Question - Summoner Post Patch Quan Chi Discussion

[God Confirm]

I get a kick out of people who are all "oh I play 17 characters" when really they only know a combo or two and can beat a few people in ranked.

Knowledge like that is not a comparison for a day one main of any character. Quan is no exception.

When determining buffs and nerfs we need to discuss the characte at the top level, not a casual one. It's up to the experienced players to lead this, not the players who have 20 side characters.

Seriously dude wtf are you talking about. I didn't say I had as much knowledge as a Quan specialist player in fact I said specifically the opposite, nor was I talking about whether or not he needs buffs or nerfs, I just said that he was easier to play than any other characters I've learned, which is a comparison I'm perfectly well qualified to make especially compared to someon who only plays 1 character - how the shit would you know so much better than where he ranks in terms of comparitive difficulty to learn, to a bunch of characters you have not learned? Not being rude i just don't understand the logic here or why I'm so unqualified to talk here but you guys think you are - just seems like an argument of convenience for you. Also I was just speaking on my experience. You guys get butthurt quick as hell up in here over the littlest shit, u keep changing the goal posts to a bunch of stuff i did not say lol. Another example of that, I did not say I main all these characters just that I've learned them and fleshed them out to understand the game a bit better and played them for a little while and am familiar with what skills the character takes to play and how difficult they were, however i mained Quan for nearly 2 months btw so I have a bit more knowledge on him than most other characters I have learned and much more knowledge "2 combos and a couple of wins in ranked" and certainly after 2 months of playing a character I think I'm at least allowed to speak on my OPINIONS on how hard he is to play compared to other characters I had to learn. why you guys try to stop everyone with an opinion you disagree with from even talking lol, try to discredit my statements if they are wrong you should be able to, stop trying to discredit the person posting them

 

[GAV]

Seriously dude wtf are you talking about. I didn't say I had as much knowledge as a Quan specialist player in fact I said specifically the opposite, nor was I talking about whether or not he needs buffs or nerfs, I just said that he was easier to play than any other characters I've learned, which is a comparison I'm perfectly well qualified to make especially compared to someon who only plays 1 character - how the shit would you know so much better than where he ranks in terms of comparitive difficulty to learn, to a bunch of characters you have not learned? also I was just speaking on my experience. You guys get butthurt quick as hell up in here over the littlest shit, keep changing the goal posts to a bunch of stuff i did not say lol. Also I did not say I main all these characters just that I've learned them and fleshed them out to understand the game a bit better and often just played as them for a week or two, however i mained Quan for nearly 2 months btw so I have a bit more knowledge on him than most other characters I have learned and much more knowledge "2 combos and a couple of wins in ranked" and certainly after 2 months of playing a character I think I'm at least allowed to speak on my OPINIONS on how hard he is to play compared to other characters I had to learn. why you guys try to stop everyone with an opinion you disagree with from even talking lol, try to discredit my statements if they are wrong you should be able to, stop trying to discredit the person posting them

Even though he quoted you, I don't think he was speaking directly to you.

There has been a ton of Quan-hate here - and it has all been from those who don't play him. Now, there are some big nerfs coming his way - and its over-the-top, so Quan users are going to be ticked because NRS listened to guys like you - who don't really know.

I think you're a good poster, but I also think Quan gets unnecessary hate from those that don't really know much about the character - and now unnecessary nerfs have followed - so the hate to the unknowing haters is going to follow that from the Quan players that actually do know.

 

[God Confirm]

Even though he quoted you, I don't think he was speaking directly to you.

There has been a ton of Quan-hate here - and it has all been from those who don't play him. Now, there are some big nerfs coming his way - and its over-the-top, so Quan users are going to be ticked because NRS listened to guys like you - who don't really know.

I think you're a good poster, but I also think Quan gets unnecessary hate from those that don't really know much about the character - and now unnecessary nerfs have followed - so the hate to the unknowing haters is going to follow that from the Quan players that actually do know.

If thats the case @STB Shujinkydink then I agree. A lot of people know the character is strong but don't understand him or what he needs to be balanced I can recognise that from reading some of the comments, but that being said this was a thread just directed to everybody with an open poll and no specifications made on who should respond, so we can't really be surprised when everyone responds to it with their opinion

 

[thlityoursloat]

lol people complaining about ex rune being -1. It's still safe, you just can't loop 50/50s over and over and over again anymore.

 

[Azmodeus]

lol people complaining about ex rune being -1. It's still safe, you just can't loop 50/50s over and over and over again anymore.

