"You're Fired!" -- Joker General Discussion Thread

[Fromundaman]

@Qwark28 and @Gilbagz
Thought on d2 consistently AAing?
I feel that it's insanely variable, as I whiff it all the time even when I make good reads and on reaction even when the crowbar seemingly passes through the opposing character, and it makes me punch myself in the head with great vigor (just ask @DarthArma, @Frantastic23, and @Abbneto). But there does seem to be some disagreement here, so it might just be my meta using characters that get around it's aerial hitbox easier than others, so we should probably talk about it in more detail. It'll help inform what I say about it in the guide video (piecing it together when I find the time!).

Well, I know you play against Batman and WW, both of which jump over our D2, requiring us to delay it (I don't even try to AA Batman with D2 anymore since while possible, the timing for it to beat Batman's ji2 is ridiculous and it's easier to just j1 him). Other characters I know from the top of my head that do are BA, DS and all airdash characters (But if you wait until the AD ends then D2, it will beat out all AD characters' falling aerials, except probably traited martian). Some of these characters can be AA'd with D2 on reaction, but require specific timings, some cannot be AA'd with D2 (Deathstroke I think and probably traited martian; not sure who else) and others still require a really strict timing (Like Batman) that's not really practical.


On the other hand, characters like Raven, all the large characters, Harley Quinn, BG and Shazam are easy as hell to AA with D2 and can often be done on reaction.

Characters like GL, CW and NW can be AA'd with D2 fairly easily, but the truth of the matter is they will rarely ever allow you to do so.



That said, against characters who CAN'T jump over it and can't easily outrange it, that move is a cancelable long-range wall that can AA if they tried to leave the ground.


Fun fact: You can knock MMH out of OH teleport with D2 for a full combo, but the timing is ridiculous to the point I doubt we will ever see it done in a tournament ever.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

His d2 does work as an aa, but it can by no means used on reaction
Different characters have diff aa timings as well which messes it up heaps
Against characters with floaty jumps its godlike
But for batman, It works, but there is a specific window, too early and it whiffs completely, too late and it gets beat out
I gotta lab it to find the proper timing. I'm like you lol, constantly whiffing it cuz im pressing it too early (crowbar appears to through him)
But against batman its always a risk trying to aa anyway cuz he can alter his jump arc with the float and punish the whiffed d2 with dive kick, and if you delay the d2 waiting for the float the standard j2 will beat out the d2. It might just be better to dash under jumps and take the free jump into pressure.

Idk I just really feel afraid when trying to aa batman.

Yeah this I more or less agree with. I need to start working on chilling out and just reacting to stuff. I play much better that way, but for some reason I always end up jumping all over the place and getting my back blown out because it super readable.

 

[rehti]

Yeah this I more or less agree with. I need to start working on chilling out and just reacting to stuff. I play much better that way, but for some reason I always end up jumping all over the place and getting my back blown out because it super readable.

What is going on with the BREAK? They are no longer on twitch I think which sucks because I always loved to see the casual as it is the only way I can see you in action LOL. No but for real, is it still recorded somewhere? Youtube only shows the final matches.

 

[Qwark28]

What is going on with the BREAK? They are no longer on twitch I think which sucks because I always loved to see the casual as it is the only way I can see you in action LOL. No but for real, is it still recorded somewhere? Youtube only shows the final matches.

hitbox.tv I think

 

[StevoSuprem0]

What is going on with the BREAK? They are no longer on twitch I think which sucks because I always loved to see the casual as it is the only way I can see you in action LOL. No but for real, is it still recorded somewhere? Youtube only shows the final matches.

Hmmm. I'm actually not sure. They streamed everything when it was live, but I did notice Jaxel just uploading everything individually to youtube rather than just letting it be in the stream archive. Regardless, I didn't have anything on stream this week. I keep playing in MK in addition to Injustice just fuck around and it ROYALLY fucks me up lol. I start holding the trigger to block for a least a round, and pretty much instantly go down 1-0 and have to try to battle back. I'm gonna start recording any casuals that we can organize outside of the Break, and will be posting that for you guys to check out when that happens.

