Question - Summoner Post Patch Quan Chi Discussion

[legion666]

They didn't nerf him because "anti zoner zealots" they nerfed it because of the 50/50 on top of 50/50 on top of 50/50. You still have ex skull and I'm sure rune will still be plus from full screen like normal skull is.

You do realize that Skull is a projectile, it has travel time, meaning Quan always recovers the same amount of frames while the skull hits later the further your opponent is. That is why it is plus from fullscreen.
Rune on the other hand DOES NOT have travel time, it always hits in 17 frames anywhere on the screen. Quan will always be at -1 anywhere on the screen.
And regarding the Ex Skull. only the f212xxEx Skull is a true blockstring
b2xxEx Skull ,14xxEx Skull and every other string into Ex skull are NOT. Opponent can armor before the Ex Skull as it starts up 4 frames slower then Rune (21 frame start up, the Rune is 17 frames)

 

[Capatan Azn Man]

More like everyone just wants to watch Quan Chi burn.

 

[legion666]

-Make B+LT bat a mid (still usable for pressure/safety on negative strings)
-Give B2 like 3 more startup frames to make it slightly more reactable
-Give EX Trance 1 hit of armor(great armor move but super punishable i.e. Lao EX Spin)

Done. Summoner loses hard-to-blockables, but still remains largely the same character, and gains some wake up options. Sorcerer and Warlock are only slightly affected with B2 change, while gaining the ability to trade projectiles with EX Trance and run in for a short 141 into set up or something. Might not be the best changes, but I think it's a start and an approach like this should be taken by NRS so as to not destroy his other variations. What do you guys think?

Edit: I have not yet watched Dink's video as I am at work, so I apologize if I say something that has already been mentioned.

You do realize that B+LT bat has always been a Mid??

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

But couldn't you always just EX Spin between the gaps or inside the EX Rune for full combo and near half screen wall carry though? Maybe more people should have used their defensive options rather than complain.

+14 to -1 is too much.

There is no gap between the hits of ex rune

 

[RagingRicans]

Adjustments were definitely needed, but I respect that you're already looking for alternatives.


Maybe Summoner mains will realize he can still be viable without all the extra crazy bullshit.

 

[legion666]

But couldn't you always just EX Spin between the gaps or inside the EX Rune for full combo and near half screen wall carry though? Maybe more people should have used their defensive options rather than complain.

+14 to -1 is too much.

It was always possible to armor between the b32 and Rune. But not the b2xxRune. And yeah, there is no gap between the hits of MB Rune

 

[SaltShaker]

There is no gap between the hits of ex rune

It was always possible to armor between the b32 and Rune. But not the b2xxRune. And yeah, there is no gap between the hits of MB Rune

And after if they go for B2 after EX Rune correct? So there are gaps and opportunities if you make a good read. It's risk/reward. I admit +14 is too high, but I see no reason why it shouldn't be say, +7. Considering all the chars in this game with EX Plus Frames and METERLESS plus frames with cancels into heavy pressure and/or 50/50's, I stand by -1 being way too big of a hit. Feels much more like a "people hate Quan Chi" nerf than a well thought out one. I don't even play Quan and hate fighting him but don't agree with this.

 

[Azmodeus]

And after if they go for B2 after EX Rune correct? So there are gaps and opportunities if you make a good read. It's risk/reward. I admit +14 is too high, but I see no reason why it shouldn't be say, +7. Considering all the chars in this game with EX Plus Frames and METERLESS plus frames with cancels into heavy pressure and/or 50/50's, I stand by -1 being way too big of a hit. Feels much more like a "people hate Quan Chi" nerf than a well thought out one. I don't even play Quan and hate fighting him but don't agree with this.

This is probably one of the more reasonable things I've heard. However, in order to preserve sorcerer's rune trap, I would say make the runes +9 or +10. That way you can armor any mixup (b2 or b324) but standing 1 will still jail. Trance doesn't need the recovery nerf tho.

 

[RM NoBrows]

You do realize that Skull is a projectile, it has travel time, meaning Quan always recovers the same amount of frames while the skull hits later the further your opponent is. That is why it is plus from fullscreen.
Rune on the other hand DOES NOT have travel time, it always hits in 17 frames anywhere on the screen. Quan will always be at -1 anywhere on the screen.
And regarding the Ex Skull. only the f212xxEx Skull is a true blockstring
b2xxEx Skull ,14xxEx Skull and every other string into Ex skull are NOT. Opponent can armor before the Ex Skull as it starts up 4 frames slower then Rune (21 frame start up, the Rune is 17 frames)

And this is why sorcerer will be shit if these nerfs do happen in the new patch. No guaranteed block strings with enhanced specials= killing the use of quan chis chip hex. And I haven't seen anyone talk about this outside of summoner, but that also means for sorcerer that he can't put on a hex with the new recovery frame nerf of trance. His only useful spell will be the armor one.

 

[VOR]

Still seems ok to me. I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to make the bat have LESS cool down time. Make him more of a zoner and less of a hard-to-blockables character.

 

[The_Tile]

Hello all!

Theres been so much buzz in the quan forums lately about the upcoming possible nerfs to Quan. I made a video with my thoughts on the changes, Keep in mind nothing official has been released from NRS and these are just speculation, albeit from quite reliable sources. What are your thoughts on Quan?