Read the rest of the thread, its not like thats all Quan Chi uses his rune for. And btw, we can't just loop 50/50s forever, b32xxRune is armorable before the rune, and it costs meter, so its not like quan can do this eveytime he touches you until he gets another combo. People seem to forget that last one, if quan breaks, he gets one rune.

 

[Rude]

lol people complaining about ex rune being -1. It's still safe, you just can't loop 50/50s over and over and over again anymore.

You couldn't loop them before.

MB Rune (gap, armor or backdash) B2

B32(gap, armor or backdash) MB Rune.

It's not difficult at all to do.

 

[thlityoursloat]

You couldn't loop them before.

MB Rune (gap, armor or backdash) B2

B32(gap, armor or backdash) MB Rune.

It's not difficult at all to do.

I know they weren't (aren't) perfectly loopable. It's just that the notion of being +14 after a blocked 50/50 is retarded.

 

[THTB]

lol people complaining about ex rune being -1. It's still safe, you just can't loop 50/50s over and over and over again anymore.

The problem isn't that. It's that now an EX rune is pretty much the opponent's advantage if they block the mixup. It would be one thing if EX rune was still plus enough to frame trap with, but you can't even do that anymore. It should have been reduced to something like +3 or +4 so that he can still frame trap you with certain options. With a character without a viable armor attack on all but 1 variation, I don't feel the nerf took into consideration that Quan doesn't have the defense to handle the variations that lock him down so well. With certain offensive characters losing things that lock him down well, though, I do see where the nerf is coming from, so that he's not still that "arm's race to initiate offense" type of character.

On the plus side, though, this means Warlock will see definite spikes in usage. I don't think Summoner and Sorcerer will be terrible, but I don't see them being so far ahead of Warlock, which was great, just not overbearing.

 

[Rude]

I know they weren't (aren't) perfectly loopable. It's just that the notion of being +14 after a blocked 50/50 is (soap bar in my mouth).

Not really, not if you know when to challenge it.

See, a lot of players see +14 and think they're helpless. That's not the case. Even if the opponent has a guaranteed follow up, they won't always go for it, so you need to challenge it.

After MB Rune, the only thing guaranteed besides stand jabs or b1 is B324. That's a full combo punishable string. The alternative, b32 MB Rune, also has a gap.

So you have options. Also, Quan is hardly the only character that can do more than one 50/50 attempt, or has used to blockables.
Sonya, in two different variations, has both of these things.

 

[Azmodeus]

It should have been reduced to something like +3 or +4 so that he can still frame trap you with certain options.

The problem with that is that still kills sorcerer's best tool which is the chip spell. If the rune was +9-10, standing 1 would jail, but all mixups would be armorable. It would be a read to do armor, but the armor would work more often against even standing 1 due to the smaller window.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Not really, not if you know when to challenge it.

See, a lot of players see +14 and think they're helpless. That's not the case. Even if the opponent has a guaranteed follow up, they won't always go for it, so you need to challenge it.

After MB Rune, the only thing guaranteed besides stand jabs or b1 is B324. That's a full combo punishable string. The alternative, b32 MB Rune, also has a gap.

So you have options. Also, Quan is hardly the only character that can do more than one 50/50 attempt, or has used to blockables.
Sonya, in two different variations, has both of these things.

It's still not so bad though, right? You still get to keep the vortex and the hard to blockables.
I will admit that -1 is a bit extreme buy hey ho.

 

[THTB]

The problem with that is that still kills sorcerer's best tool which is the chip spell. If the rune was +9-10, standing 1 would jail, but all mixups would be armorable. It would be a read to do armor, but the armor would work more often against even standing 1 due to the smaller window.

Thinking on it, I think they wanted to eliminate the massive chip damage he could get. From what I can gather with this and the alleged Tempest change, they might want less of an emphasis on being able to close out rounds with that so well. But it makes no sense to completely eliminate the possibility of a frame trap with the trance nerf. He won't even be able to summon portals right after a trance anyway.

Like, I get the thought process on it, and it makes more and more sense exactly what they're doing, the more I think on it. I can understand why they chose the direction they went. But I do agree with everyone, there's just better ways to handle it.

 

[Azmodeus]

Thinking on it, I think they wanted to eliminate the massive chip damage he could get. From what I can gather with this and the alleged Tempest change, they might want less of an emphasis on being able to close out rounds with that so well. But it makes no sense to completely eliminate the possibility of a frame trap with the trance nerf. He won't even be able to summon portals right after a trance anyway.

