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"You're Fired!" -- Joker General Discussion Thread

The PantyChrist

The PantyChrist

Rest in Pantiez
Hhhmm I've noticed on the asylums if you throw teeth and then the face the opponent can get hit and then launch. Not sure if this is viable on match or not but it could also possibly be applied to the space urchin on fortress of solitude
 
StevoSuprem0

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
The_PantyChrist said:
Hhhmm I've noticed on the asylums if you throw teeth and then the face the opponent can get hit and then launch. Not sure if this is viable on match or not but it could also possibly be applied to the space urchin on fortress of solitude
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You can do stuff like that if your opponent tends to back off when you throw teeth. If they rush you, though, they will likely be able to stop the interactable and potentially open you up. I'd say it's all about making the right read. Make them respect the option by pushblocking them onto teeth or something like that if they like to rush you.
 
The PantyChrist

The PantyChrist

Rest in Pantiez
So we've been doing a lot of corner work. I'm kinda curious about the f21 string or maybe it's just a dead end. It says 21 frame adv. an is untechable. However I wonder if this is from standing position and if say, after b3 j2 f21 we would get slightly more advantage to set something up. Just a thought though and seeing if you guys can come up with something. Some days it feels like a dead end an others I think it may have potential
 
Gilbagz

Gilbagz

Joker here~
The_PantyChrist said:
So we've been doing a lot of corner work. I'm kinda curious about the f21 string or maybe it's just a dead end. It says 21 frame adv. an is untechable. However I wonder if this is from standing position and if say, after b3 j2 f21 we would get slightly more advantage to set something up. Just a thought though and seeing if you guys can come up with something. Some days it feels like a dead end an others I think it may have potential
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Yeah I used to use f2,1 as an ender in the first few weeks of injustice
the hard knockdown is nice (similar to the b1,3 knockdown in that it gives a free dash in cross over attempt against characters with bad vertical wake ups)
i don't really use it much anymore unless i drop a combo but need the hard knockdown
 
Fromundaman

Fromundaman

I write too much.
Well, to be perfectly fair, having played Max's Bane I think the goal has become "Let's prove that Joker is viable with secondaries", because I would rather hit myself over the head with a crowbar than play that matchup again XD
 
Fromundaman

Fromundaman

I write too much.
IDK... The matchup seems fine UNTIL he knocks us down... It seems like our post knockdown options are non-existent though.

God I wish our backdash actually went somewhere...
 
StevoSuprem0

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
For some reason I haven't gotten alerts from this thread.
I've been working on Bane a bit more. I'm starting to agree with Qwark a bit more, but I'm still saying it's no better than 6-4.
You just have to be SUPER lame with teeth and spacing. I live off of teeth into pushblock setups in that matchup, and if you can get him to the corner or a BGB off those, you can take him out pretty easily. I also still think parry usage is important. Flower is an ok wakeup against him if you see him going for those low starters or d2 when you're waking up. Parry is a good standup tool too.
However, yes, if he knocks you down, it sucks super hard and you have to make an insane read to get him back off you.
It's rough, but if you keep grinding it out it get's better.
 
KonDcnT

KonDcnT

KonDcnT
With Bane, all I can say is to keep teeth down and keep space between you two. Chip him with gun from far away and make sure you have teeth Down for when he charges. Block that shit and push him away. GGA Max has proven that once bane has you on the ground, you're his bitch. still wish joker could parry the charge. Starting to think than his jd3 should just get dashed under just like Doomsday' s. Fuck trying to anti-air with d2. Dash under it and go ham on the frame advantage. joker is starting to be feared on the high level play community. His damage output is ridiculous. Teeth, kinda like cyrax's bombs, are nice for insurance. I am starting to truly believe that NRS knew exactly why Mr. J stands where he is. Improve one or two aspects of his game and he is broke or op. Just my thoughts at the moment.
 
Fromundaman

Fromundaman

I write too much.
KonDcnT said:
With Bane, all I can say is to keep teeth down and keep space between you two. Chip him with gun from far away and make sure you have teeth Down for when he charges. Block that shit and push him away. GGA Max has proven that once bane has you on the ground, you're his bitch. still wish joker could parry the charge. Starting to think than his jd3 should just get dashed under just like Doomsday' s. Fuck trying to anti-air with d2. Dash under it and go ham on the frame advantage. joker is starting to be feared on the high level play community. His damage output is ridiculous. Teeth, kinda like cyrax's bombs, are nice for insurance. I am starting to truly believe that NRS knew exactly why Mr. J stands where he is. Improve one or two aspects of his game and he is broke or op. Just my thoughts at the moment.
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Am I the only one who consistently AAs with D2? I don't see how there's a problem there...

