General/Other - Kano KANO IS LIKE, BOTTOM ZERO GUYS

[Rude]

Nope, they're legit command grabs.

Why does a character have to place top 8 to be doing well? Raiden didn't make top 8, neither did Cassie, neither did Jin or Jax. Are they not good enough? Does not placing top 8 at that one tournament on that one day out of all tournaments on all days make them bad? No, that's down to the player, and the players of those characters didn't happen to outplay their opponents that day. Kano got top 32, which at a 1000 man tournament I'd say is fine.

Also, "fine" isn't winning, is it?

 

[Youphemism]

Cassie, Raiden and others have made top 8 at a very consistent basis before hand.

How many top 8s has Cyber Kano made since the game's launch?

If you compete at a tournament, do you enter thinking, "Boy, i sure hope i get top 32!"

Think back to MK9's EVO appearances.

You can easily remember who won or placed 2nd, or some of the top 8 players.

Can you tell me who placed top 32 at any of them?

Was the pot split for top 32?

How much does ESL award for top 32?

Or MLG?

EVO?

Am i making my point clear?

That's not a fair question because you're only counting majors. Cyber Kano has made top 8 at a number of tournaments, but not as many majors.

What does "Boy, i sure hope i get top 32!" got to do with how good or bad Kano is? And what does MK9 have to do with it? Tournament top 8s do not define how good a character is, that is a testament to the player. Reptile must be godlike now right?

Also, "fine" isn't winning, is it?

So? Raiden doesn't win, Cassie doesn't win, Jax doesn't win. What's your point? Fine means he's a viable character that can win if the player outplays their opponent or the matchup is in his favour, like any character. Since you want to refer to past games look at how Chris G managed to win things with Green Arrow of all characters, that's because he outplayed his opponent. Kano is stronger than Green Arrow and this game is more balanced so all it takes is the right player to win. Also look at the number of Kanos, there's less of a chance of him winning if there's less representation. Don't just put it to the character being bad.

 

[Rude]

That's not a fair question because you're only counting majors. Cyber Kano has made top 8 at a number of tournaments, but not as many majors.

What does "Boy, i sure hope i get top 32!" got to do with how good or bad Kano is? And what does MK9 have to do with it? Tournament top 8s do not define how good a character is, that is a testament to the player. Reptile must be godlike now right?

So? Raiden doesn't win, Cassie doesn't win, Jax doesn't win. What's your point? Fine means he's a viable character that can win if the player outplays their opponent or the matchup is in his favour, like any character. Since you want to refer to past games look at how Chris G managed to win things with Green Arrow of all characters, that's because he outplayed his opponent. Kano is stronger than Green Arrow and this game is more balanced so all it takes is the right player to win. Also look at the number of Kanos, there's less of a chance of him winning if there's less representation. Don't just put it to the character being bad.

The reason why i brought up MK 9 was to illustrate why Top 32 doesn't matter. No one remembers who placed top 32 at those tournaments, but they remember the top 8. They remember who won.

Speaking of Chris G, what was the last major he WON after year one of Injustice's life?

Is it far fetched to think that if he had played a better character at the level of his GA, he could have won? No.

Raiden has won a major and the other characters have placed. What was the last MAJOR tournament that Kano placed in?

If EVO is supposed to be indicative of the World's best players, and all of the BEST Kano mains were there, and the best they could manage was top 32, that's mediocre. It's indicative of Kano not being nearly as tournament viable as you say. This is a knock on the character, not the players.

Shinnok has placed at more Majors than Kano.

And no, i don't count nor care about locals. Sorry, but they're not representative of the talent pool that you get at a major.

Why do you think there is so little representation for Kano?

Give me five, tournament viable reasons why I would choose Kano over:

Quan Chi
Tanya
Tempest Lao
Erron Black
D'Vorah


What is my incentive to choose Kano over them if my goal is to win?

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

If Kano is really bottom 3, then this game is incredibly balanced.

Amen to that.

Not gonna lie, though, I'd love to see Kano get a proper push, even if it's just a minor tweak. He's been one of my favorite characters to watch since the start.

 

[Rude]

The problem you're struggling with is consistency.

Reptile did place, true.

But has he placed CONSISTENTLY like Erron Black, Cassie Cage, Raiden, Tanya, or D'Vorah.

How many Tanya players were in CEO's top 8 vs how many Kano's?

And before you start tearing about pre patch Tanya, remember: Kano has had basically the same kit pre and post Tanya nerf. Except for very small alterations.

People like you will do more damage to the Kano Community with your over-blown tournament viability talk than myself, Saltshaker, or m2dave will ever do in being realistic about the character.

 

[GAV]

The reason why i brought up MK 9 was to illustrate why Top 32 doesn't matter. No one remembers who placed top 32 at those tournaments, but they remember the top 8. They remember who won.

Speaking of Chris G, what was the last major he WON after year one of Injustice's life?

Is it far fetched to think that if he had played a better character at the level of his GA, he could have won? No.