EDIT: Yup, Qwark is right, Jaxel is checking out hitbox.tv. Not sure how the archiving works for that, but all the stream stuff should be on youtube (matches at least).
http://testyourmight.com/threads/the-break-weekly-245-is-now-live.41323/

 

[Qwark28]

Guys found some interesting stuff
I think Cat mentioned something about this before, but just putting it out there.
3,2,3 acid flower has a stance specific pushback.
So far only tested this against a few characters, but there are some stance specific character specific frame traps.
On Superman for example, when you are in a closed stance, (i.e. both you and superman have the same foot leading. E.g. Superman is facing towards the screen, and you are facing away from the screen), 3,2,3 acid flower into b+1 does connect if b+1 is done as a just frame.

Probably not viable, and may not actually be based on open and closed stances. Could just relate to the direction each character is facing.

Anyways prob not that big.

One funny glitch I found too is after doing ji2 3,2,3 acid flower into b1. Joker's knife literally flies out of his hand and does a circle back into his hand. Nothing major just looks funny.
I did this on Atlantis practice mode against Superman, Aquaman and Joker.
It seems to only happen when you do b1 at the first possible frame after 3,2,3 acid flower.
Try it out, looks stupid as hell as the knife will fly out of his hand and circle around before going back to his hand.

On a more serious note.
2,1,2 into ex rlg is a true safe jump. Superman's 2 frame super cannot interrupt the ji2 attempt. It will whiff and you will reset, but you will not be punished
Same with my current new bnb
[opener] ex rlg b3 d2 far teeth j2 far teeth 2 acid flower. They can block the teeth after being dropped onto the teeth from the 2 acid flower. This is a safe jump. Again I could not be punished by superman's super or lex's corps charge.
Gives Joker a good way to maintain a continuous offense during combos.
Does 38% + the mix up (non existant mix up? At least you get a 2,1,2 mind game)
Or if they dont block the reset you can get and addition 30% from ji2 3,2 acid flower.
You can potentially get an additional 37% if you do b3 ji3 3,2 acid flower but the b3 can be interrupted after they block the teeth.
You could possibly condition them to block it by taking the guaranteed b+1 after blocking the teeth but if you read they are going to block, I think it would just be better to take the ji2.
Some things to note though is the timing on ji2 differs between characters based on crouching hitboxes.

quoting to check when home

 

[StevoSuprem0]

quoting to check when home

Yeah the BnB that he mentions (ending in 2 xx flower on teeth for a reset attempt) is the one I've been using. It's pretty good. Gives you a safe jump if they block, so ALWAYS follow with an immediate jump. If they get reset, I do j2 j2 f23 crowbar or f232 flower depending on location/meter. You can also use that new d2 xx crowbar fast restand into the teeth thing as mixup here, since you will have trained them to hold down. This is gonna be my new go to midscreen BnB I think, with the 213 ender still in my pocket.

 

[Qwark28]

Yeah the BnB that he mentions (ending in 2 xx flower on teeth for a reset attempt) is the one I've been using. It's pretty good. Gives you a safe jump if they block, so ALWAYS follow with an immediate jump. If they get reset, I do j2 j2 f23 crowbar or f232 flower depending on location/meter. You can also use that new d2 xx crowbar fast restand into the teeth thing as mixup here, since you will have trained them to hold down. This is gonna be my new go to midscreen BnB I think, with the 213 ender still in my pocket.

I wouldn't give up the knockdown, potential crowbar, damage and wallcarry in that combo for anyone outside of Bane and DD.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

I wouldn't give up the knockdown, potential crowbar, damage and wallcarry in that combo for anyone outside of Bane and DD.

If they block you get pretty equivalent damage and wall carry off of chipping them out. Bane is actually one I would probably still do 213 on when he's venum'd because he can just armor through the jump in and I'd rather make space. KD/crowbar are still preserved in this, as you get literally both of those out of one option and big advantage out of the other.

 

[Qwark28]

If they block you get pretty equivalent damage and wall carry off of chipping them out. Bane is actually one I would probably still do 213 on when he's venum'd because he can just armor through the jump in and I'd rather make space. KD/crowbar are still preserved in this, as you get literally both of those out of one option and big advantage out of the other.

