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Sonya - is she top 5 in your opinion?

Shady

Shady

Noob
Death said:
You lose all credibility when you say KL beats sonya. Play her right.
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I love how trying to have a discussion suddenly comes down to me losing credibility and over all not knowing the character in a completely hostile matter. Me taking my match-up experience and putting it out there AND suddenly people have to just come straight at me and attack me for "not playing the character right" or being an "online warrior" on MKU (I'm paraphrasing the last one but that was the gist of what he said. SHIT, maybe I got one match up wrong, maybe I just didn't have enough experience against that and just made the evaluation by looking at their respective tools without having much time to test it.

FYI, not for a second did I factor in ONLINE when talking about my perceived match-ups, and I did straight up admit that I might be wrong and might not be an expert. BUT, just because you decided it was great to attack my credibility... let me ask you this... when did you pick up Sonya? Because I've been playing the character since mid-summer before anyone even had the slightest idea about how good she was..... I believe that at some point gives me some say in her.....
 
16 Bit

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
You could also say Sonya may drop down when people get used to fighting her. Like I see no one punishing EX cartwheel. Blocked EX cartwheel into another EX cartwheel is NOT risk free.

People may eventually get better at punishing dive kick too. I was testing that recently and even the lowest possible one is much less safe then it seems. Kitana can always punish with 2,1. It's just an awkward animation and not much time to react. Same as Reptile dash.
 
D

Death

Noob
@ shady, i apologize if i come off hostile but when i see someone saying sonya loses to KL. Thats just crazy to me. Sonya is a known KL killer. I only bring up online because an online KL is very different then an online sonya. Yeah people can argue that sonya has safe dive kicks etc, But you can easily play sonya online like u do off. With that said, Online, sonyas 7frame jab does have a hard time punishing KL's -12 low hat on block. And you cant punish KL spin with B+21F+2..That punish right there will take half your life which leads to MS mixups. Also KL tele is hard as hell to punish online. Do you know how many times you try AA D+1 but tele 3 blows you up. KL is a different character offline and all the shit he does will get you blown up. Thats the only reason why I ever brought up online because online Sonya doesnt blow up KL as bad as off.

@ 16, i had no idea people did Two EX cartwheels in a row. Thats crazy lol
 
Shady

Shady

Noob
I just want to add this for the record, inb4thisgetsoutofhand. Death, I do not mean to come off as an asshole, but I was just trying to educate myself and get other people's opinions. I admitted fairly early on that I am no authority AND that I am not opposed to changing my mind through this discussion.

You made your points, but you also constantly came at me targeting me personally for some reason. I'm not the only person who thinks she's not top 5 just as you're not the only one who thinks she is... While we're having a discussion it's cool, but you pretty much came out and flat out said that I don't know how to play my own character and also that I've got no experience whats so ever (the online post on MKU once again). I bid no ill will towards you as long as we just continue this discussion pertaining to Sonya and not attack anyone's credibility or experience....
 
RTM2004

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
Osu 16 Bit said:
You could also say Sonya may drop down when people get used to fighting her. Like I see no one punishing EX cartwheel. Blocked EX cartwheel into another EX cartwheel is NOT risk free.

People may eventually get better at punishing dive kick too. I was testing that recently and even the lowest possible one is much less safe then it seems. Kitana can always punish with 2,1. It's just an awkward animation and not much time to react. Same as Reptile dash.
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Thanks for testing all ranges of Sonya's Dive Kick. I wanted to know if I can punish it and how bad I can be punished. =)
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
RTM2004 said:
I haven't played him but I've played xXBuryMeinBlackXx and his Freddy offense game is very good up close as well full screen. It's winnable but if the Freddy player wants to sit full screen with tossing gloves and ground spikes, lame... but it's super annoying. Up close they are both even, I never saw anyone played Freddy like him - it's very interesting. Still, the most annoying one for me is Kenshi, one push and you are at full screen trying to get back in again while getting slapped around *sighs*
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How are Freddy and Sonya even up close? That is absurd. Sonya has better pokes, mix ups, an armor move, a dive kick, a smaller hitbox, etc. etc. I believe I played the Freddy player on PSN before, and I think you guys are falling for a lot of gimmicks.
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
After browsing through this thread I just want to say I disagree with scorpion having no bad match ups (he has quite a few) and I don't think reptile beats kitana. Reptile will win against kitana if she tries to play the zoning game against him but if she comes in at him she has the advantage imo.

Sonya is a really strong character. She put's you in a guessing game that leads to a full combo if you block her launching special that already leads to a full combo. Her d+4 is amazing, has insane range and can be canceled into MS for a safe 50/50. I don't play her so I cant comment on her bad match ups but she is a very strong character.
 
SwiftTomHanks

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
Scoot Magee said:
After browsing through this thread I just want to say I disagree with scorpion having no bad match ups (he has quite a few) and I don't think reptile beats kitana. Reptile will win against kitana if she tries to play the zoning game against him but if she comes in at him she has the advantage imo.