Raiden has won a major and the other characters have placed. What was the last MAJOR tournament that Kano placed in?

If EVO is supposed to be indicative of the World's best players, and all of the BEST Kano mains were there, and the best they could manage was top 32, that's mediocre. It's indicative of Kano not being nearly as tournament viable as you say. This is a knock on the character, not the players.

Shinnok has placed at more Majors than Kano.

And no, i don't count nor care about locals. Sorry, but they're not representative of the talent pool that you get at a major.

Why do you think there is so little representation for Kano?

Give me five, tournament viable reasons why I would choose Kano over:

Quan Chi
Tanya
Tempest Lao
Erron Black
D'Vorah


What is my incentive to choose Kano over them if my goal is to win?

If you think the meta is what it is then there is none.

If you think the meta remains undiscovered and you think you have found an undiscovered part of it, then there are plenty of reasons.

I don't know how many majors Chris G has won, but he creatively contributes to the game's meta consistently.

Apart from the meta, what about hype for the games and characters he plays?

Where would Morrigan be in UMVC3 without Chris G? Who would be using Reptile in MKX?

 

[DFC]

To be fair, reptile is a very popular character. He'd have a sizable playerbase regardless of Chris G.

 

[Rude]

O

If you think the meta is what it is then there is none.

If you think the meta remains undiscovered and you think you have found an undiscovered part of it, then there are plenty of reasons.

I don't know how many majors Chris G has won, but he creatively contributes to the game's meta consistently.

Apart from the meta, what about hype for the games and characters he plays?

Where would Morrigan be in UMVC3 without Chris G? Who would be using Reptile in MKX?

I'm not bagging Chris G. I even said that if he had played a better character, he would have done better.

Chris G is awesome.

 

[JustObserver]

The character is viable means he can win a major, do you feel this in Kano?

 

[DFC]

The character is viable means he can win a major, do you feel this in Kano?

This is quite the question. I don't really think I'm entitled to have an opinion on the matter, because I've yet to play ANYONE in a face to face setting, and probably won't until SummerJam unless I decide to take a 4 hour train ride to the break, then a 4 hour train ride back

But my opinion is that just about any character is viable when put in the right hands. When you get to the lower end of the spectrum, you have to put in a whole lot more work(compare filling gas in your car for Bone Shaper Shinnok, to Building a Saturn V in Goro.) And that more(and more) of the top players believe they can achieve better results with other characters, it creates an un-viability by desertion.

If a community ceases to grow, the likelihood of new dirt or tech being found is lessened, moreso when a community shrinks. Now I don't know where Kano truly stands on the effort:success scale, but the common perception is that he's too far to the left.

 

[Youphemism]

Apologies, this one's a little long lol.

The reason why i brought up MK 9 was to illustrate why Top 32 doesn't matter. No one remembers who placed top 32 at those tournaments, but they remember the top 8. They remember who won.

Speaking of Chris G, what was the last major he WON after year one of Injustice's life?

Is it far fetched to think that if he had played a better character at the level of his GA, he could have won? No.

Raiden has won a major and the other characters have placed. What was the last MAJOR tournament that Kano placed in?

If EVO is supposed to be indicative of the World's best players, and all of the BEST Kano mains were there, and the best they could manage was top 32, that's mediocre. It's indicative of Kano not being nearly as tournament viable as you say. This is a knock on the character, not the players.

Shinnok has placed at more Majors than Kano.

And no, i don't count nor care about locals. Sorry, but they're not representative of the talent pool that you get at a major.

Why do you think there is so little representation for Kano?

Give me five, tournament viable reasons why I would choose Kano over:

Quan Chi
Tanya
Tempest Lao
Erron Black
D'Vorah


What is my incentive to choose Kano over them if my goal is to win?

Who cares about remembering who made top 32?! What has this got to do with Kano being good or bad? Lol

Actually Chris G played Batgirl and couldn't win, he had to switch back to GA to win.

Ah but you said Kano ISN'T winning, present tense. Don't just switch so it suits your argument.

EVO is the competition with the most players, but not everyone ends up playing their best on that day. Look at DJT, he got 5th because he wasn't playing as well as he usually does. Please stop with the horrible argument of "tournament placings = character tier" because it is not as good an argument as everyone on this forum seems to think it is. The Commando Kanos were clearly not playing optimally at EVO, do not try and insinuate everything means it's Kanos fault and he's bad instead of the player. Bone Shaper Shinnok didn't even make top 8 over Reptile so that argument is void.

So what if Shinnok has placed at more majors than Kano? Bone Shaper Shinnok's obviously better than Kano anyway so what's your point? Again this has nothing to do with how good or bad Kano is.

