that slow. At least he faster then Goro, Feera/Torr, and Shinnok. Don't get me wrong Takeda can get punish almost everything in the game but I don't think he bad as a character to be honest. @Zyphox you are a good Takeda player arguably the best Takeda in the world but I just can't see Takeda be one of the worst characters in the games however. You should try out his other two variations.

goro has a 5 frame d1 good sir, movement wise he isn't as slow as goro but goro has faster normals, thats a fact. and i've tried all his variations. some are good for certain MU's. against sorcerer Quan Chi Ronin is godlike because sword call back destroys the armor rune quan puts on himself, lasher is good against kano and Sub zero because of faster and safer armor, trust me i've tried them all.

 

[Zyphox]

I mean i hate pulling this card, but i would like some of you to pick him up. Not so that it can prove everything we're saying here is right...maybe you guys know something we don't.

We're all trying to learn, please...be my guest and pick up takeda. Educate me on how its done.

this times 10000000

 

[SaJa]

To me Takeda is fine (everyone needs weaknesses), they just need to nerf the strongest characters to make it balanced.

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

Oh, you mean like how Black Adam was considered "low tier" and "Bottom 5" in the beginning of Injustice because he had "no low starter and a weak toolset"?

The hardest thing to do in predictions is declare a character weak before all is discovered.

I can't say much for the other characters but I have been constantly trying to find tech with kenshi, I'm trying to find that magic piece of tech to make him godlike, I still haven't given up on him, but as of right now, he sucks. I won't suggest anyone go near him until someone figures out that magic tech with him, maybe I will find out, maybe pig will, maybe immortal will, maybe darksyde will, but as of right now it is looking grim, as I said I can only truly speak on behalf of kenshi since I have the most experience with him since he is my main, I am just going off the word of many others for the other characters I listed, I don't know enough about Takeda to say anything about him other than I suspect zyphox may be right, that is a big maybe, my conclusion is there, but it may not be accurate, trust me I want kenshi to have that magic tech to boost him up as much as the next guy, but right now it is looking grim. Hell as I type this I'm in the lab with kenshi trying to find something to make him good

 

[J1gabyte]

He is the perfect online character though lol

what makes you say that?

 

[RunwayMafia]

A lot of Raptors pressure was that B2,1~kunai, B2~kunai, B2,1 into tele....I wish i had labbed this before playing Raptor. I would have destroyed him knowing there is a gap.

I just recently played his lightsaber variation...wow.

 

[SEV]

I hear that you're saying, but your complaints are that you can get blown up by armor if your opponent has meter and you knowingly do an unsafe move. The whole cast is in that boat.

Let's say he gets the faster D1, but what if it becomes full combo punishable on block like Raiden's(-11). If they were both punishable on block, would it not be better to still use the D2 anyways? It does more damage puts some distance between you and your opponent to where Takeda wants to be.

All this started with the fact that Takeda can't escape Kano's B1. Midscreen it turned out not to be true, although the corner is definitely a problem still. But what top player is going to spam B1 and not actually go for damage at some point off something else.

Slow buttons in general are a problem too, I get you, but that's your character it seems. You can teleport, and have strings that take up 3/4's of the screen, your game should be lacking up close.

Takeda doesn't seem like shit tier so far to me, he just has issues where he definitely should, by design, so I don't know if he needs to change.

You still could be right overall though, but maybe the match ups that give you the most trouble are meant to be played in a different variation.

 

[WakeUp DP]

lol you just make everything so simple huh? i bet you are that type of person like "isn't life full of ups and downs and lefts and rights? you just got to work hard to get where you want to go, and always have a back up plan, but for the love of god stop crying about your (insert problem here), everyone goes through things like this.

I love Subz & Nightwolf back in MK9 I dropped them for Lao.

Now in MKX I dropped Lao for Subz & Kung Jin cause they seem solid period.

 

[Zyphox]

To me Takeda is fine (everyone needs weaknesses), they just need to nerf the strongest characters to make it balanced.

so weakness at all ranges for being super unsafe? i dont agree with that, dont nerf characrters just buff the bad characters, that way top tier characters dont feel like they got fucked over.

 

[Zyphox]

I hear that you're saying, but your complaints are that you can get blown up by armor if your opponent has meter and you knowingly do an unsafe move. The whole cast is in that boat.

Let's say he gets the faster D1, but what if it becomes full combo punishable on block like Raiden's(-11). If they were both punishable on block, would it not be better to still use the D2 anyways? It does more damage puts some distance between you and your opponent to where Takeda wants to be.

All this started with the fact that Takeda can't escape Kano's B1. Midscreen it turned out not to be true, although the corner is definitely a problem still. But what top player is going to spam B1 and not actually go for damage at some point off something else.

Slow buttons in general are a problem too, I get you, but that's your character it seems. You can teleport, and have strings that take up 3/4's of the screen, your game should be lacking up close.

Takeda doesn't seem like shit tier so far to me, he just has issues where he definitely should, by design, so I don't know if he needs to change.

You still could be right overall though, but maybe the match ups that give you the most trouble are meant to be played in a different variation.

i get you but lets focus on what you said at first, if they don't have meter, dude you start with one bar in this game and meter building especially on takeda is easy. i can accept the weakness up close, if they holes in his mid range game were covered up, i have no problem with that anymore, but the fact that its super easy to get through means he doesn't even have a strength mid screen and farther because its unsafe.

