Question - Summoner Post Patch Quan Chi Discussion

[LiquidDrone]

Hey guys I'm new to the forum, I've been maining sorcerer since day 1 and I would like to express my thoughts on these rumoured nerfs.

Quan needs nerfs, I agree with that absolutely, especially summoner needs some good adjustments to make him more fair. But this is too much. Whoever says the contrary IMO either hates Quan, or is not fully capable of understanding the strange dynamics that make this character (sorcerer in particular) VERY hard to use AND to deal with. Even now Quan struggles A LOT in quite a few areas.

I would give him THE FOLLOWING NERFS: Summoner- No more low bat, Sorcerer - Armour spell lasts for a shorter period. Ex rune to +10

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

looks like Quan is finally getting the Shinnok treatment instead of more buffs.
Still can't get up though hahahaha

 

[LiquidDrone]

looks like Quan is finally getting the Shinnok treatment instead of more buffs.
Still can't get up though hahahaha

Yeah he had to be nerfed...but this will destroy warlock and sorcerer completely

 

[GAV]

I can do the lower level QC combos, but can't begin to touch the higher level ones. If you don't play - or haven't played against - high level QC'ers, you should just stop talking about him as a character because you just simply don't know. I've at least seen him played at a high level, grasp the tech, but I can't pull that stuff off consistently. Its just not easy by any stretch.

 

[THTB]

I really dislike the trance nerf. It's the worst way of handling the bat summon during trance. It fucks with Sorcerer majorly for no real reason. There's better ways to nerf Summoner.

The EX rune change, I think it's okay, and not okay. Mostly because i get why they wanted to get rid of it. Summoner and the general idea of him being able to repeatedly 50/50 with one option jailing is reeeally fucking stupid, but removing the idea of advantage after spending a bar isn't the way to handle that.

 

[LiquidDrone]

I can do the lower level QC combos, but can't begin to touch the higher level ones. If you don't play - or haven't played against - high level QC'ers, you should just stop talking about him as a character because you just simply don't know. I've at least seen him played at a high level, grasp the tech, but I can't pull that stuff off consistently. Its just not easy by any stretch.

QC execution is not hard actually; his playstyle is. I'm not talking about Summoner ( He needs nerfs ). I just don't understand why people would nerf an entire char when it's only one var that really needs it. Anyway, if these nerfs are true, qc will be bottom tier

 

[Frank3nst3in]

Uh shit!! i have spend a whole month getting all the tech of summoner Quan and now they are going to nerf him

 

[colby4898]

I really dislike the trance nerf. It's the worst way of handling the bat summon during trance. It fucks with Sorcerer majorly for no real reason. There's better ways to nerf Summoner.

The EX rune change, I think it's okay, and not okay. Mostly because i get why they wanted to get rid of it. Summoner and the general idea of him being able to repeatedly 50/50 with one option jailing is reeeally fucking stupid, but removing the idea of advantage after spending a bar isn't the way to handle that.

I really don't understand why they wouldn't just make bat summon a longer start up rather than making recovery on trance longer... it seems dumb to me.

 

[THTB]

I really don't understand why they wouldn't just make bat summon a longer start up rather than making recovery on trance longer... it seems dumb to me.

Exactly what I feel. The fix would be simple, and doesn't change any of the other variations. Only variation that isn't blown up by this is Warlock.

 

[DrFolmer]

He just needs some damage reduction on his meterless shit. 50 percent meterless in the corner based on his regular 50/50's is just plain stupid. It does require that the bat is already out when you go for the mixup but this is achieved by either a HKD or putting the poor sod in the blender.

 

[SneakyTortoise]

You guys know the same move can have different properties in different variations right?

 

[colby4898]

You guys know the same move can have different properties in different variations right?

Honestly no. I thought all universal moves have to have the same properties, other wise it wouldn't be a universal move I guess...

 

[Capatan Azn Man]

If this nerf is legit, I'd like to know why after all this time it's finally getting acknowledged. I fail to believe the developers didn't foresee these 50/50s/hard to blockables happening during the game's lifetime. I don't know why Sorcerer and Warlock are being nerfed but they shouldn't be touched. I agree with what @michaelangelo said though which is if Summoner were to get a nerf, his damage should be nerfed.

People have been complaining about Quan for quite awhile. So seriously, if this nerf is going to happen, why now? I kinda believe that the developers wanted Quan to play like he does right now. Maybe that's why Summoner has no armored wake ups and that's why he was given a universal 6 frame poke. I think they would've nerfed him awhile ago if this wasn't the case. But really, what do I know. This is just speculation.

 

[SneakyTortoise]

Honestly no. I thought all universal moves have to have the same properties, other wise it wouldn't be a universal move I guess...

Use tremor and look how different db1 is across each variation. Or KL spin.

 

[Azmodeus]

You guys know the same move can have different properties in different variations right?