For the love of god...(EVERY KANO READING THIS BURN THE FOLLOWING SENTENCES INTO YOUR MIND, THIS IS THE STUPIDEST ARGUMENT YOU CAN USE TO TRY AND SAY KANO IS BAD) if you think that the sole reason for a lack of representation of Kanos in tournament is because he's not viable or a bad character then you're an idiot. (Not a knock on you Rude, I'm just saying)
Here are reasons why a character is underrepresented in no particular order of importance:
1. The character is too technical for players to pick up and play
2. People want easy wins so they pick a top tier character
3. People cannot afford to travel to all the tournaments (or at least majors) across America
4. They are loyal to another character and will not play more than that one character
5. The character does not fit the archetype a player wants to play, ie someone who plays rushdown won't play a zoner
6. A counterpicker may decide to play a different character because the matchup then becomes advantageous for them
7. Or of course there is the slim possibility that the character is just not going to win any matches, but even then in the case of Kano that's not true because then Showtime wouldn't have made top 32 at EVO. So please do not try and say that the reason Kano is not seen so much is only because of his tier placement because I'm tired of hearing that frankly ignorant argument. (Again this isn't just a shot at you Rude but I'm not in a great mood lol)

An arbitrary number of reasons to counter a specific argument selected solely to emphasise that Kano isn't top tier is not going to change anything about how good or bad Kano is. We all know Kano isn't top tier so that's really not worth discussing.

You know what? If you want to win easy peasy straight away by only needing 5 minutes to learn a character then you can just go and play a top tier character (which is what most of the community seems to have gone and done anyway) and you'll have an easier time winning, but what does that achieve for you as a player? Your fundamentals aren't going to improve, in fact they might even lessen if the character's easy enough, but you will find it easier to win. If Kano were easy to win with he'd be rated better than he is but he's not so he isn't, that's just something we have to accept (or at least thought others might accept but clearly didn't). If you want to win and have the wins be more satisfying however then playing a character like Kano is for you. Kano is not an unviable character, he can clearly contend with some of the higher tier characters in the game, but don't expect to learn him in 5 minutes and win. You need to have a solid neutral and great footsies to accentuate what this character excels at, and in the end isn't it a better thing for you as a player to have won with a character that might not have all the same tools the top tiers have but still has the tools to compete? I mean you saw the Tanya mirrors at CEO, they were boring as shit. But Coach Steve vs DJT at EVO? That was hype.
So if you want to summarise both sides in one go it'd look a little like this:
If you want to win...but you want easy wins then spend 5 minutes in practice with a top tier.
If you want to win...but also want to improve as a player then play characters that reward you for having great fundamentals, like Kano.

People like you will do more damage to the Kano Community with your over-blown tournament viability talk than myself, Saltshaker, or m2dave will ever do in being realistic about the character.

That's a horrible attitude to have. How will deciding I don't want a character that doesn't take much effort to win with "damage" the Kano community? The only damage being done is the abhorrent pessimism intoxicating this community since the idea of doing what the Kenshi and Kitana communities did by crying out for buffs (which we were openly criticising might I add) took hold of everyone who isn't actually out at majors. Why do you think it is that Noobe, Showtime, Coach Steve, myself, Royale, I$AAC, FlappyDaniel, and the rest I'm forgetting that I would list are sticking with Kano and think he's pretty much fine (besides fixes obviously)? It's because we are dedicated enough to approaching the character the right way and are dedicated to not only optimising our playstyle with him but also don't mind improving our fundamentals in the process. Also note how most of these people are the only ones in the Kano community actually going to majors and competing and are STILL sticking with the character yet the ones that post online more are the ones that are dropping him.

PS. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's anyone who's opposed to getting a buff or two but it's the constant dreary whining (and arguable downplaying) that's ebbing from the majority of the Kano community that post on TYM often that's really destroying what the Kano community at least started off being about. If people really need an overhead to make the character work it's not the character that's the problem.

 

[dribirut]

The problem you're struggling with is consistency.

Reptile did place, true.

But has he placed CONSISTENTLY like Erron Black, Cassie Cage, Raiden, Tanya, or D'Vorah.

How many Tanya players were in CEO's top 8 vs how many Kano's?

And before you start tearing about pre patch Tanya, remember: Kano has had basically the same kit pre and post Tanya nerf. Except for very small alterations.

People like you will do more damage to the Kano Community with your over-blown tournament viability talk than myself, Saltshaker, or m2dave will ever do in being realistic about the character.

Man like I've told many others, why do you bother arguing with him. We've all tried and it's pointless

 

[Rude]

Apologies, this one's a little long lol.

Who cares about remembering who made top 32?! What has this got to do with Kano being good or bad? Lol

Actually Chris G played Batgirl and couldn't win, he had to switch back to GA to win.

Ah but you said Kano ISN'T winning, present tense. Don't just switch so it suits your argument.

EVO is the competition with the most players, but not everyone ends up playing their best on that day. Look at DJT, he got 5th because he wasn't playing as well as he usually does. Please stop with the horrible argument of "tournament placings = character tier" because it is not as good an argument as everyone on this forum seems to think it is. The Commando Kanos were clearly not playing optimally at EVO, do not try and insinuate everything means it's Kanos fault and he's bad instead of the player. Bone Shaper Shinnok didn't even make top 8 over Reptile so that argument is void.