 

[Braindead]

At least he faster then Goro, Feera/Torr, and Shinnok

Shinnok is slow? A 5-frame d1, 6-frame uppercut, 6-frame low starter, 9-frame standing 1 is slow?

 

[zaf]

1. Stop yelling at me
2. I said pre-release that Takeda's slow start-ups are going to make him mid level at best. Idk why people don't listen to me. I also said KJ would be top 5.
3. Yeah, there are like 2 characters without glaring holes when I play vs them. They are KJ and Sonya. Lol

Sonya has a hole in her string b1 Here 4......

 

[Zoidberg747]

he doesn't have a f33, just f3, is 11 frames start up that leads to just a knockdown. and just like i said in the OP i have the option to do b21 tele cancel and be safe against most of the cast (reptile punishes for free regardless). a smart opponent won't armor every time, just look at my match with CDjr, he waited till it was necessary to do it, and it was in a crucial moment. i still think that if it jailed into kunai it would be much more viable of a tool, you can still run and jump any follow up b21 after wards if you read it so its not braindead, after getting hit with kunai you can armor through the follow up b21 also, so they have options. that or make takeda faster up close but possibly making ronin variation a lot better and possibly broken.

A knockdown i pretty great in this game so that shouldnt be a negative. I usually get the knockdown then backdash and go into b21 pressure.

That just sounds like he made the correct read. Plus like you said he has a safe option. Now that Im in training mode let me respond to your points

1. This is true. IMO he should have an 8f d1 like the rest of the cast. That would be my only "buff" suggestion.
3. This is also true, but Lasher pretty much makes up for it by having 3 really good wakeups.
4. True but you shouldnt be whiffing or getting those moves blocked up close. Making those moves plus or even neutral would mean he could just throw them out whenever. They could maybe make them less negative though.
5. This is false. B21 spear is not interruptable. You can also mix up your pressure between b21 kunai, b2 kunai, b11 kunai, b1 kunai etc. Most of them are interruptable but if they are looking to interrupt after b21 they will get hit by the b2 kunai. You can also always throw out EX kunai to beat out armor and jumps like I said earlier.

There is no doubt that he isnt top tier in the current state of the game. However, to say he is on the same level as kenshi or kitana is not true(Dont think you said that so not directed at you personally). Hes a mid tier character that has problems, but I think he has some potential as well. I still enjoy playing as him even though I use Dvorah in tourney.

Edit:

Sonya has a hole in her string b1 Here 4......

Sonya has holes in a majority of her pressure actually.

 

[Dirtylova]

lol

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

Sonya has a hole in her string b1 Here 4......

Does she? Well that makes life easier.

The More You Know

 

[PrimeTimeKing]

Hey Ziphox. Dont want to rain on your parade but lets say you do b1,2 kunai. Jax does armor for 10% or 19% Then he has no armor and you can do this infinite ammount of times. Also if you do the telecancel. He wastes his meter and now Takeda is suddenly really good. Just be smart about it

 

[zaf]

Does she? Well that makes life easier.

The More You Know

Yes she does

Her b14 string is annoying as hell. Overhead Low.
In the variant she has, I think special ops ? The one with parry and military stance
she can do b14 Military stance into overhead low or command grab
So it is tricky to block at first

Overhead low, into low low
Overhead low, into grab
overhead low, into overhead.

But you can backdash or armor as soon as she does b1 and avoid all of that non sense....

 

[RunwayMafia]

Yes she does

Her b14 string is annoying as hell. Overhead Low.
In the variant she has, I think special ops ? The one with parry and military stance
she can do b14 Military stance into overhead low or command grab
So it is tricky to block at first

Overhead low, into low low
Overhead low, into grab
overhead low, into overhead.

But you can backdash or armor as soon as she does b1 and avoid all of that non sense....

Wait...you can backdash after her B14? The overhead, low? I can back dash before the military stance mix ups??????

 

[Zyphox]

Hey Ziphox. Dont want to rain on your parade but lets say you do b1,2 kunai. Jax does armor for 10% or 19% Then he has no armor and you can do this infinite ammount of times. Also if you do the telecancel. He wastes his meter and now Takeda is suddenly really good. Just be smart about it

but then he's in your face and your slow, there is always a counter argument. with how fast characters are in this game and the range they have one dash punch is all he needs, no need to simplify my options, in a real match against a top player, all they need is that one dash punch to make takeda life a living hell. and trust me i would not have beaten brady saturday if i wasnt smart about it, i make takeda work, but sooner or later he will fall and i want to avoid that.

 

[haketh]

but then he's in your face and your slow, there is always a counter argument. with how fast characters are in this game and the range they have one dash punch is all he needs, no need to simplify my options, in a real match against a top player, all they need is that one dash punch to make takeda life a living hell. and trust me i would not have beaten brady saturday if i wasnt smart about it, i make takeda work, but sooner or later he will fall and i want to avoid that.

That's just how these characters work in FGs man, it's true across all of them. Takeda just needs stronger midscreen options to make the upclose weakness worth it like you've said.