Sonya is a really strong character. She put's you in a guessing game that leads to a full combo if you block her launching special that already leads to a full combo. Her d+4 is amazing, has insane range and can be canceled into MS for a safe 50/50. I don't play her so I cant comment on her bad match ups but she is a very strong character.
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Concerning Scorpion; I don't see how Scorpion could have anything better than a 5/5. Opps.. went off topic. Deal with it looool.
 
G4S KT

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
It's hard to say whether she's top 5. The game isn't old enough yet; people's top 5's change from day to day
 
Evil_Riu48

Evil_Riu48

Noob
the way i see it as of today sonya worst matchups are

kabal 4-6

kenshi 4-6

freddy ( i think this matchup will be her worst matchup in the future but how big is the dissadvantage for her ? i really do not know yet )

smoke 4-6 ( i know this is not clear yet but she has to be very carefull playing against a very smoke who knows how to zone and poke)

she really does not beat anyone in the cast badly but she is one of the hardest character to fight against because if you are facing a good sonya and you do not have a good ''poke game'' and air control it will be happy time for sonya because she will be able to do whatever she wants with you and this is why she is shinning

NOTE
she is 2 times better online so if more than 60% of your experience against this character comes from playing against her online you maybe over rating her and i am not talking about she having a safe divekick that is just a small part of what she can do online
 
Noserfatu

Noserfatu

My eyes! The goggles do nothing!
Scoot Magee said:
After browsing through this thread I just want to say I disagree with scorpion having no bad match ups (he has quite a few) and I don't think reptile beats kitana. Reptile will win against kitana if she tries to play the zoning game against him but if she comes in at him she has the advantage imo.

Sonya is a really strong character. She put's you in a guessing game that leads to a full combo if you block her launching special that already leads to a full combo. Her d+4 is amazing, has insane range and can be canceled into MS for a safe 50/50. I don't play her so I cant comment on her bad match ups but she is a very strong character.
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Scoot, I have to disagree with a few things. I think you may be biased when it comes to kitana v rep because you see CD play kitana all of the time. Kitana can't D1 in her normal D1 range because dash beats it, and when she gets knocked down she's effed.

With Sonya

"Sonya is a really strong character. She put's you in a guessing game that leads to a full combo if you block her launching special that already leads to a full combo. Her d+4 is amazing, has insane range and can be canceled into MS for a safe 50/50. I don't play her so I cant comment on her bad match ups but she is a very strong character"

D4 can't be canceled into the overhead throw from long distance because it will whiff. This only works up closer. Not sure what you're referring to when you say "she puts you in a guessing game that leads to a full combo." Could be looked at a few ways.. are you talking the guessing game in MS or dive kick / jip / poke?
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Noserfatu said:
Scoot, I have to disagree with a few things. I think you may be biased when it comes to kitana v rep because you see CD play kitana all of the time. Kitana can't D1 in her normal D1 range because dash beats it, and when she gets knocked down she's effed.

With Sonya

"Sonya is a really strong character. She put's you in a guessing game that leads to a full combo if you block her launching special that already leads to a full combo. Her d+4 is amazing, has insane range and can be canceled into MS for a safe 50/50. I don't play her so I cant comment on her bad match ups but she is a very strong character"

D4 can't be canceled into the overhead throw from long distance because it will whiff. This only works up closer. Not sure what you're referring to when you say "she puts you in a guessing game that leads to a full combo." Could be looked at a few ways.. are you talking the guessing game in MS or dive kick / jip / poke?
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When I said guessing game after her cartwheel is blocked (-3 I think) I meant that she could just follow up with an EX cartwheel after which grants a full combo if you try to pressure her in any way after. This will put you in check and she can apply more pressure after a blocked cartwheel due to fear of eating an armor cartwheel. I'm not 100% on what she can do after d+4 from range so I'm sure you're correct about the tackle but d4 still grants great pressure from far away when canceled into MS into those low elbows.

I could possibly be biased on the kitana match with reptile because CD gives me all types of problems but it's not like d+1 within hitting range can be dashed on reaction. If you try to dash at the wrong time you're going to eat like 40%. CD plays up close against my reptile and makes it really hard for me to do anything. Her wake up is not very good in any match up really outside of the ass wave thing though reptile can punish that with a dash on reaction.
 
salvificblood

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
SwiftTomHanks said:
I probably fall in with the group of people who fit this bill.