Actually Dink, he should still be able to end in NJP 141 instead of 21xxBatSummon. This should add a bit more to the damage and still allow him to end in high frame advantage.

 

[The_Tile]

You still have ex skull and I'm sure rune will still be plus from full screen like normal skull is.

Rune has no travelling frames so no it wouldn't.

Edit: Already been said, my bad.

 

[BillStickers]

The trance duration was fucking absurd before. Get over it.

 

[The_Tile]

The trance duration was fucking absurd before. Get over it.

Its not the trance duration that really hurts, it's mb rune being negative.

 

[Goat-City]

The trance duration was fucking absurd before. Get over it.

The only thing absurd about it was Summoner's hard to blockables, but those can be removed without destroying Sorcerer's rune trap and nerfing his damage. This change to trance ruins the rune trap by itself, it's a huge deal.

 

[Goat-City]

You do realize that Skull is a projectile, it has travel time, meaning Quan always recovers the same amount of frames while the skull hits later the further your opponent is. That is why it is plus from fullscreen.
Rune on the other hand DOES NOT have travel time, it always hits in 17 frames anywhere on the screen. Quan will always be at -1 anywhere on the screen.
And regarding the Ex Skull. only the f212xxEx Skull is a true blockstring
b2xxEx Skull ,14xxEx Skull and every other string into Ex skull are NOT. Opponent can armor before the Ex Skull as it starts up 4 frames slower then Rune (21 frame start up, the Rune is 17 frames)

14 EX skull into 14 EX skull does actually jail, but you have to be super on point with the timing after the run cancel. It feels like 2 frames of leniency so it would be pretty inconsistent to try to loop.

 

[God Confirm]

If that's it then Quan mains need to man the fuck up.

we need another salt report, like yesterday, mate

 

[SneakyTortoise]

we need another salt report, like yesterday, mate

I know. I've been itching to write one, but real life has been keeping me down

 

[God Confirm]

I know. I've been itching to write one, but real life has been keeping me down

If you need any help let me know, not looking for any credit either, these past months almost got me feeling to write one of my own

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

All these fools saying that we can just use ex skull for the plus frames...

The ex rune is not only about the plus frames. It's that it also launches for combo on hit. If they're gonna do this, I want the gaps in his strings removed.

 

[Rude]

Obviously not but the cost of missing it is not really that high, you are still gonna be hard as hell to block, and its not something he relies on

If you don't have meter, the cost of missing it is eating a full combo, as you can't hit confirm the OH and have to commit to Trance.

Bear in mind, mis-timing it means Bat hits mid.

Then of course, you have the NJP set ups, the cross over set ups where you can make it OH/LOW, or LOW/OH depending on the timing of when you release the bat (again causing Bat to hit mid), the different delayed B2/Low bat set ups, combo'ing off of B2, skull, low bat without resetting the combo counter mid-screen, comboing off of a B2/Low bat mix up where B2 hits first....etc


A LOT more technical than people give the character credit for.

 

[Rude]

I see a lot of people telling Quan players to use EX Skull for the Hex spell.

Question: What do you do if they take the skull hit midscreen and hex circle is out?

Except for maybe EX Trance, I can't think of anything that stops them from getting out that way.

 

[colby4898]

49.5% vs 60.75%

With the ex rune change the 3 bar corner chip setup will do 49.5% on top of the combo to set the rune up as oppose to 60.75%. So it's not actually as big a loss as I initially thought. As long as the chip spell is sped up so that we can do rune, dd2, 3 and it all combos we should be ok.

 

[The_Tile]

If you don't have meter, the cost of missing it is eating a full combo, as you can't hit confirm the OH and have to commit to Trance.

Bear in mind, mis-timing it means Bat hits mid.

Then of course, you have the NJP set ups, the cross over set ups where you can make it OH/LOW, or LOW/OH depending on the timing of when you release the bat (again causing Bat to hit mid), the different delayed B2/Low bat set ups, combo'ing off of B2, skull, low bat without resetting the combo counter mid-screen, comboing off of a B2/Low bat mix up where B2 hits first....etc


A LOT more technical than people give the character credit for.

This is what I try to explain to people, whether Summoner is broken or not he has so many options it's insane. I haven't saw any player use the character optimally yet. Off every situation he has at least at least 10+ mixup options and every one of them can be made plus with the use of mbrune or bat which lead into the same situation on hit or block. If anyone uses all of his mixups properly he WILL open you up, there's no way around that. And when he does, he hits like a truck.

The more I think about it the more I genuinely think Quan will be fine, more than just fine even. His zoning will still be decent, but what he'll be about now is the corner game. He will still have pretty good corner carry and as long as they don't increase damage scaling on any of his specials he will still have crazy damage. He'll still have plus on block 50/50s with ExSkull that can be easily hit confirmed into full combo into the same situation. He'll be able to break any armor attempts too, he'll work similar to grandmaster.

Summoner will be just fine, Sorcerer and Warlock are a completely different matter.

 

[YoShadowFiend]

yo if these nerfs are true, im glad i started playing other chars a month in advance. i knew if TYM scrubs cried hard enough, a char will no doubt die.