Question - Summoner Post Patch Quan Chi Discussion

[colby4898]

49.5% vs 60.75%

With the ex rune change the 3 bar corner chip setup will do 49.5% on top of the combo to set the rune up as oppose to 60.75%. So it's not actually as big a loss as I initially thought. As long as the chip spell is sped up so that we can do rune, dd2, 3 and it all combos we should be ok.

Also confirming and converting off of 14 ex skull is actually really easy and you can get a 40% combo ending in njp 141... this nerf won't be as bad as I thought

 

[legion666]

14 EX skull into 14 EX skull does actually jail, but you have to be super on point with the timing after the run cancel. It feels like 2 frames of leniency so it would be pretty inconsistent to try to loop.

You are right. The game's frame data is wrong about 14 cancel advantage (it is -7 on block, but cancel adv isn't 21 for sure, otherwise 14xxEx Skull wouldn't be a true blockstring)

 

[God Confirm]

If you don't have meter, the cost of missing it is eating a full combo, as you can't hit confirm the OH and have to commit to Trance.

Bear in mind, mis-timing it means Bat hits mid.

Then of course, you have the NJP set ups, the cross over set ups where you can make it OH/LOW, or LOW/OH depending on the timing of when you release the bat (again causing Bat to hit mid), the different delayed B2/Low bat set ups, combo'ing off of B2, skull, low bat without resetting the combo counter mid-screen, comboing off of a B2/Low bat mix up where B2 hits first....etc


A LOT more technical than people give the character credit for.

Ok, so there is a 1 frame window for it to hit mid and it's STILL "only" a 50/50 if I do, oh noes


Regardless, my statement is not really something you can argue - I've learned 11 different characters over the course of the game and I personally found Quan one of the easiest. Every character has their higher end shit, and Quan's simply did not compare to other characters in my experience

 

[BillStickers]

All these fools saying that we can just use ex skull for the plus frames...

The ex rune is not only about the plus frames. It's that it also launches for combo on hit. If they're gonna do this, I want the gaps in his strings removed.

IMO getting rid of these braindead plus on block/combo on hit strings is a step in the right direction for MKX as a whole. Was hit confirming too difficult for people or something?

 

[colby4898]

He still has midscreen chip spell traps too. I really don't think this is going to be as bad as I thought at all
25% + 22.5% = 47.5% 1 meter

The last 2 vid's I've posted is of course assuming you can set up the chip spell in the trance. If they do nerf trance and you can't do that then yes this variation is fucked.

 

[PunkMafia83]

Hehehehehehe

 

[Goat-City]

He still has midscreen chip spell traps too. I really don't think this is going to be as bad as I thought at all
25% + 22.5% = 47.5% 1 meter

The last 2 vid's I've posted is of course assuming you can set up the chip spell in the trance. If they do nerf trance and you can't do that then yes this variation is fucked.

They would just take the hit of the skull, so it would actually be about 40%. There'd hardly be any reason to do that when you can instead just finish the combo for 30% into a safe armor spell set up for no meter as opposed to 40% damage for a bar that many characters in the game can get and they don't sacrifice having armored reversals. Even if it was 47% for a bar midscreen the armor spell would still be just as good of an option or better. This change sucks and makes no sense, there's just no way around that. And they might as well remove the skeleton brutality from the game after this because it will become impossible to ever get practically.

 

[colby4898]

They would just take the hit of the skull, so it would actually be about 40%. There'd hardly be any reason to do that when you can instead just finish the combo for 30% into a safe armor spell set up for no meter as opposed to 40% damage for a bar that many characters in the game can get and they don't sacrifice having armored reversals. Even if it was 47% for a bar midscreen the armor spell would still be just as good of an option or better. This change sucks and makes no sense, there's just no way around that. And they might as well remove the skeleton brutality from the game after this because it will become impossible to ever get practically.

True it's better to set up the armour after a full combo but I was thinking of it being situational if the opponent has 40-50% health left. But I didn't think about the fact they could just get hit by the skull... that's a good point and my opinion of the nerf has reverted back to it being bullshit lol

 

[Aramonde]

The last 2 vid's I've posted is of course assuming you can set up the chip spell in the trance. If they do nerf trance and you can't do that then yes this variation is fucked.

The decreased tranced time is one of the nerfs were talking about so he wouldn't be able to do these unless they make the spell faster to cast.

 

[colby4898]

The decreased tranced time is one of the nerfs were talking about so he wouldn't be able to do these unless they make the spell faster to cast.

As long as the chip spell is sped up so that we can do rune, dd2, 3 and it all combos we should be ok.

The last 2 vid's I've posted is of course assuming you can set up the chip spell in the trance. If they do nerf trance and you can't do that then yes this variation is fucked.

Also theres always a possibilty that they might stick with the rune nerf and not the trance nerf.