If this is truly a safejump then he shouldn't be able to.

You're cutting a combo short and all the potential mixups and mindgames after that knockdown just to check them with teeth and get a 212 teeth setup, I'd apply it in different matchups.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

I'd apply it in different matchups.

Pretty much what I'm saying, so agreed.
By safe jump, I meant they can't really punish us for it. They are still able to backdash I believe, but ji3 instead of ji2 catches it I think? Can't remember.

 

[rehti]

Good job Steevo at the break this week. Only set I've seen tho is you vs Rico which you managed to get a win. Those Ji2 killed you so hard....

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Good job Steevo at the break this week. Only set I've seen tho is you vs Rico which you managed to get a win. Those Ji2 killed you so hard....

Lol thanks man. Yeah it's a tough fight, especially against Rico. I'm starting to experiment with some new ways to approach it. Still need to level up as a player though.

 

[OnlineRon91]

Rico has the fundamentals down pact coming from SF so he might have the more experience but by no means can you not catch up
I have to check what trains (if any) leave me close by the break so I can check it out sometime.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Rico has the fundamentals down pact coming from SF so he might have the more experience but by no means can you not catch up
I have to check what trains (if any) leave me close by the break so I can check it out sometime.

There is a station literally across the street I think lol. I can always help out if it's a little farther and pick you up or something.

 

[OnlineRon91]

That's awesome! I only been to Jersey like twice by car and I never saw stations or anything.
-
I been thinking of compiling a list of anti-vertical wake up teeth setups (quite a mouthful). For example, doing 212 xx Teeth vs. a Scorpion player who just loves to wake-up teleport punch, or an overconfident Doomsday who thinks venom beats everything. The setup is safe even if they see it coming. I've done Scorpion as an example :

vs Scorpion
Teleport Punch : Close Teeth, Any Teeth -> Forward Dash
MB Teleport Punch: Close Teeth, Any Teeth -> Forward Dash
Leg Takedown~ : Mid Teeth -> Forward Dash*
Welcome to the Netherrealm : Any Teeth -> Forward Dash

~Any Teeth alone also catches Leg Takedown but since our opponents know Leg Takedown cant clip The Joker from that distance, it is not worth noting.
*Close/Far Teeth causes both characters to fall

Now do we really have to memorize all these different Teeth variations for the wakeup we "think" he will do for just one character? Not really. By looking at all the wakeups you can see that Mid Teeth -> Forward Dash covers all four. The only other invincible wakeup we are missing is Flip Kick. We wont be in Flip Kicks range so they wont do it unless they're stupid, and if they are then just clip them with BANG!

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Lol there is way too much to memorize with this character

 

[OnlineRon91]

Pfft no it isn't! just remember that you can use Mid Teeth -> Forward Dash against Scorpions who like to wakeup teleport or leg takedown. IDK which scorpion wakes up super lol but thats covered too!

EDIT: MB Teleport is covered.

 

[KonDcnT]

What is everyone's feelings about the hot fix on push block setups? Just saw pig's thread, haven't been able to see exactly how it applies to joker as far as damage scaling, juggle scaling, etc. Just seeing if anyone has had a chance to explore it.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

I tested everything. We lose the damage on the pushblock setup and whatever we do to follow it up, but we can still convert into a BGB or get them towards the corner. It's not the worst thing in the world if they keep it like this, but it's still a pretty big deal that the damage is gone.

 

[OnlineRon91]

Pack it up guys.

 

[KonDcnT]

@StevoSuprem0 Just saw what you posted on pig's thread. Hopefully they will fine tune everything to maybe give us some buffs if this push block thing sticks with the joker. I can't help to feel like we got the shaft. I can see a lot of match ups sliding more out of joke's favor. Not gonna lie I'm a little bummed.

 

[KonDcnT]

All that tech discovered by you guys and all my hours trying to grind it out down the drain.

 

[OG Mannimal]

I'm sorry for your loss, Joker players.

 

[KonDcnT]

Oh well, back to the lab guys. I