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Match-Up Discussion - Mileena Mileena Matchup Discussion

You don't think a match ' winner, or most matches, are determined by who makes the least mistakes?
Of course that's how a winner is determined, but that's not how a matchup is determined on paper. Throughout the roster, there are good matchups and bad matchups, and they are independent of the players playing the match.
 
Of course that's how a winner is determined, but that's not how a matchup is determined on paper. Throughout the roster, there are good matchups and bad matchups, and they are independent of the players playing the match.
Meh, now you're getting into things that I find irrelevant. Just my opinion. Characters don't fight characters. It's all about who is playing which character and how they play the said matchup.
 

JDE

Pick up & kill it & kill it & kill it!
You don't think a match ' winner, or most matches, are determined by who makes the least mistakes?
That's 2 different scenarios. The difference in between are that the character may have issues & that the player just knows how to outplay his opponent. Same thing with characters & players in general. A player can be bad, but still use a solid character & a player can be good, but still use a bad character.

Character match ups are viewed both theoretically & gameplay wise. You & others are stating facts based on player's skills, but not the characters vs another character. Baiting will always be in fighting games no matter what you play, no matter what character that you use, good, bad, or mediocre. That doesn't determine a match factor.
 
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JDE

Pick up & kill it & kill it & kill it!
Finally got around to this. The d3 xx Ex Roll seems to be a consistent option, you can do the same with standing 2 but is hella risky as it seems easier to mistime. Jump and run to B12 xx Roll works, Telekick works at the recovery, if you do it too early it will whiff.

@JDE I play against Scorpion and Jax a lot and those matches are not fun at all. I will say that with the telekick buff it should be easier to deal with minions as you can whiff punish them and use the advantage. Jax is just Jax
I only find Jax tougher to deal with than Scorpion because of his options on wake up. I would say both of those matches are like 4-6 for her as of right now.

I just wish that people would stop with the "pick a top tier to be good" attitude & just put in work with who they really want to play. That's one of the reasons why the SF community offline in the tournament scene is so huge other than they love the game in general.
 
@Aqueous_Echo - Matchups are based off of one character's tools vs the other character's tools. Usually, one character's tool kit does better or worse depending on what the opponent has to stop it. If Mileena can run a strategy that say, Jacqui can't punish her hard for, but Scorpion can, then that has nothing to do with how close in skill level the players are. That's what makes them relevant.

Sure, even bad matchups can be won, but matchups are still present. How many situations do Mileena's opponents have the advantage? How often does Mileena have the advantage? If Mileena can put the opponent in situations that favor her more than them, that's important. Same goes the other way.
 
I just wish that people would stop with the "pick a top tier to be good" attitude & just put in work with who they really want to play.
100% this. I always pick out a main before I get a game. And, I will say that it does make it frustrating when the character you want to play feels as though they lack important things, but jumping to whoever's hot just for the chance at a few trophies... I dunno, just isn't for me. Now, if Mileena somehow got buffed to top tier, best believe I'll run with that shit, lol.
 
100% this. I always pick out a main before I get a game. And, I will say that it does make it frustrating when the character you want to play feels as though they lack important things, but jumping to whoever's hot just for the chance at a few trophies... I dunno, just isn't for me. Now, if Mileena somehow got buffed to top tier, best believe I'll run with that shit, lol.
I agree with the both of you. I've always liked kenshi the most. In this game he doesn't have many options as far as moveset and what he does have, tele lift for example, isn't for anti airs (too slow) so I guess it's for combo extender... what combos you can get off considering his mixup game is jade tier.

In any case I still have the highest w/l with him but I don't pick him against top level players. Mileena is my MKX main until kenshi gets help. I don't mean MK9 kenshi wishlist either but he needs some solid tweaks.

Also, @ZeroEffect I understand matchups but people jump too far into that stuff and I'm sitting here like... put it to test in a match. I don't care what it says on paper.
 

JDE

Pick up & kill it & kill it & kill it!
I have a lot of characters that I enjoy, just I wanted to play Mileena & Scorpion in this game this time around. So I've been devoting all of my time into them equally.
 
I have a lot of characters that I enjoy, just I wanted to play Mileena & Scorpion in this game this time around. So I've been devoting all of my time into them equally.
I've always liked Mileena, but didn't like her style in mk9. I couldn't ever get myself feeling comfortable with her. However, she feels so fluid in this game and when I played her for the first time in the lab I was hooked. Haven't looked back either.