Then the question becomes why give this variation of quan that specific spell in the first place? If they do intend to take away chip like Quan and Tempest, then why even have it in the game? If this is what they are going for, then sorcerer is basically variationless quan with an armour spell. It seems like this nerf kills 2/3rds of this variation, so there must be some sort of buff that would come along with it? Or is that just wishful thinking.

 

[Capatan Azn Man]

Then the question becomes why give this variation of quan that specific spell in the first place? If they do intend to take away chip like Quan and Tempest, then why even have it in the game? If this is what they are going for, then sorcerer is basically variationless quan with an armour spell. It seems like this nerf kills 2/3rds of this variation, so there must be some sort of buff that would come along with it? Or is that just wishful thinking.

Wishful thinking unfortunately. I think if there was going to be something to make up for the nerfs, there would've been at least a mention of it. That's why these nerfs make no sense. But these nerfs are still just rumors, so who knows.

 

[DDutchguy]

I like that Quan has been nerfed, but this is a bit severe. EX-rune should become something like +6. That way the opponent can armor and backdash (the latter could be caught with a delayed B2), but the Quan player can also make a read on the armor-out attempt. This way EX-rune would still be a powerful tool. In any case, Quan's double 50/50 is gone which is great.

Thank the Boon for more recovery on trance so we don't get nigh-unblockable vortexes into insane damage. Summoner players could still use their mad fast bat summon midscreen for zoning and pseudo-unblockables with B2, so in theory it shouldn't be a disaster.

Edit: Also whoever suggested Warlock should have his 11-frame armored launcher become -8 can get right outta here.

 

[THTB]

Then the question becomes why give this variation of quan that specific spell in the first place? If they do intend to take away chip like Quan and Tempest, then why even have it in the game? If this is what they are going for, then sorcerer is basically variationless quan with an armour spell. It seems like this nerf kills 2/3rds of this variation, so there must be some sort of buff that would come along with it? Or is that just wishful thinking.

Not necessarily useless. I mean, you can still make it work as a chip option, especially if the opponent is low enough on life that landing an EX rune is death.

It's still a change that, in general, has a lot of positive effects on the game as a whole.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

Seriously dude wtf are you talking about. I didn't say I had as much knowledge as a Quan specialist player in fact I said specifically the opposite, nor was I talking about whether or not he needs buffs or nerfs, I just said that he was easier to play than any other characters I've learned, which is a comparison I'm perfectly well qualified to make especially compared to someon who only plays 1 character - how the shit would you know so much better than where he ranks in terms of comparitive difficulty to learn, to a bunch of characters you have not learned? Not being rude i just don't understand the logic here or why I'm so unqualified to talk here but you guys think you are - just seems like an argument of convenience for you. Also I was just speaking on my experience. You guys get butthurt quick as hell up in here over the littlest shit, u keep changing the goal posts to a bunch of stuff i did not say lol. Another example of that, I did not say I main all these characters just that I've learned them and fleshed them out to understand the game a bit better and played them for a little while and am familiar with what skills the character takes to play and how difficult they were, however i mained Quan for nearly 2 months btw so I have a bit more knowledge on him than most other characters I have learned and much more knowledge "2 combos and a couple of wins in ranked" and certainly after 2 months of playing a character I think I'm at least allowed to speak on my OPINIONS on how hard he is to play compared to other characters I had to learn. why you guys try to stop everyone with an opinion you disagree with from even talking lol, try to discredit my statements if they are wrong you should be able to, stop trying to discredit the person posting them

Woah clam down chowder you act like I just questioned your manhood.

In a perfect world yes everyone is entitled to an opinion. But if your opinion is wrong and others start rallying with you it can cause harm to the community (see Donald trump).

In this case the claim of Quan having easy execution is very untrue, unless you are doing puny combos or relying just on two hit hard to blockables. Both of which are poor strategies in high level play and should not be considered when talking about the ease of use of a character

 

[colby4898]