 

[Azmodeus]

Aight Sorcerer mains, I found something. If you land any trance, you can follow it up with a dash (to keep the opponent in the corner), then a deep neutral jump kick and immediately summon the armor portal, the armor portal will come out before anyone can punish it. This even works against Buzz Saw KL, although the armor takes a hit. This is 100% guaranteed to set up the chip spell also because the chip comes out faster. This is important because if you do a longer combo, such as B324, njp, 4, 14xxtrance, you wont be able to get the f2122 141 knock down and the trance nerf wont let it come out during the trance. Hope this isn't needed, but if it is, it exists. I tested this in the corner against Buzzsaw Lao btw

 

[Rude]

Ok, so there is a 1 frame window for it to hit mid and it's STILL "only" a 50/50 if I do, oh noes


Regardless, my statement is not really something you can argue - I've learned 11 different characters over the course of the game and I personally found Quan one of the easiest. Every character has their higher end shit, and Quan's simply did not compare to other characters in my experience

You clearly don't play the character at a high level, especially if you think the execution of anything I described for is easy.

If the bat hits mid, there IS no fifty/fifty. Many times, I've mis-timed the set up and thus, made the mix up easier to block.

If you can execute all of those set ups 10/10 times, offline, in a real tournament match, then I'll take you seriously.

Otherwise, you just don't know what you're talking about with regards to playing Summoner Quan at high level.

 

[God Confirm]

You clearly don't play the character at a high level, especially if you think the execution of anything I described for is easy.

If the bat hits mid, there IS no fifty/fifty. Many times, I've mis-timed the set up and thus, made the mix up easier to block.

If you can execute all of those set ups 10/10 times, offline, in a real tournament match, then I'll take you seriously.

Otherwise, you just don't know what you're talking about with regards to playing Summoner Quan at high level.

I don't play any character at a high level, I just play at my level.

But fact is you are talking about shit that to me just didn't compare to Dualists 1 frame links, Hellfries two aura frame links and run cancels, to trying to land Wrestlers BnBs on a female, etc, and these are all IMPORTANT things to playing the character yours is just a lame way of resetting for the vortex for less damage that I've seen you yourself call sub-par and not worth going for.

No need to get salty bout it, Quan is just easier on execution than many other characters, it's pretty well known and you'd know this if you played more than one character lmao you are out of your depth here

 

[Rude]

I don't play any character at a high level, I just play at my level.

But fact is you are talking about shit that to me just didn't compare to Dualists 1 frame links, Hellfries two aura frame links and run cancels, to trying to land Wrestlers BnBs on a female, etc, and these are all IMPORTANT things to playing the character yours is just a lame way of resetting for the vortex for less damage that I've seen you yourself call sub-par and not worth going for.

No need to get salty bout it, Quan is just easier on execution than many other characters, it's pretty well known and you'd know this if you played more than one character lmao you are out of your depth here

Unfortunately, I think the reverse is true.

I do play more than one character, and if you think that timing a 1-frame fuzzy is somehow easy, then we'll have to agree to disagree because your understanding of the character is lacking.

All of those set ups were invented out of necessity. Basic Level Quan doesn't beat the better players.

As such, you're not a credible authority on the character and shouldn't be taken seriously

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

I don't play any character at a high level, I just play at my level.

But fact is you are talking about shit that to me just didn't compare to Dualists 1 frame links, Hellfries two aura frame links and run cancels, to trying to land Wrestlers BnBs on a female, etc, and these are all IMPORTANT things to playing the character yours is just a lame way of resetting for the vortex for less damage that I've seen you yourself call sub-par and not worth going for.

No need to get salty bout it, Quan is just easier on execution than many other characters, it's pretty well known and you'd know this if you played more than one character lmao you are out of your depth here

If you're doing very low damage combos then yes his execution is easy

 

[God Confirm]

Unfortunately, I think the reverse is true.

I do play more than one character, and if you think that timing a 1-frame fuzzy is somehow easy, then we'll have to agree to disagree because your understanding of the character is lacking.

All of those set ups were invented out of necessity. Basic Level Quan doesn't beat the better players.

As such, you're not a credible authority on the character and shouldn't be taken seriously

How is your execution or even knowledge of execution of the characters I mentioned? How consistent have you gotten their combo's? You really think the opinions of someone specialized in one character hold more weight than someone who has properly experienced multiple characters? You might possibly have more specialist knowledge in the corner of the Quan but that doesn't mean much as someone familiar with BOTH when we are COMPARING the two, what little I lack in Quan experience I make up for in the world of Jax experience that I have and you don't when it comes to this discussion, and to say Quan is harder than Jax is absolutely laughable. I've played all learned all these characters I'm not just saying it arbitrarily and if you doubt my skill with them I will play ANY of them vs your Quan once the netcode is fixed. Hell I'll even Quan vs Quan as a bonus on top of that as well