So what if Shinnok has placed at more majors than Kano? Bone Shaper Shinnok's obviously better than Kano anyway so what's your point? Again this has nothing to do with how good or bad Kano is.

For the love of god...(EVERY KANO READING THIS BURN THE FOLLOWING SENTENCES INTO YOUR MIND, THIS IS THE STUPIDEST ARGUMENT YOU CAN USE TO TRY AND SAY KANO IS BAD) if you think that the sole reason for a lack of representation of Kanos in tournament is because he's not viable or a bad character then you're an idiot. (Not a knock on you Rude, I'm just saying)
Here are reasons why a character is underrepresented in no particular order of importance:
1. The character is too technical for players to pick up and play
2. People want easy wins so they pick a top tier character
3. People cannot afford to travel to all the tournaments (or at least majors) across America
4. They are loyal to another character and will not play more than that one character
5. The character does not fit the archetype a player wants to play, ie someone who plays rushdown won't play a zoner
6. A counterpicker may decide to play a different character because the matchup then becomes advantageous for them
7. Or of course there is the slim possibility that the character is just not going to win any matches, but even then in the case of Kano that's not true because then Showtime wouldn't have made top 32 at EVO. So please do not try and say that the reason Kano is not seen so much is only because of his tier placement because I'm tired of hearing that frankly ignorant argument. (Again this isn't just a shot at you Rude but I'm not in a great mood lol)

An arbitrary number of reasons to counter a specific argument selected solely to emphasise that Kano isn't top tier is not going to change anything about how good or bad Kano is. We all know Kano isn't top tier so that's really not worth discussing.

You know what? If you want to win easy peasy straight away by only needing 5 minutes to learn a character then you can just go and play a top tier character (which is what most of the community seems to have gone and done anyway) and you'll have an easier time winning, but what does that achieve for you as a player? Your fundamentals aren't going to improve, in fact they might even lessen if the character's easy enough, but you will find it easier to win. If Kano were easy to win with he'd be rated better than he is but he's not so he isn't, that's just something we have to accept (or at least thought others might accept but clearly didn't). If you want to win and have the wins be more satisfying however then playing a character like Kano is for you. Kano is not an unviable character, he can clearly contend with some of the higher tier characters in the game, but don't expect to learn him in 5 minutes and win. You need to have a solid neutral and great footsies to accentuate what this character excels at, and in the end isn't it a better thing for you as a player to have won with a character that might not have all the same tools the top tiers have but still has the tools to compete? I mean you saw the Tanya mirrors at CEO, they were boring as shit. But Coach Steve vs DJT at EVO? That was hype.
So if you want to summarise both sides in one go it'd look a little like this:
If you want to win...but you want easy wins then spend 5 minutes in practice with a top tier.
If you want to win...but also want to improve as a player then play characters that reward you for having great fundamentals, like Kano.

That's a horrible attitude to have. How will deciding I don't want a character that doesn't take much effort to win with "damage" the Kano community? The only damage being done is the abhorrent pessimism intoxicating this community since the idea of doing what the Kenshi and Kitana communities did by crying out for buffs (which we were openly criticising might I add) took hold of everyone who isn't actually out at majors. Why do you think it is that Noobe, Showtime, Coach Steve, myself, Royale, I$AAC, FlappyDaniel, and the rest I'm forgetting that I would list are sticking with Kano and think he's pretty much fine (besides fixes obviously)? It's because we are dedicated enough to approaching the character the right way and are dedicated to not only optimising our playstyle with him but also don't mind improving our fundamentals in the process. Also note how most of these people are the only ones in the Kano community actually going to majors and competing and are STILL sticking with the character yet the ones that post online more are the ones that are dropping him.

PS. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's anyone who's opposed to getting a buff or two but it's the constant dreary whining (and arguable downplaying) that's ebbing from the majority of the Kano community that post on TYM often that's really destroying what the Kano community at least started off being about. If people really need an overhead to make the character work it's not the character that's the problem.

Since simple concepts escape you, I'll break it down again:

Why you not remembering top 32 matters is because it proves that making top 32 isn't a big enough accomplishment to worth remembering. It doesn't hold as much weight as top 8 and therefore, does not matter. At all. I don't know how else i can explain it to you other than no one gives a shit about top 32. You don't get paid in top 32. You don't get a trophy in top 32. If you think top 32 matters, i don't know what to tell you.

Next, you make this terrible argument that people were not playing Kano optimally at EVO, as if that somehow excuses his placement.

Do you think every other player wasn't under the same pressure, if not more? It's no excuse. Monitors aren't an excuse. Consoles aren't an excuse. Every player is playing at the same venue, with the same consoles, under the same conditions.

Instead of proving me with objective reasons for why I would choose Kano over the characters mentioned, you gave me a bunch of sentimental garbage.