It's funny, especially on stream, when I beat an inferno scorp, raiden, johnny, or Erron I'm always like... "tell me Mileena is low tier now" -_-
 
Also, @ZeroEffect I understand matchups but people jump too far into that stuff and I'm sitting here like... put it to test in a match. I don't care what it says on paper.
Eh, it's more the likelihood of this shit working over a series of matches. I agree, sometimes people get caught up in "theory-fighter", but you also get the opposite, where people base everything off of a series of crazy dice rolls that ended up in their favor. If you are 10 for 10 on hard reads, you can make even the worst of matchups look favorable, lol. If you're 7/10 against a bad matchup, you could still end up losing. That's really the difference, imo.

and man, I thought MK9 Mileena was solid, but she ended up falling to bottom 10 when the chars worse than her all got buffed while she stayed the same. If they had only given her armor, (The EX Roll she has now would've filled so many issues), she could've been pretty close to top tier. (She already did ok vs two of the most broken chars in the game, Kabal and Cyrax) And if she had Low sai... please.
 
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JDE

Pick up & kill it & kill it & kill it!
I've always liked Mileena, but didn't like her style in mk9. I couldn't ever get myself feeling comfortable with her. However, she feels so fluid in this game and when I played her for the first time in the lab I was hooked. Haven't looked back either.

It's funny, especially on stream, when I beat an inferno scorp, raiden, johnny, or Erron I'm always like... "tell me Mileena is low tier now" -_-
Mileena was sick in MK9. She wasn't one of the best characters in the game, but she hung with everyone well. She had matches that she had to work for, but she would place Top 8 & Top 16.
 

TheGabStandard

The anticipation is killing me
I only find Jax tougher to deal with than Scorpion because of his options on wake up. I would say both of those matches are like 4-6 for her as of right now.

I just wish that people would stop with the "pick a top tier to be good" attitude & just put in work with who they really want to play. That's one of the reasons why the SF community offline in the tournament scene is so huge other than they love the game in general.
His options on wakeup is annoying. F1 can beat wake-up dash punches but have to end combos in 21u4, also you get noting from it as he's mid air........actually F12+4 might work, gonna have to give it a try.

As for the pick a top tier attitude I guess it all depends on your goals in the game. If you are aiming to win money right at the start then yeah top tier is the way to go. Aside from that the idea of "character sucks, go top tier" slows down the development of characters and the game. it's just a shame some people cannot see the long term effects if everyone actually followed that advice
 
Against Inferno Scorpion, can you D3 under Overhead Minions? I'm wondering if that can be done on reaction when you're low blocking.
Also, if you get hit with Overhead Minion, you are at advantage. So I don't think you lose too much by committing to low block.

@theGabStandard @JDE
 

TheGabStandard

The anticipation is killing me
Against Inferno Scorpion, can you D3 under Overhead Minions? I'm wondering if that can be done on reaction when you're low blocking.
Also, if you get hit with Overhead Minion, you are at advantage. So I don't think you lose too much by committing to low block.

@theGabStandard @JDE
I have never tried d3 against overhead minion. Will give it a go though.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
So after playing against my former main (Cassie) yesterday with Mileena, I found that you can regular ball roll through b12-4. Lol, I thought Cassie only had a 7f gap between the last two hits post patch, but it appears that Mileena's 8f roll can punish her if she commits to the full string, without using meter.
Since both regular and EX roll are hella punishable, I don't see why using regular roll (on a read) isn't sufficient in most cases.

Thoughts?
b ut how will u not lose against me when u dont play cassie
 

JDE

Pick up & kill it & kill it & kill it!
Against Inferno Scorpion, can you D3 under Overhead Minions? I'm wondering if that can be done on reaction when you're low blocking.
Also, if you get hit with Overhead Minion, you are at advantage. So I don't think you lose too much by committing to low block.

@theGabStandard @JDE
I haven't tried it, yet, but this seems like a really legit strat against them. Even still, the way the variation plays out, he uses his minion charge & overhead minion to force a reaction so that he can rush you down. Ball roll avoids it & gets you closer into D4 & B12 range without him having to hit you in any way, so that you can play him that way too. I will look into this though & get back to you. Her sais come out faster so you could do that, but you also have to watch for his teleport kick because it whiff punishes her sais. Either that or he'll use it to get in with the teleport delay.

