Match-Up Discussion - Mileena Mileena Matchup Discussion

[TheGabStandard]

@JDE @theGabStandard I'm pretty sure Jax can wakeup Dash Punch overhead version. So keep that in mind when baiting him to wake up.

You are right

 

[JDE]

@JDE @theGabStandard I'm pretty sure Jax can wakeup Dash Punch overhead version. So keep that in mind when baiting him to wake up.

Yeah that's what I was also looking for. F1 lands it, but because there's so many versions of the dash punch, it's really hard to predict what's coming from him.

 

[Johnny San]

How well are you guys punishing Jason's Teleport? Instead of Rolling, I've opted to JI2. It catches standard Teles most of the time. Ex-Teles are put into pressure. Basically a safer way to handle the Teleport as we might not catch them right off the bat 100% of the time.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Got to play a little online and try out some less familiar MUs and these are my thoughts. Any tips for any of these would be appreciated. (I also fought Erron, Sub, KJ, Cass, and Takeda, but tbh the players were all bad and I learned very little about them, lol.)

Scorpion (Inferno)
- Scorp's Takedown feels almost free up close, since his overhead is actually quite fast. You also have to be careful of the Low Minion.

- Minion zoning can be dealt with using Telekick MOST of the time. Sometimes, if you're too late the Overhead Minion will anti-air you. In Roll range, Roll beats ALL of it. (EN Telekick can sometimes not hit properly and you waste meter. Regular Telekick works fine with the buffs)

- If you do get caught blocking Minions, you're better off just taking the overhead hits; they don't knock down/give combos, and you're at advantage. You can keep closing in to Roll range.

- Out of the MUs I have listed here, THIS one is the one where I really wish Ethereal fade was faster or invincible frames on startup. I switched to Ethereal for a few games, and did pretty well. But It was impossible to react to minions with Fade. I had to read where he wanted to setup Minion Zoning and just mix up the delay timing. But goddammit, Ethereal was made for this kind of situation.


Reptile (Noxious)
- Ugh, welp... Dash and Claw Swipe are practically safe online, even on good connections. The guy I fought would just armor through knowing my punish attempt would be too late.

- Reptile just completely outclasses Mileena in normals. She's just too slow. I was forced to try my damndest to D3, D4, and B12 to keep him farther out.

- B34 is a knockdown Low/Mid/Mid string that Mileena can't punish. (Not even Offline, I tested) It's extremely hard to deal with when factoring in the many Overheads F4,1 and Reptile can start combos with.

- NEVER TELEKICK ON REACTION TO SLIME BALL. You will get combed on hit. (EX Tele might be ok.) Once in Roll range, Slime balls and Acid spit both lose to Roll.

- Mixing up Sais (including Low Sai in Piercing) with IAS is frustrating for Reptile to navigate without spending bar. Most of my wins came from a more zoning heavy strategy. Low sai beats Acid spit clean, and at range, recovers quick enough to allow you to block the slow Slime Ball.

- Also, is there any way to avoid losing health/being chipped out by his gas? It seems impossible to try and make comebacks if he just Dashes and sits in low block.


Goro (Kuatan Warrior)
- No idea how to properly deal with Tele Stomp on reaction. (You can't do Jump back Punch/Kick like MK9). Best solution I improvised, was Roll away or Telekick and swap positions. Is that the best way to handle it?? Let me know.

- Ground Pound hits full screen. Forced me to Jump off the ground. Is this just a Godlike mixup on oki where I have to Jump to avoid Ground pound and risk being anti-aired? When I read it right, I got full JIP combos. If I tried delayed wakeup I got hit.

- Goro's low kick has insane range. Trying to bait and punish was out of the question. Just took my free chip with Low sai or jumped over him.

- Goro's EX Punch Walk beats Mileena's wakeup EX Roll. Too many hits on it.

...That's all I have for now. Please feel free to help if you have ideas on how to beat some of this stuff.

 

[TheGabStandard]

How are people finding the Bojitsu Kung Jin matchup? Is there anyway to anti-air his jump ins or do I just have to hold them?