Kano is not so complex a character that it takes longer than say, a high execution character like D'Vorah or Dragonfire Liu Kang.

What strengths does Kano compliment a player that other characters don't do better?

If you are a footsie player, D'Vorah does it better.

If you zone, Boneshaper Shinnok does it better.

If you do set play, Quan Chi does it better.

If you pressure, Kung Lao does it better.

I asked you a simple guestion and you gave me NO REASONS why I would ever pick Kano over them.

Also, this argument that playing Kano makes you earn your wins more than high tiers is laughable.

Do you think Foxy didn't work hard to make top 8, or to make it to Grand Finals?

Or Ketchup?

Or any other EVO Top 8 placer that played top tier at the highest level?

If you really think that, then you're every bit as clueless as your posts suggest. In high level play, no one wins "easy."

Furthermore, no one gives a shit. No one gives a shit about how hard you have to work to win. You either win or you don't.

As for your pathetic argument about people that can't travel to represent Kano, i don't care. If they can't go to tournament and SHOW US why Kano is this tournament beast you claim, why should i care? It's an excuse.

Why should i care about people I've never heard of?

The game has evolved.
The meta has evolved.
You and your Kano upplay hasn't.

I used to be a huge upplayer of Kano. I was right along side you. Unlike you, i woke up and realized the reality of how this game works.

I swallowed my pride and admitted i was wrong.

Why can't you?

 

[Rude]

Apologies, this one's a little long lol.

Who cares about remembering who made top 32?! What has this got to do with Kano being good or bad? Lol

Actually Chris G played Batgirl and couldn't win, he had to switch back to GA to win.

Ah but you said Kano ISN'T winning, present tense. Don't just switch so it suits your argument.

EVO is the competition with the most players, but not everyone ends up playing their best on that day. Look at DJT, he got 5th because he wasn't playing as well as he usually does. Please stop with the horrible argument of "tournament placings = character tier" because it is not as good an argument as everyone on this forum seems to think it is. The Commando Kanos were clearly not playing optimally at EVO, do not try and insinuate everything means it's Kanos fault and he's bad instead of the player. Bone Shaper Shinnok didn't even make top 8 over Reptile so that argument is void.

So what if Shinnok has placed at more majors than Kano? Bone Shaper Shinnok's obviously better than Kano anyway so what's your point? Again this has nothing to do with how good or bad Kano is.

For the love of god...(EVERY KANO READING THIS BURN THE FOLLOWING SENTENCES INTO YOUR MIND, THIS IS THE STUPIDEST ARGUMENT YOU CAN USE TO TRY AND SAY KANO IS BAD) if you think that the sole reason for a lack of representation of Kanos in tournament is because he's not viable or a bad character then you're an idiot. (Not a knock on you Rude, I'm just saying)
Here are reasons why a character is underrepresented in no particular order of importance:
1. The character is too technical for players to pick up and play
2. People want easy wins so they pick a top tier character
3. People cannot afford to travel to all the tournaments (or at least majors) across America
4. They are loyal to another character and will not play more than that one character
5. The character does not fit the archetype a player wants to play, ie someone who plays rushdown won't play a zoner
6. A counterpicker may decide to play a different character because the matchup then becomes advantageous for them
7. Or of course there is the slim possibility that the character is just not going to win any matches, but even then in the case of Kano that's not true because then Showtime wouldn't have made top 32 at EVO. So please do not try and say that the reason Kano is not seen so much is only because of his tier placement because I'm tired of hearing that frankly ignorant argument. (Again this isn't just a shot at you Rude but I'm not in a great mood lol)

An arbitrary number of reasons to counter a specific argument selected solely to emphasise that Kano isn't top tier is not going to change anything about how good or bad Kano is. We all know Kano isn't top tier so that's really not worth discussing.

You know what? If you want to win easy peasy straight away by only needing 5 minutes to learn a character then you can just go and play a top tier character (which is what most of the community seems to have gone and done anyway) and you'll have an easier time winning, but what does that achieve for you as a player? Your fundamentals aren't going to improve, in fact they might even lessen if the character's easy enough, but you will find it easier to win. If Kano were easy to win with he'd be rated better than he is but he's not so he isn't, that's just something we have to accept (or at least thought others might accept but clearly didn't). If you want to win and have the wins be more satisfying however then playing a character like Kano is for you. Kano is not an unviable character, he can clearly contend with some of the higher tier characters in the game, but don't expect to learn him in 5 minutes and win. You need to have a solid neutral and great footsies to accentuate what this character excels at, and in the end isn't it a better thing for you as a player to have won with a character that might not have all the same tools the top tiers have but still has the tools to compete? I mean you saw the Tanya mirrors at CEO, they were boring as shit. But Coach Steve vs DJT at EVO? That was hype.
So if you want to summarise both sides in one go it'd look a little like this:
If you want to win...but you want easy wins then spend 5 minutes in practice with a top tier.
If you want to win...but also want to improve as a player then play characters that reward you for having great fundamentals, like Kano.

