Yeah, I remember foreverking jr and Mr. Aquaman too using some of those in some footage of them I've seen. Didn't know if he had any kind of fast overhead threat though.
As for the d2 discussion, I think I've just been too trained not to abuse it by my usual training partners. Flash and GL are very capable of punishing it >.>
I would also add that you have to be VERY precise on the spacing when using it against Superman, because he can f23 you if he is even a little bit inside of max range, though following with flower protects you I think.
Actually it's heavily abusable against Supes. At max range it's a safe teeth cancel, and when he's closer D2-flower keeps him in blockstun and close teeth cancel allows you to punish him if he tries to punish you with F23.
We get about 21% into a crowbar.
Joker doesn't really have much execution requirements IMO, everything he has is pretty straightforward, the main thing with what I'm saying is that we outrange him with B2 while being just a bit slower. We can keep him out and from max range it's not like he can punish D2, we really don't need to be so pessimistic when we finally see what we can see and possibly excel at.
I agree on all of this except the high execution part. Joker has some of the toughest execution in the game IMO. Every other character I have played/messed with is easy by comparison.
Teeth loops are not easy, nor are some of the stupider corner resets.
Admittedly, a lot of his other stuff is actually really easy, but he has a mix of easy and hard as fuck execution.
As for Ares, I actually looked into him a lot a while back when a friend started picking him up.
Yes he has a standing overhead (I think it's B2?) that combos into stuff meterless with or without trait. For his D1 low starter, he does need trait, but can still get decent meterless damage. This allows him to keep his meter for MB teleports, MB godsmack and MB projectile (And the occasional MB Invisibility which makes mixups retarded), which give him good zoning and and mixups.
Every MB teleport leads into a safe 50/50, or a full combo if used to punish something.
The rising sword traits is a godlike anti-air that allows for meterless combos.
9 second recharge on trait isn't shit. You burn 4 of them in the combo, then you can just projectile until one comes back. Hell, if you used the sword in the combo you can end in the projectile to put them full screen then throw the axe at their wakeup and that eats up the entire recharge pretty much.
I'm not saying Ares is godlike or anything, but he's definitely not bad.
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