 

[EndofGameBoss]

@ZeroEffect I've spent a decent amount of time grinding out the Reptile MU. You're pretty much right. The best approach is to low sai about 3/4 of the screen away from your opponent and hope they do something silly. Once they respect your zoning and anti air roll you can go in a little more. It does suck you weren't punishing dash and claw online. I punish it 9 out of 10 times with a yellow connection.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

How are people finding the Bojitsu Kung Jin matchup? Is there anyway to anti-air his jump ins or do I just have to hold them?

Don't try to air to air Kung Jin. If you sense they're going to dive kick/smash with him, just hold your ground and punish accordingly after the block. That dive kick/smash is highly punishable with anything mileena has to offer aside from her f343 as I think it is a bit too slow to punish that blocked dive kick.

Anyways, use 21, 124 roll, or even b12 into full combo punish

 

[ZeroEffect]

@ZeroEffect I've spent a decent amount of time grinding out the Reptile MU. You're pretty much right. The best approach is to low sai about 3/4 of the screen away from your opponent and hope they do something silly. Once they respect your zoning and anti air roll you can go in a little more. It does suck you weren't punishing dash and claw online. I punish it 9 out of 10 times with a yellow connection.

Well, this was my first time fighting MKX Reptile. And to be fair, the guy wasn't that bad. He mixed it up well. Maybe if I had been more familiar with the animation and the extremely brief blockstun it would've helped. But believe me I tried! I got a few Uppercuts in, but usually not even that. I took it to the lab immediately, and it felt like I had all day to Roll. Even B1,2 was punishing it. If you're punishing it that often on a worse than green connection, the Reptile player must be getting predictable with it.

Claw is safer than Dash, and I never punished it once in that set. I eventually just said "fuck it, treat this move like it's advantage".

I just wish her normals weren't so slow, or at least moved her forward a bit as the string goes on. Her 123, her 21, and standing 4, she damn near stays in place. (And don't get me started on her buggy D1). Meanwhile, Reptile's F2,1 and D1 just stuff your spacing attempts.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

How are people finding the Bojitsu Kung Jin matchup? Is there anyway to anti-air his jump ins or do I just have to hold them?

Also to add, you could also back dash when sensing the dive kick you could get off f343 into full combo.

 

[JDE]

Another note: Sub-Zero's ice ball (normal) is punished by her ball roll. However, his EX ball is safe. Liu Kang's low fireball trades with her low sai, but she loses the trade for the most part. His is stronger.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Tested a few answers vs Goro's Punch Walk into EX Punch Walk setup. If you block Punch Walk, you should be able to respond with one of these:
- D3~EX Roll. If done correctly the D3 eats the first hit of armor, and EX Roll takes care of the rest. There were a few times it still lost, but this is one option.
- Jump over him during the EX Punch Walk, run behind him and punish with B12~Roll, or EX Telekick. Gotta commit to the read.

- Or if your lazy or out of stamina, Jump over and raw Ex Telekick, or Jump over and regular Telekick into X-Ray.

@Mr. Mileena @TakeAChance @theGabStandard @JDE @MsMiharo @Johnny San @RM Yoaks anyone else I forgot. I tested this as thoroughly as I could, but just in case I got the timing wrong, can one of you test this to make sure these all work consistently? It's actually pretty tough to time the Record AI to get EX Punch Walk out as fast as possible during blockstun. Thanks.

 

[LionHeart]

So after playing against my former main (Cassie) yesterday with Mileena, I found that you can regular ball roll through b12-4. Lol, I thought Cassie only had a 7f gap between the last two hits post patch, but it appears that Mileena's 8f roll can punish her if she commits to the full string, without using meter.
Since both regular and EX roll are hella punishable, I don't see why using regular roll (on a read) isn't sufficient in most cases.

Thoughts?

 

[JDE]

After getting more experience against some good players, I can tell that she's going to have issues against the following:
Raiden
Scorpion
Jax.
Sub-Zero

I'm not just going by 1 or 2 variations. I'm talking all of them. All 4 of them have the frames to where she doesn't want to be in their faces, but that's not why I think she's going have issues. It's the fact that they have ways to bypass any kind of range game right that instant. Mileena has a certain comfort zone that she has to play & it's not at the back of the screen. It's just in character length (sweeping distance). From there, to just right outside of it, but she also doesn't want to play in your face.