That said yeah, Joker is a hard character to balance because a few tweaks would make him ridiculous.
However, making his mids actually hit mid wouldn't break him :p


EDIT: Huh, no wonder Pig still hasn't played me... Ah well, guess I'll find out how bad the Zod MU is for my characters someday XD
 
KonDcnT

KonDcnT

KonDcnT
I just suck at timing it. Either I hit it too early and wiff or I hit too late and get stuffed. A lot of it probably has to do with online lag. You are right, d2 is a solid AA vs the splash. From my very limited experience with zod, a lot of people like to play the keep away/zone game and wait for trait. His back dash is pretty good, and instant zod balls are a pain. Some of pig's setups that I've seen online are filthy. I think a lot of Joker's matchups require more patience and extremely solid execution than the majority of the cast. Just my humble 2 cents.
 
StevoSuprem0

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
@Qwark28 and @Gilbagz
Thought on d2 consistently AAing?
I feel that it's insanely variable, as I whiff it all the time even when I make good reads and on reaction even when the crowbar seemingly passes through the opposing character, and it makes me punch myself in the head with great vigor (just ask @DarthArma, @Frantastic23, and @Abbneto). But there does seem to be some disagreement here, so it might just be my meta using characters that get around it's aerial hitbox easier than others, so we should probably talk about it in more detail. It'll help inform what I say about it in the guide video (piecing it together when I find the time!).
 
DarthArma

DarthArma

Noob
StevoSuprem0 said:
@Qwark28 and @Gilbagz
Thought on d2 consistently AAing?
I feel that it's insanely variable, as I whiff it all the time even when I make good reads and on reaction even when the crowbar seemingly passes through the opposing character, and it makes me punch myself in the head with great vigor (just ask @DarthArma, @Frantastic23, and @Abbneto). But there does seem to be some disagreement here, so it might just be my meta using characters that get around it's aerial hitbox easier than others, so we should probably talk about it in more detail. It'll help inform what I say about it in the guide video (piecing it together when I find the time!).
Click to expand...
im gonna film you next time you do it
 
The PantyChrist

The PantyChrist

Rest in Pantiez
One thing to consider is that not all characters have the same jump arc/ height, speed. Obviously Grundy/ lex / bane and doomie have floatier jumps but batman and lobo I've also noticed are in the air a long time and their jumps tend to cross up at a range when most others do not. I think it's just a matter of adjusting to each characters arc because I notice batman and lobo consistently get me when I d2 too early
 
StevoSuprem0

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
The_PantyChrist said:
One thing to consider is that not all characters have the same jump arc/ height, speed. Obviously Grundy/ lex / bane and doomie have floatier jumps but batman and lobo I've also noticed are in the air a long time and their jumps tend to cross up at a range when most others do not. I think it's just a matter of adjusting to each characters arc because I notice batman and lobo consistently get me when I d2 too early
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Yeah, it's this, but there is more too it. The Superman matchup is annoying sometimes because d2 will whiff on air dashes that are easily inside of the animation. It's super frustrating.
The_PantyChrist said:
Whiffing an AA or punching himself in the head?!?
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Dat second one.
 
Gilbagz

Gilbagz

Joker here~
StevoSuprem0 said:
@Qwark28 and @Gilbagz
Thought on d2 consistently AAing?
I feel that it's insanely variable, as I whiff it all the time even when I make good reads and on reaction even when the crowbar seemingly passes through the opposing character, and it makes me punch myself in the head with great vigor (just ask @DarthArma, @Frantastic23, and @Abbneto). But there does seem to be some disagreement here, so it might just be my meta using characters that get around it's aerial hitbox easier than others, so we should probably talk about it in more detail. It'll help inform what I say about it in the guide video (piecing it together when I find the time!).
Click to expand...
His d2 does work as an aa, but it can by no means used on reaction
Different characters have diff aa timings as well which messes it up heaps
Against characters with floaty jumps its godlike
But for batman, It works, but there is a specific window, too early and it whiffs completely, too late and it gets beat out
I gotta lab it to find the proper timing. I'm like you lol, constantly whiffing it cuz im pressing it too early (crowbar appears to through him)
But against batman its always a risk trying to aa anyway cuz he can alter his jump arc with the float and punish the whiffed d2 with dive kick, and if you delay the d2 waiting for the float the standard j2 will beat out the d2. It might just be better to dash under jumps and take the free jump into pressure.

Idk I just really feel afraid when trying to aa batman.
 
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