That's a horrible attitude to have. How will deciding I don't want a character that doesn't take much effort to win with "damage" the Kano community? The only damage being done is the abhorrent pessimism intoxicating this community since the idea of doing what the Kenshi and Kitana communities did by crying out for buffs (which we were openly criticising might I add) took hold of everyone who isn't actually out at majors. Why do you think it is that Noobe, Showtime, Coach Steve, myself, Royale, I$AAC, FlappyDaniel, and the rest I'm forgetting that I would list are sticking with Kano and think he's pretty much fine (besides fixes obviously)? It's because we are dedicated enough to approaching the character the right way and are dedicated to not only optimising our playstyle with him but also don't mind improving our fundamentals in the process. Also note how most of these people are the only ones in the Kano community actually going to majors and competing and are STILL sticking with the character yet the ones that post online more are the ones that are dropping him.

PS. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's anyone who's opposed to getting a buff or two but it's the constant dreary whining (and arguable downplaying) that's ebbing from the majority of the Kano community that post on TYM often that's really destroying what the Kano community at least started off being about. If people really need an overhead to make the character work it's not the character that's the problem.

Who asked for an overhead? Not I.

Gee, you know, maybe you're right.

I can see it now: "Sonic Fox won EVO. But fuck him, because i worked HARDER and made top 32! Yaaaaaay! Go team! I didn't want that cash prize, anyway!"

Seriously, Youphemism. Seriously.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for 5 tournament-viable, strategic reasons why I would choose Kano over the named characters.

And double lol at your implication that Kano is too complicated. Is he too complicated for guys like MIT, who is notorious for playing the full cast in NRS games?

Is he too complicated for King, who does the same thing?

Is he too complicated for DJT, who is one of the strongest footsie players in the scene?

Get out of here with that stupid, horse shit argument.

 

[DFC]

So, by your post, Kano is a Jack. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you here, I just have a question. Do you in your opinion think there is a better Jack in MKX?

 

[Rude]

So, by your post, Kano is a Jack. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you here, I just have a question. Do you in your opinion think there is a better Jack in MKX?

I think Kano is mid tier, but only in Cutthroat.

Commando and Cyber are clearly worse.

I really want to know what Kano does better than existing characters.

Honestly, i think Cage MIGHT( I stress the might part) be better. But I'm not certain, as I've yet to see A-List played to full potential at a major.

 

[Rude]

So, by your post, Kano is a Jack. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you here, I just have a question. Do you in your opinion think there is a better Jack in MKX?

Liu Kang might also be there.

 

[Youphemism]

Since simple concepts escape you, I'll break it down again:

Why you not remembering top 32 matters is because it proves that making top 32 isn't a big enough accomplishment to worth remembering. It doesn't hold as much weight as top 8 and therefore, does not matter. At all. I don't know how else i can explain it to you other than no one gives a shit about top 32. You don't get paid in top 32. You don't get a trophy in top 32. If you think top 32 matters, i don't know what to tell you.

Next, you make this terrible argument that people were not playing Kano optimally at EVO, as if that somehow excuses his placement.

Do you think every other player wasn't under the same pressure, if not more? It's no excuse. Monitors aren't an excuse. Consoles aren't an excuse. Every player is playing at the same venue, with the same consoles, under the same conditions.

Instead of proving me with objective reasons for why I would choose Kano over the characters mentioned, you gave me a bunch of sentimental garbage.

Kano is not so complex a character that it takes longer than say, a high execution character like D'Vorah or Dragonfire Liu Kang.

What strengths does Kano compliment a player that other characters don't do better?

If you are a footsie player, D'Vorah does it better.

If you zone, Boneshaper Shinnok does it better.

If you do set play, Quan Chi does it better.

If you pressure, Kung Lao does it better.

I asked you a simple guestion and you gave me NO REASONS why I would ever pick Kano over them.

Also, this argument that playing Kano makes you earn your wins more than high tiers is laughable.

Do you think Foxy didn't work hard to make top 8, or to make it to Grand Finals?

Or Ketchup?

Or any other EVO Top 8 placer that played top tier at the highest level?

If you really think that, then you're every bit as clueless as your posts suggest. In high level play, no one wins "easy."

Furthermore, no one gives a shit. No one gives a shit about how hard you have to work to win. You either win or you don't.

As for your pathetic argument about people that can't travel to represent Kano, i don't care. If they can't go to tournament and SHOW US why Kano is this tournament beast you claim, why should i care? It's an excuse.

Why should i care about people I've never heard of?

The game has evolved.
The meta has evolved.
You and your Kano upplay hasn't.

I used to be a huge upplayer of Kano. I was right along side you. Unlike you, i woke up and realized the reality of how this game works.

I swallowed my pride and admitted i was wrong.

Why can't you?

Right, but someone not getting top 8 isn't the topic of discussion it's how good or bad Kano is.

Terrible argument? Tell me where the Commando Kanos were using their parries then? Tick throws? You might see it once or twice if you're lucky. If you think they were playing him optimally you're mistaken.