Scorpion's footsies are amazing. They are a lot better than what players believe. Just like Mileena, he plays right within character length for the most part, but he's wanting to be upclose more than playing back off of people. He wants to use D1, D2, D3, & D4 to get his advantage & then pressure. If he's not D4 range, his F3, B3, 21, & B12 are whiff punishers that can be cancelled into combos. B3 in general is a starting low mixup string, which is awesome in this game.

Most of Scorpion's players are going play Inferno & Hellfire. Hellfire he doesn't have as much in range, but he can chuck his fireball out to test your response. He has his teleport to keep her in check, but of course it can be baited into a punish. However, that's easier said than done because he can also delay the teleport & then block your reaction to him getting to the other side of the screen after you've recovered from throwing a sai. Also, keep in mind that just like his teleport "can be baited", so can Mileena's sais. The teleport punch will punish her for throwing them carelessly.

Another thing that will punish Mileena is his leg takedown. So if she's throwing a standing sai, then expect to be taken down with BF4, which is also a whiff punisher (just not as good as the other options since it's riskier). Another thing that you will have to watch for with Scorpion are his hellfire, & his minion tools. Hellfire is not blockable, but Minion grab is. If you duck or jump, then he's hitting you with his minion drop. If you stand still, he's going to find a way to hit you with his charging minion. Now he doesn't have to land a hit on you. He just wants you to respond to it, run in & then come & get you. She does have ball roll to keep him in check, so he'll think twice about doing it. Sais as well, but he will find a way to come & get you is the main point. Whether it be him coming in after you respond or be using his teleport & having to delay it.

I'll explain the other's later on. I didn't want to make a TL;DR post.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

After getting more experience against some good players, I can tell that she's going to have issues against the following:
Raiden
Scorpion
Jax.
Sub-Zero

I'm not just going by 1 or 2 variations. I'm talking all of them. All 4 of them have the frames to where she doesn't want to be in their faces, but that's not why I think she's going have issues. It's the fact that they have ways to bypass any kind of range game right that instant. Mileena has a certain comfort zone that she has to play & it's not at the back of the screen. It's just in character length (sweeping distance). From there, to just right outside of it.

Scorpion's footsies are amazing. They are a lot better than what players believe. Just like Mileena, he plays right within character length for the most part, but he's wanting to be upclose more than playing back off of people. He wants to use D1, D2, D3, & D4 to get his advantage & then pressure. If he's not D4 range, his F3, B3, 21, & B12 are whiff punishers that can be cancelled into combos. B3 in general is a starting low mixup string, which is awesome in this game.

Most of Scorpion's players are going play Inferno & Hellfire. Hellfire he doesn't have as much in range, but he can chuck his fireball out to test your response. He has his teleport to keep her in check, but of course it can be baited into a punish. However, that's easier said than done because he can also delay the teleport & then block your reaction to him getting to the other side of the screen after you've recovered from throwing a sai. Also, keep in mind that just like his teleport "can be baited", so can Mileena's sais. The teleport punch will punish her for throwing them carelessly.

Another thing that will punish Mileena is his leg takedown. So if she's throwing a standing sai, then expect to be taken down with BF4, which is also a whiff punisher (just not as good as the other options since it's riskier). Another thing that you will have to watch for with Scorpion are his hellfire, & his minion tools. Hellfire is not blockable, but Minion grab is. If you duck or jump, then he's hitting you with his minion drop. If you stand still, he's going to find a way to hit you with his charging minion. Now he doesn't have to land a hit on you. He just wants you to respond to it, run in & then come & get you. She does have ball roll to keep him in check, so he'll think twice about doing it. Sais as well, but he will find a way to come & get you is the main point.

I'll explain the other's later on. I didn't want to make a TL;DR post.

I had a few sets with a high level sub zero player (FML firewall using grandmaster) not too long ago. The matchup started off with me winning match 1 then losing the next 3. I had to readjust. The biggest thing I noticed was you can telekick punish ice clone. IF the opponent is staying behind the clone, and decided to throw ice ball, TELEKICK. It eliminates the clone and if you enhance you get full combo off of enhanced kick.

In the end we ended with 10 wins even.