You just keep going around in circles here. I say "it doesn't need to be executed to 1 frame of accuracy even if you are a tiny bit off it still serves the same purposes of being extremely hard to block, also this isn't core to his gameplay and is rarely ever used" and you respond with "wow you just don't understand the character you think timing a 1 frame link is easy". Seriously you've done it multiple times now, so I'm not going to bother responding to you any further, and at the end of the day what you are arguing is nonsense anyway, I said out of all the characters I played, I found that Quan was second most easy for me, you can't say that wrong haha it's a personal experience and it did happen, you are just getting salty because everyone loves to believe their character is the hardest to play and hates to hear of anyone who had a different experience, move on from it

 

[Rude]

How is your execution or even knowledge of execution of the characters I mentioned? How consistent have you gotten their combo's? You really think the opinions of someone specialized in one character hold more weight than someone who has properly experienced multiple characters? You might possibly have more specialist knowledge in the corner of the Quan but that doesn't mean much as someone familiar with BOTH when we are COMPARING the two, what little I lack in Quan experience I make up for in the world of Jax experience that I have and you don't when it comes to this discussion, and to say Quan is harder than Jax is absolutely laughable. I've played all learned all these characters I'm not just saying it arbitrarily and if you doubt my skill with them I will play ANY of them vs your Quan once the netcode is fixed. Hell I'll even Quan vs Quan as a bonus on top of that as well

You just keep going around in circles here. I say "it doesn't need to be executed to 1 frame of accuracy even if you are a tiny bit off it still serves the same purposes of being extremely hard to block, also this isn't core to his gameplay and is rarely ever used" and you respond with "wow you just don't understand the character you think timing a 1 frame link is easy". Seriously you've done it multiple times now, so I'm not going to bother responding to you any further, and at the end of the day what you are arguing is nonsense anyway, I said out of all the characters I played, I found that Quan was second most easy for me, you can't say that wrong haha it's a personal experience and it did happen, you are just getting salty because everyone loves to believe their character is the hardest to play and hates to hear of anyone who had a different experience, move on from it

Your central thesis is, "I play multiple characters, so I know better than you."

Which you've repeated ad nauseum.

I play several alts for casuals, but Quan Chi is my main, so I do have knowledge on multiple characters and I've studied more than that.

The set ups I described are very important to his gameplay, as evidenced by the fact that they're employed by the best Quans. Further, they're important because they serve as another layer of Yomi in a match up.

That you dismiss it as extra tells the story.

The reality is that you're using your, "personal experience" as a talking point to back up your claims about the character. The moment you present that experience as evidence to your claim is the moment we can question the validity of that evidence.

Simply saying, "it's my personal experience," doesn't let you off the hook for backing up your claims.

Debate doesn't work that way.

Really, all you've done is attack and belittle the Quan community, offering nothing of substance or value to the discussion.

You rely on anecdotal evidence to back up your claims and you belittle any Quan player that doesn't share your opinion.

I'm sorry that you feel insecure and need to challenge me in an online set, as if that would prove anything other than who knows the mirror match better.

I'm looking at either attending Final Round or CEO. Go to one of those events and money match me, if you think a ft5 actually proves anything.

Otherwise, you're not an authority in the character, you've contributed nothing of value in the discussion, and have conducted yourself as little more than a troll with better than average prose.

See you at a major.

 

[Rude]

If you're doing very low damage combos then yes his execution is easy

Don't bother, Dink. He plays Quan as his 11th alt.

He clearly knows the character best.

 

[God Confirm]

Your central thesis is, "I play multiple characters, so I know better than you."

Which you've repeated ad nauseum.

Completely missed it. I said the character is easier to play than 9 other characters that I've played. Nothing else. You've turned it into this because you seem to love arguing possibly more than life itself. I'm not gonna play into it, toodleloo

 

[God Confirm]

Don't bother, Dink. He plays Quan as his 11th alt.

He clearly knows the character best.

You are actually unbearable.

 

[Rude]

Completely missed it. I said the character is easier to play than 9 other characters that I've played. Nothing else. You've turned it into this because you seem to love arguing possibly more than life itself. I'm not gonna play into it, toodleloo

"I'm not responding to you anymore, you meanie!"

Responds two more times.

So, see you at either Final Round or CEO.

Dismissed.

 

[PLAY FOR KEEPSIES]

TIL Quan Chi players think their character is hard to play . always good for a laugh

 

[SaltShaker]

Rude vs God Confirm. $100 MM. Quan vs The Field. BOOK IT.

 

[Lokheit]

Well, I use Warlock since the beginning (that green glow and those portals...) and it sucks that he's going to be affected by Summoner's nerf. I hope he gets some compensation on his exclusive stuff if this is true.

And I guess Sorcerer could have faster spells to counter the trance nerf, though that could lead to plenty of setups depending on how much it's changed.

 

[Rude]

I think that Summoner will adapt to these changes.

I am concerned about the trance duration nerf. If it isn't possible to cast spell circles during Trance, Hex spell in particular will be less effective.

Time will tell.