Actually, this could be an interesting idea. What if when a rune hits normally it is -1 or whatever, but if a rune hits someone while they're in the chip spell, it could be +10 to guarantee the standing 1. You could make it show up the same color as the spell like the meter spell does so it is easy to differentiate. This wouldn't guarantee a mixup, but the rune trap would live! Maybe the meter spell would make the rune plus enough to give it a mixup... that would actually give it a use, but it wouldn't be easy to set up.

 

[colby4898]

Use tremor and look how different db1 is across each variation. Or KL spin.

I see what you mean. I would consider those different moves though because they act differently. Trance acts the exact same across all the variations so I think it's unlikely they would just change the recovery on summoners trance but not the other variations. But possible I guess.

 

[GAV]

QC execution is not hard actually; his playstyle is. I'm not talking about Summoner ( He needs nerfs ). I just don't understand why people would nerf an entire char when it's only one var that really needs it. Anyway, if these nerfs are true, qc will be bottom tier

I can only time the bat right like 1 out of 10 times and practiced for hours, so if its easy for you - more power to ya. For me, that ish is hard.

I really don't want him going the way of Thunder God.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

How is your execution or even knowledge of execution of the characters I mentioned? How consistent have you gotten their combo's? You really think the opinions of someone specialized in one character hold more weight than someone who has properly experienced multiple characters? You might possibly have more specialist knowledge in the corner of the Quan but that doesn't mean much as someone familiar with BOTH when we are COMPARING the two, what little I lack in Quan experience I make up for in the world of Jax experience that I have and you don't when it comes to this discussion, and to say Quan is harder than Jax is absolutely laughable. I've played all learned all these characters I'm not just saying it arbitrarily and if you doubt my skill with them I will play ANY of them vs your Quan once the netcode is fixed. Hell I'll even Quan vs Quan as a bonus on top of that as well

You just keep going around in circles here. I say "it doesn't need to be executed to 1 frame of accuracy even if you are a tiny bit off it still serves the same purposes of being extremely hard to block, also this isn't core to his gameplay and is rarely ever used" and you respond with "wow you just don't understand the character you think timing a 1 frame link is easy". Seriously you've done it multiple times now, so I'm not going to bother responding to you any further, and at the end of the day what you are arguing is nonsense anyway, I said out of all the characters I played, I found that Quan was second most easy for me, you can't say that wrong haha it's a personal experience and it did happen, you are just getting salty because everyone loves to believe their character is the hardest to play and hates to hear of anyone who had a different experience, move on from it

I get a kick out of people who are all "oh I play 17 characters" when really they only know a combo or two and can beat a few people in ranked.

Knowledge like that is not a comparison for a day one main of any character. Quan is no exception.

When determining buffs and nerfs we need to discuss the characte at the top level, not a casual one. It's up to the experienced players to lead this, not the players who have 20 side characters.

 

[ienjoywinning]

So he's pretty much back to day 1 state except that
1-the bat still has a cooldown

2-ex rune us -1

3-sorcrer and warlock are now terrible

If this is true then this character is actually fucked , there are way of nerfing him without completely fucking him up... Why not scale his damage instead of adding more recovery to trance? Why not make low bat slower or make it a mid so he doesn't have his hard to blockable? This does not make any sense....

 

[ienjoywinning]

Exactly what I feel. The fix would be simple, and doesn't change any of the other variations. Only variation that isn't blown up by this is Warlock.

He should still be able to summon his bat and keep comboing because thats what made him fun in the first place , they can make the low bat slower , or they can make it a mid atleast but not removing an entire way of comboing.

 

[MikeLovesSloths]

Im so mad because I love Sorcerer and now its dumb that they are trashing this character because of the damage you can do in the other variations. Yeah Sorcerer has 50% chip damage but thats if you block the whole thing. That can get nerfed, fine by me, but why this charcter changing nerf. Stupid.

 

[colby4898]

Im so mad because I love Sorcerer and now its dumb that they are trashing this character because of the damage you can do in the other variations. Yeah Sorcerer has 50% chip damage but thats if you block the whole thing. That can get nerfed, fine by me, but why this charcter changing nerf. Stupid.

and if you don't block the whole thing you take more damage...

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

IMO getting rid of these braindead plus on block/combo on hit strings is a step in the right direction for MKX as a whole. Was hit confirming too difficult for people or something?

Fine, like I said, remove the gaps and it's fine. If you're gonna take away the plus frames on the Ex Rune, then B32Rune shouldnt be interruptible.

 

[MikeLovesSloths]

and if you don't block the whole thing you take more damage...

Thats why i would be fine if that 50% got nerfed

 

[Colest]

Use tremor and look how different db1 is across each variation. Or KL spin.

Both those examples are moves that were touted in the character reveals as being perks/differences of their respective variation. I can promise you that they're coded as separate moves despite having similar animations, inputs, and names. Same name =/= same move.

Of course they could do that for trance but it'd be unlikely as it's unintuitive as it goes against the concept of the variation system having the characters feel similar yet different. Having a trance with slightly different frame data on one of Quan's variations without a different animation is not something NRS will do.