 

[JDE]

I had a few sets with a high level sub zero player (FML firewall using grandmaster) not too long ago. The matchup started off with me winning match 1 then losing the next 3. I had to readjust. The biggest thing I noticed was you can telekick punish ice clone. IF the opponent is staying behind the clone, and decided to throw ice ball, TELEKICK. It eliminates the clone and if you enhance you get full combo off of enhanced kick.

In the end we ended with 10 wins even.

Oh I haven't given a match number, yet. I was just listing notes. Yeah, I agree. She also punishes his strings that lead to a normal ice ball with ball roll. Ex Ice ball however is safe.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

Oh I haven't given a match number, yet. I was just listing notes. Yeah, I agree. She also punishes his string that lead to a normal ice ball with ball roll. Ex Ice ball however is safe.

I couldn't give matchup numbers myself, but those small things you find to punish in a match is the funnest part of any fighting game that releases. The best part, there were a few more things uncovered, was that sub is not safe behind ice clone. Especially if he decided to ice ball from behind it or even inside of it.

 

[JDE]

Honestly, depending on how decent her match ups are will determine he spot in the tier list. Like I feel like a lot of her matches are even with being decent & then some where she has outplay her opponents. This is my opinion, though. She has potential, but just sucks that she's not quick, which she never was, but even more unsafe than before.

 

[The_Furax]

KJ destroys her.

 

[dotunderscore]

KJ destroys her.

I'm not sure yet - I prefer Kitana in the MU because zoning seems to annoy him the most and my Air fans are more consistent than Air sais currently. He has to get in and I think that is where she has a chance

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

KJ destroys her.

KJ is hella punishable. You just have to be smart and bait him. He's a tough matchups to deal with for most every character but KJ is easily punished when baited.

 

[MetalFace]

I dunno baiting him is pretty hard. EX bo spin has armor, leads to a full combo, is -6 on block, and pushes him half screen on block for some absurd reason. Only way to bait it is neutral jumping and then you risk eating the freaking halfscreen overhead swing. On his wakeup F1 blows it up but otherwise beating it is tough imo.

What else are you punishing consistently?

 

[JDE]

Baiting is something that everyone can do in any game. It doesn't determine how good or bad the odds will be in a match up lol.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

I dunno baiting him is pretty hard. EX bo spin has armor, leads to a full combo, is -6 on block, and pushes him half screen on block for some absurd reason. Only way to bait it is neutral jumping and then you risk eating the freaking halfscreen overhead swing. On his wakeup F1 blows it up but otherwise beating it is tough imo.

What else are you punishing consistently?

It's not easy to beat him for sure but I've rolled under some his swings (while he's swinging), definitely full comboed his blocked dive kick/slam, and mainly making him jump through said both in air and mixup mid/low sais.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

Baiting is something that everyone can do in any game. It doesn't determine how good or bad the odds will be in a match up lol.

You don't think a match ' winner, or most matches, are determined by who makes the least mistakes?

 

[TheGabStandard]

Tested a few answers vs Goro's Punch Walk into EX Punch Walk setup. If you block Punch Walk, you should be able to respond with one of these:
- D3~EX Roll. If done correctly the D3 eats the first hit of armor, and EX Roll takes care of the rest. There were a few times it still lost, but this is one option.
- Jump over him during the EX Punch Walk, run behind him and punish with B12~Roll, or EX Telekick. Gotta commit to the read.

- Or if your lazy or out of stamina, Jump over and raw Ex Telekick, or Jump over and regular Telekick into X-Ray.

@Mr. Mileena @TakeAChance @theGabStandard @JDE @MsMiharo @Johnny San @RM Yoaks anyone else I forgot. I tested this as thoroughly as I could, but just in case I got the timing wrong, can one of you test this to make sure these all work consistently? It's actually pretty tough to time the Record AI to get EX Punch Walk out as fast as possible during blockstun. Thanks.

Finally got around to this. The d3 xx Ex Roll seems to be a consistent option, you can do the same with standing 2 but is hella risky as it seems easier to mistime. Jump and run to B12 xx Roll works, Telekick works at the recovery, if you do it too early it will whiff.

@JDE I play against Scorpion and Jax a lot and those matches are not fun at all. I will say that with the telekick buff it should be easier to deal with minions as you can whiff punish them and use the advantage. Jax is just Jax