I do not have Kenshi in my top 5 (probably not even top 10). This is probably due to my personal experience against him. I've never lost an important match to Blackula nor Teef who are considered 2 of the best Kenshi players in the States. On top of this I believe they are incredibly skilled an intelligent players - however I would say I don't even have a hard time against them (with Sektor at the very least). Once you respect Kenshi, you lose. Jump over him randomly, mess his zoning with IAF and other guide-able projectiles, and once he has no meter pressure the shit out of him. A good Kenshi will use meter a lot, leaving no room for breakers thus allowing a ton of damage. Characters who can drain meter should do so as much as possible.
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This is exactly how I said Sub-Zero needs to be played to stand any kind of chance against Kenshi, granted, he doesn't have homing missiles or meter draining moves, but he can apply the same general strategy you outline here. that is 100% how I play against kenshi. Make him burn his meter and then pressure, pressure, pressure.
 
GamerBlake90

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
Honestly it's hard to tell whether Sonya is top five or not at this point.

She can only do any major damage when she's up in your face. If she's getting out-zoned, good luck trying to win with her. However, if you zone yourself to the corner, then Sonya will pin you down and do everything in her power to keep you from getting out.

Her Arc Kick (d + b + 4) sees very little use because it is highly unsafe and punishable by a full combo. It doesn't matter whether you just use it to approach the opponent or you try to land an attack with it. That move hurts Sonya's game more than it helps her.

Her zoning tools are limited. She's got a fairly good projectile, but it can easily be avoided by crouching. I suppose she could also use her d4 to gradually inch closer to her opponent, but this fails against some zoners and she takes a good amount of time to recover from a whiffed d4. There's also her shoulder charge (2) from her Military Stance, which I suppose helps a little, but I don't see it being reliable.

The divekick can be done as an instant-air to snuff out counter-pokes effectively, but this is punishable by a full combo and should never be abused. You also want to do it with a diagonal jump, as it tends to act weirdly due to some sort of input bug with the neutral jumps and crouches. Whiffing it also isn't advised.

Her cartwheel is safe on block, but it gives her opponent the chance to counter-poke her and gain some control. Of course if she has meter for her armored EX Cartwheel, this may be of little concern, but you have to find a big enough hole in your opponent's offense for this to work. Instinct becomes key.

Sonya may be a rushdown character, but she isn't exactly about pressure, rather she's all for the mix-ups. And these mix-ups all have a consequence: they send your opponent into a state of knockdown if you guess correctly, allowing them a chance to do a Wake-Up attack and throw Sonya off her game...unless you can see the Wake-Up coming and bait it out for a punish. It all becomes a massive 50/50 while the blonde bitch is up in your face.

She can cancel just about anything into a Military Stance, but this comes with the risk of having your attacks interrupted by attacks such as low-pokes or armored moves. To balance this out, even if she guesses wrong in a mix-up and it gets blocked, she gets away with it but loses advantage and has to block, lest she eats a combo in retaliation. Knowing when to block with her is just as important as mastering her stance mix-ups.

The Kiss also has limited use. It makes for a good anti-air, but doesn't have impressive range and the start-up is very slow. Although you can dash-cancel the Kiss if you enhance it, but I really don't see the point in wasting meter unless anyone can prove me wrong.

Sonya is undoubtedly a solid character, but like with all others she has her fair share of bad match-ups, perhaps too many for her to be considered top-tier.
 
GNG Iniquity

GNG Iniquity

#bufftaquito #punchwalk #whiffycage
How is Sonya not a top 5?

Yeah, she has like 3-4 bad MUs, that's it. I really despise Sonya online, as does everyone else, she's just ridiculous online. The safe dive kick, safe 50/50 off MS (tackle is -3 frames - I'd imagine b4 is around that as well) and her god damn EX trollwheel drive me nuts. Which she ALWAYS has because she builds a ridiculous amount of meter simply by swapping out a MS for a cartwheel; while still being at neutral frames on block. I really don't know how anyone can debate her not being top 5, seriously.

Good zoning (yes, she's no Kitana/Kabal but her rings are fast), 7 frame standing 1, EX cartwheel (best tool hands down), MS 50/50s, has the primo d4 and has ridiculous meter building/block pressure. I do think the divekick is slightly overrated in retrospect to the rest of her tools, but it's by no means bad. It's like they put Cage, Mileena, Rain and CSZ in a blender.
 
D

Death

Noob
Liliheartsonya said:
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Which matchups?
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I personally think her bad MUs are kabal, kenshi and freddy.

I see people saying shes better online. I dont know. I hate using her online cuz i have a hard time hitting her big BnB combos cuz of lag. I guess if you abuse Dive kick and cancel everything into cartwheel instead of MS then i guess shes better.
 
GNG Iniquity

GNG Iniquity

#bufftaquito #punchwalk #whiffycage
Death said:
I personally think her bad MUs are kabal, kenshi and freddy.

I see people saying shes better online. I dont know. I hate using her online cuz i have a hard time hitting her big BnB combos cuz of lag. I guess if you abuse Dive kick and cancel everything into cartwheel instead of MS then i guess shes better.
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I don't have a problem getting her bnb out, I do have massive trouble getting her bnb to connect with the divekick online however. Personally I think her bnb is pretty easy.
 
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