Edit: if he tries it when you're right outside of character length (D4/B12/Sweeping distance), then Roll, B12 (if you're closer), & F4 will whiff punish his 2 minions. This is her idea range, but if he's crazy enough to try it to force a reaction, you get a guaranteed punish. His EX Minion overhead knocks you down, but I don't remember if it's techable or not.
 
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AC1984

Kaballin!
What do you mean?
I feel that trying to zone out Grandmaster is almost a waste of time...Up close you have the 50/50 enders but after low sai hits, I still lose control...What do I do then? I just cant figure that match up out....
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
So after playing against my former main (Cassie) yesterday with Mileena, I found that you can regular ball roll through b12-4. Lol, I thought Cassie only had a 7f gap between the last two hits post patch, but it appears that Mileena's 8f roll can punish her if she commits to the full string, without using meter.
Since both regular and EX roll are hella punishable, I don't see why using regular roll (on a read) isn't sufficient in most cases.

Thoughts?
building on that, normal roll also interupts kung laos 44 so you dont have to use meter on that either :D:D
 

JDE

Pick up & kill it & kill it & kill it!
His options on wakeup is annoying. F1 can beat wake-up dash punches but have to end combos in 21u4, also you get noting from it as he's mid air........actually F12+4 might work, gonna have to give it a try.

As for the pick a top tier attitude I guess it all depends on your goals in the game. If you are aiming to win money right at the start then yeah top tier is the way to go. Aside from that the idea of "character sucks, go top tier" slows down the development of characters and the game. it's just a shame some people cannot see the long term effects if everyone actually followed that advice
It's not the money part. Yeah if you have characters with a bad match up, then yes, you should use a character who is relatively better, but generally, like how the game's is in its current stage, no. Everyone wants to find stuff right then & there. When this stuff takes time. That's why I'm waiting it out. I'm generally an offline tournament player, too; I'm just new to the offline scene to people in the MK kommunity.

I mean I'm not even 100% positive on who I'll be playing long term but it'll be one of my favorites. It's in between Mileena, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, & Kitana. While I enjoy Raiden, Kung Lao & Liu Kang, they don't really interest me like the ninjas do. I'm still holding onto Mileena as a current starter because that's who I started with while exploring the other 4 while playing (before ultimately deciding on my true main).. I'm trying to wait it out to make my move. I'm hoping that she's fine, though.

Me as a player, I'm usually a guy who likes to play at a quick pace & play uptempo. I can do that with her, but it's only a certain time that I can. While others, I practically can, but the knockdowns with them I haven't learned deeply as I have with her.
 
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TheGabStandard

The anticipation is killing me
It's not the money part. Yeah if you have characters with a bad match up, then yes, you should use a character who is relatively better, but generally, like how the game's is in its current stage, no. Everyone wants to find stuff right then & there. When this stuff takes time. That's why I'm waiting it out. I'm generally an offline tournament player, too; I'm just new to the offline scene to people in the MK kommunity.

I mean I'm not even 100% positive on who I'll be playing long term but it'll be one of my favorites. It's in between Mileena, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, & Kitana. While I enjoy Raiden, Kung Lao & Liu Kang, they don't really interest me like the ninjas do. I'm still holding onto Mileena as a current starter because that's who I started with while exploring the other 4 while playing (before ultimately deciding on my true main).. I'm trying to wait it out to make my move. I'm hoping that she's fine, though.

Me as a player, I'm usually a guy who likes to play at a quick pace & play uptempo. I can do that with her, but it's only a certain time that I can. While others, I practically can, but the knockdowns with them I haven't learned deeply as I have with her.
I agree, patience is a virtue and not many people are displaying that. Hopefully that will change and people grind out the characters and variations they want to play.

Also exploring Jax on wakeup if you end combos in 21U4 you can F1 his wakeups. Dash Punch puts him airborne so F1 will unfortunately not turn to a full combo. You could either follow up with F12 xx Ex Tele xx Air Sai for 20% or the easier option is to do 2+4 to force a restand. Gotcha Grab is harder to stuff as it is 7f startup but if you can its a full combo punish. Since it also hits high and you make the hard read you can neutral duck Gotcha Grab and punish.