Lol because getting better as a player is "sentimental garbage".

No character in MKX is necessarily "complex" and no Kano doesn't have the hardest to pull off moves or combos in the game but that doesn't make him easy to win with.

The fact you're ignoring what I did tell you tells me you're too busy listening to everyone else say he's shit to come to your own opinion. Just because others do it better doesn't mean he's shit at it.

I didn't say winning with a higher tier character doesn't require effort but when your character has better pressure/mixups/whatever it does become easier.

No YOU don't give a shit. The Kano players who do give a shit are still playing him and aren't busy bitching about how unviable or shit or low tier he is. They're the ones competing and, oh wait, not dropping him. Think about that.

Wow, so having no money is a "pathetic argument"? That's low.

What does how known a person is got to do with Kano's viability?! Again with the random questions/arguments.

The game IS evolving, the meta IS evolving, I am just not a guy that prefers to bitch and whine when I can lab and play matchups. You know, work on getting better and all that "sentimental garbage".

I don't concede to pessimism. I'd rather work on being a good player and good with my character than finding shit excuses to make a character sound much worse than they are for the selfish reason of deciding to rely on the character more than myself.

Who asked for an overhead? Not I.

Gee, you know, maybe you're right.

I can see it now: "Sonic Fox won EVO. But fuck him, because i worked HARDER and made top 32! Yaaaaaay! Go team! I didn't want that cash prize, anyway!"

Seriously, Youphemism. Seriously.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for 5 tournament-viable, strategic reasons why I would choose Kano over the named characters.

And double lol at your implication that Kano is too complicated. Is he too complicated for guys like MIT, who is notorious for playing the full cast in NRS games?

Is he too complicated for King, who does the same thing?

Is he too complicated for DJT, who is one of the strongest footsie players in the scene?

Get out of here with that stupid, horse shit argument.

There have been several Kanos requesting an overhead or at the least suggesting it, you can't tell me that's not true.

Yeah your sarcastic false quotations are great and all but your really not helping your point of...what exactly?

And I'm still pointing out that an arbitrary number of points on an extremely biased and selective point doesn't change anything about Kano's viability. Stay on topic or don't bother because that's not the point of this discussion nor this thread.

How did I imply Kano was too complicated?! Get out of here with that horse shit claim.

Tell me, why are you even bothering? Do you still even play the character? What use do you have coming in here to contest AN OPINION so angrily? You've just wasted your time insulting and provoking me over something minor, do you not see how useless that is? You can think Kano is bad if you want, but if you have such a low opinion of him that you have this heat over him then you should just drop him and play someone else. Clearly you want to play to win and other people that want to do that tend to pick a top tier character so feel free to go ahead and do that. Meanwhile people that enjoy the character will continue to do so and play with him, asking for buffs quietly like the Shinnok community did, rather than feed on the sickening negativity that's surged in this community. I don't want to argue with you, I don't want to argue with anyone, I just want to play my fucking character and get on with it like any mature player should be doing. Pessimism achieves nothing.

 

[OG Mannimal]

idk im pretty sure u guys just suck at mkx and fgs in general

giving lessons $20/hr shades of pl lol

 

[Rude]

Right, but someone not getting top 8 isn't the topic of discussion it's how good or bad Kano is.

Terrible argument? Tell me where the Commando Kanos were using their parries then? Tick throws? You might see it once or twice if you're lucky. If you think they were playing him optimally you're mistaken.

Lol because getting better as a player is "sentimental garbage".

No character in MKX is necessarily "complex" and no Kano doesn't have the hardest to pull off moves or combos in the game but that doesn't make him easy to win with.

The fact you're ignoring what I did tell you tells me you're too busy listening to everyone else say he's shit to come to your own opinion. Just because others do it better doesn't mean he's shit at it.

I didn't say winning with a higher tier character doesn't require effort but when your character has better pressure/mixups/whatever it does become easier.

No YOU don't give a shit. The Kano players who do give a shit are still playing him and aren't busy bitching about how unviable or shit or low tier he is. They're the ones competing and, oh wait, not dropping him. Think about that.

Wow, so having no money is a "pathetic argument"? That's low.

What does how known a person is got to do with Kano's viability?! Again with the random questions/arguments.

The game IS evolving, the meta IS evolving, I am just not a guy that prefers to bitch and whine when I can lab and play matchups. You know, work on getting better and all that "sentimental garbage".

I don't concede to pessimism. I'd rather work on being a good player and good with my character than finding shit excuses to make a character sound much worse than they are for the selfish reason of deciding to rely on the character more than myself.

There have been several Kanos requesting an overhead or at the least suggesting it, you can't tell me that's not true.

Yeah your sarcastic false quotations are great and all but your really not helping your point of...what exactly?

And I'm still pointing out that an arbitrary number of points on an extremely biased and selective point doesn't change anything about Kano's viability. Stay on topic or don't bother because that's not the point of this discussion nor this thread.