Seriously dude wtf are you talking about. I didn't say I had as much knowledge as a Quan specialist player in fact I said specifically the opposite, nor was I talking about whether or not he needs buffs or nerfs, I just said that he was easier to play than any other characters I've learned, which is a comparison I'm perfectly well qualified to make especially compared to someon who only plays 1 character - how the shit would you know so much better than where he ranks in terms of comparitive difficulty to learn, to a bunch of characters you have not learned? Not being rude i just don't understand the logic here or why I'm so unqualified to talk here but you guys think you are - just seems like an argument of convenience for you. Also I was just speaking on my experience. You guys get butthurt quick as hell up in here over the littlest shit, u keep changing the goal posts to a bunch of stuff i did not say lol. Another example of that, I did not say I main all these characters just that I've learned them and fleshed them out to understand the game a bit better and played them for a little while and am familiar with what skills the character takes to play and how difficult they were, however i mained Quan for nearly 2 months btw so I have a bit more knowledge on him than most other characters I have learned and much more knowledge "2 combos and a couple of wins in ranked" and certainly after 2 months of playing a character I think I'm at least allowed to speak on my OPINIONS on how hard he is to play compared to other characters I had to learn. why you guys try to stop everyone with an opinion you disagree with from even talking lol, try to discredit my statements if they are wrong you should be able to, stop trying to discredit the person posting them

tl;dr

 

[God Confirm]

Woah clam down chowder you act like I just questioned your manhood.

In a perfect world yes everyone is entitled to an opinion. But if your opinion is wrong and others start rallying with you it can cause harm to the community (see Donald trump).

In this case the claim of Quan having easy execution is very untrue, unless you are doing puny combos or relying just on two hit hard to blockables. Both of which are poor strategies in high level play and should not be considered when talking about the ease of use of a character

This is not exclusive with what I said, I don't think any MKX character has "easy" execution except maybe some specific variants, mosty Tanya and Covops. I just said scaled against each other, out of all the characters I've played, Quan was easier to learn than all but Tanya

BTW you're one to talk about overreacting, pages ago i made a sentence long statement about Quan being easier to play than other characters, look what you guys have turned it into. For nothing other than that I've been accused of "attacking and belitting the entire Quan Chi community" amongst plenty else you guys are [pretty hilarious lol

P.S. not sure how saying a character is easier to play than others "could cause harm to the community" even if i was wrong, but whatever

tl;dr

but the novels of text from quan mains u clicked like the button of were not? *looks at your character* yeah im sure you're not just totally bias

 

[colby4898]

but the novels of text from quan mains u clicked like the button of were not? *looks at your character* yeah im sure you're not just totally bias

touchy

 

[colby4898]

but the novels of text from quan mains u clicked like the button of were not? *looks at your character* yeah im sure you're not just totally bias

Also Idk which novel i liked that your referring too.

 

[Capatan Azn Man]

This feels like high school all over again.

 

[Rude]

This is not exclusive with what I said, I don't think any MKX character has "easy" execution except maybe some specific variants, mosty Tanya and Covops. I just said scaled against each other, out of all the characters I've played, Quan was easier to learn than all but Tanya

BTW you're one to talk about overreacting, pages ago i made a sentence long statement about Quan being easier to play than other characters, look what you guys have turned it into. For nothing other than that I've been accused of "attacking and belitting the entire Quan Chi community" amongst plenty else you guys are freaking hilarious lol

P.S. not sure how saying a character is easier to play than others "could cause harm to the community" but whatever

but the novels of text from quan mains u clicked like the button of were not? *looks at your character* yeah im sure you're not just totally bias

If you offer an opinion in a public forum, there is a distinct possibility people will challenge it.

That's the nature of public discussion. Using your "personal experience" as testimonial evidence to back your claims, then backpeddling with, "it's just my opinion" doesn't shield you from that.

If you can't handle having your evidence(in this case your "personal experience") questioned and your opinion challenged by other, dissenting opinions, then clearly public debate and discussion isn't for you.

Given the victim narrative you're creating, it's clear that you can't handle it and should consider if public discussion is really right for you.

Which major will you be attending? Final Round or CEO? I can base my plans accordingly and see about possibly finding you a spot in the hotel room, then we can play to your heart's content.

 

[OnlineSkunk]

If they didn't made the low bat a mid then they didn't listen to the Quan haters scrubs some of you guys are talking about in this thread , that and making his rune +10 should do. It'd bring the character from braindead tier to S tier

 

[God Confirm]

Can guarantee, this will be the last time i ever try defend Quan. Do you guys even recall the original statement that you been attacking me over for the last 3 pages.

Someone called him "braindead" and I said even though he was one of the easiest characters I've learned, he isn't at all braindead. I still play the damn character i was not attacking him lol. You guys should be going at that dude instead of me, to bad all Rude knows is senseless arguments and word wars. 4

Which major will you be attending? Final Round or CEO? I can base my plans accordingly and see about possibly finding you a spot in the hotel room, then we can play to your heart's content.

When the hell did I say I'm attending a major? I have a busy life outside of fighting games (my hobby) now I have to come play you in a major? you serious?