How did I imply Kano was too complicated?! Get out of here with that horse shit claim.

Tell me, why are you even bothering? Do you still even play the character? What use do you have coming in here to contest AN OPINION so angrily? You've just wasted your time insulting and provoking me over something minor, do you not see how useless that is? You can think Kano is bad if you want, but if you have such a low opinion of him that you have this heat over him then you should just drop him and play someone else. Clearly you want to play to win and other people that want to do that tend to pick a top tier character so feel free to go ahead and do that. Meanwhile people that enjoy the character will continue to do so and play with him, asking for buffs quietly like the Shinnok community did, rather than feed on the sickening negativity that's surged in this community. I don't want to argue with you, I don't want to argue with anyone, I just want to play my fucking character and get on with it like any mature player should be doing. Pessimism achieves nothing.

So i thought about taking my time and picking apart this diatribe(again) and explain in nuance all the things you don't seem to be grasping.

Especially since you seem to question my reasoning for certain statements when all if them are counterarguements to your talking points.

Instead, I'll simply ask again:

Can you give me five objective, fact based reasons why i would ever choose Kano over characters I've named previously?

What does Kano do that other characters cannot do better?

What competitive advantage am i giving myself by playing Kano over the named characters?

Oh, and I do have my own opinions. Unlike you, i am smart enough not to cling to bad ideas if i am presented with better ones. In other words, i can change my mind.

Clearly, you're too stubborn and afraid of the blow up to do that.

Here, I'll help you out:

1) Cutthroat's damage output is amazing.
2)
3)
4)
5)

Only 4 more to go! You can do it!

But probably not.

 

[GAV]

O



I'm not bagging Chris G. I even said that if he had played a better character, he would have done better.

Chris G is awesome.

I didn't think you were bagging him, but you are bagging his way.

His stubbornness makes him who he is. Who he is makes all his matches HYPE.

 

[Rude]

I didn't think you were bagging him, but you are bagging his way.

His stubbornness makes him who he is. Who he is makes all his matches HYPE.

That's fair. I actually love that he doesn't take NRS Games seriously but somehow always manages to collect a big scalp in tournament or place high.

It's awesome.

 

[VoyagersRevenge]

I would like to be more plus.. on something.. Please

 

[GAV]

Who asked for an overhead? Not I.

Gee, you know, maybe you're right.

I can see it now: "Sonic Fox won EVO. But fuck him, because i worked HARDER and made top 32! Yaaaaaay! Go team! I didn't want that cash prize, anyway!"

Seriously, Youphemism. Seriously.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for 5 tournament-viable, strategic reasons why I would choose Kano over the named characters.

And double lol at your implication that Kano is too complicated. Is he too complicated for guys like MIT, who is notorious for playing the full cast in NRS games?

Is he too complicated for King, who does the same thing?

Is he too complicated for DJT, who is one of the strongest footsie players in the scene?

Get out of here with that stupid, horse shit argument.

Sonic Fox is like Chris G, who are both just like Pauly in this respect.

They play who gives them the most joy - and who they can identify with. Erron Black's status is directly tied to Sonic Fox. So is Kitana's. Name another successful Erron Black on the tourney scene. Name another Kitana outside of Sonic Fox and Kitana Prime. Name another Reptile other than Chris G.

The game progresses as players emerge through their characters.

You're talking strategy in terms of best, but these guys don't want to run with a strategy they didn't develop. Truth is, the real hardcore character players want to do things their way - with their character. The easiest way is to go with the optimum way, but that doesn't move this game forward.

Now, I don't begrudge anyone going with the best way - especially if they put in the work to perfect it, but I certainly won't begrudge someone for wanting to do things their way. Success the best way is to be applauded. Success their own way gets a standing O.

Just my opinion.

 

[Rude]

Sonic Fox is like Chris G, who are both just like Pauly in this respect.

They play who gives them the most joy - and who they can identify with. Erron Black's status is directly tied to Sonic Fox. So is Kitana's. Name another successful Erron Black on the tourney scene. Name another Kitana outside of Sonic Fox and Kitana Prime. Name another Reptile other than Chris G.

The game progresses as players emerge through their characters.

You're talking strategy in terms of best, but these guys don't want to run with a strategy they didn't develop. Truth is, the real hardcore character players want to do things their way - with their character. The easiest way is to go with the optimum way, but that doesn't move this game forward.

Now, I don't begrudge anyone going with the best way - especially if they put in the work to perfect it, but I certainly won't begrudge someone for wanting to do things their way. Success the best way is to be applauded. Success their own way gets a standing O.

Just my opinion.

That Kitana had recieved buffs and Erron is quite good had nothing to do with it for Fox?

Because during the Fatal 8, he gad said he chose Erron over Mileena, a character he was known for in MK9, because Erron was safer.

That said, you've succinctly presented a more valid argument that i can get on board with than any of Youphemism's walls of bullshit.

Kudos. Enjoy the like.