General/Other - Scorpion The Current Scorpion problems in general

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Reptile has no reliable anti-airs on most jump-in angles. Buff pls

 

[1man3letters]

I didn't see one complaint about hellfire , which Is VERY potentially top 5 , if you disagree it's because you haven't played one at the highest level.

no one playing anything at the "highest level" at the moment, games out just over a month, no need for throwing around catchphrases like that

 

[Eddy Wang]

OK guys can we stop blowing up on Eddy? There's no need to get angry.

They're fishing for likes, i for once even if the thread was opened for the wrong reason i'm actually enjoying seen Scorpion players talk for once.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

It doesn't have armor anymore, so reacting will only make you spend a bar because you can't trade with it anymore.

But what i'm i talking about right?

He makes projectiles or far reaching normals irrelevant. I dont expect a Scorpion to use it when I'm in their face

 

[Crimson Panther]

I play @RunwayMafia almost everyday and the progression of how we play our games have changed.

F4 is reactable and 99% of the time blocked. So that leaves only F2 for an overhead. B32F2 is always blocked and have to guess if I have to block a punish (because it's -9) or back dash a throw (which there are ways to punish that too).

B3 FBRC into 214 is always poked out of so have to use other less optimal strings to follow up with.

The point I'm trying to make: Scorpion is a good character. But as players start blowing up his problems and as the game continues to develop he won't be seen as this "top tier character".

 

[xInfra Deadx]

We love you Eddy but pls stahp

 

[Eddy Wang]

He makes projectiles or far reaching normals irrelevant. I dont expect a Scorpion to use it when I'm in their face

Do you think i don't know that?

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

Do you think i don't know that?

You need to calm down. I said nothing negative about this post, just made a rebuttal and you are getting offended for some reason. I can sit here and say shit that Kung Jin needs but I understand how even without those things, he is a great character. Same with Scorpion, bud. You need to chill out

 

[spin4u]

Its players and threads like these that get this great game a crap load of patches. what a pointless thread.

 

[Slips]

In Eddy's defense, Ninjitsu's b2 is pretty janky. Yes it should be punishable. Yes it shouldn't be special cancellable. But man the initial damage (3%) and the gravity that it causes mid combo is kind of a shame.

But Inferno and Hellfire are fine. Asking for buffs is pretty greedy.

 

[Qwark28]

In Eddy's defense, Ninjitsu's b2 is pretty janky. Yes it should be punishable. Yes it shouldn't be special cancellable. But man the initial damage (3%) and the gravity that it causes mid combo is kind of a shame.

But Inferno and Hellfire are fine. Asking for buffs is pretty greedy.

Would you say a turtle playstyle would be good against hellfire? Let the scorpion player kill himself?

 

[Slips]

Would you say a turtle playstyle would be good against hellfire? Let the scorpion player kill himself?

Rushing down Scorp in Hellfire isn't easy, but turtling against him isn't easy either. Sounds like a slower death lol.

The only real bad matchup Scorp has that I can see is Cassie. Although I will say a lot of people are freaking out about some of the stuff that Hellfire can do is kind of a bill. @RM Crimson Panther touched on some of these. The 214 rc pressure is somewhat of a bill as well I think. Time will tell though.

 

[Eddy Wang]

You need to calm down. I said nothing negative about this post, just made a rebuttal and you are getting offended for some reason. I can sit here and say shit that Kung Jin needs but I understand how even without those things, he is a great character. Same with Scorpion, bud. You need to chill out

I'm not angry lol, that is why i hate texts haha, they don't translate emotions at all lol, everyone understands as the situation goes.

Also i'm letting you guys know that i'm not mad at anyone here, in fact i'm enjoying the discussion.

 

[Qwark28]

Rushing down Scorp in Hellfire isn't easy, but turtling against him isn't easy either. Sounds like a slower death lol.

The only real bad matchup Scorp has that I can see is Cassie. Although I will say a lot of people are freaking out about some of the stuff that Hellfire can do is kind of a bill. @RM Crimson Panther touched on some of these. The 214 rc pressure is somewhat of a bill as well I think. Time will tell though.

I think grandmaster subzero does well against him, any tips on that matchup?

 

[M.D.]

Sure fine as long as teleport is back as mk9, a high and with -300 on block.

 

[itzpookiie]

I'm not angry lol, that is why i hate texts haha, they don't translate emotions at all lol, everyone understands as the situation goes.

Also i'm letting you guys know that i'm not mad at anyone here, in fact i'm enjoying the discussion.

While it's true that it's hard to read emotion for on text, what he quoted was pretty snark no matter how you try to perceive it. Word for word

 

[Wetdoba]

"Scorpion" and "problem" probably should not be in the same sentence together unless that sentence is "Scorpion is a big problem for at least half the cast"

 

[Slips]

I think grandmaster subzero does well against him, any tips on that matchup?

I don't see why it'd be out of Scorp's favor. What's the problem?

 

[STRYKIE]

Outside of Ninjitsu, and I suppose sometimes even in Ninjitsu, B2 leaves a lot to be desired, but it can't really be denied that Scorp still has other tools in close quarters that are still serviceable. We have enough time to see what else comes into play with it before NRS/WB calls curtains on patches for the game.

Granted, that's not to say characters with established good tools shouldn't have fixes, nor does it mean characters with not so many established tools are automatically entitled to fixes. But right now, I think a lot of things are being misunderstood about Scorpion, both playing as and fighting against him. A lot of people of frustrated by "uh, 6 frame jumpkick bro, that's not footsies", but I think the sheer amount of active frames that allow you to convert into a teleport rather than the startup is what the problem is. Can a toning down be arranged? Perhaps. But the same weasels getting sentimental about "footsies" better give up some of their armor in return, cause the only neutral standing armor Scorpion currently has is negative on hit, lol.....

has complete air control
i get to jump all day and no antiair will work, i get to cross up all day, people bait my jumps by i still get away with my j3 tele, i have 2 variations with so many mixups, my combo is 39+ then vortex, i have zoning tools, a low grab across the screen, multiple vortexes, sometimes a vortex after the other, i cant believe if i dont make it ex my 50/50 is unsafe, so unfair. all jump ins are a vortex and guess what, i can jump all day, footsies? lol
how a character that gets free preasure out of pretty much everything be bad?
not saying he is op, but he is beyond retarded, have you even seen cinder in KI 1? its more difficult to use him than scorpion, just saying

Rushing down Scorp in Hellfire isn't easy, but turtling against him isn't easy either. Sounds like a slower death lol.

The only real bad matchup Scorp has that I can see is Cassie. Although I will say a lot of people are freaking out about some of the stuff that Hellfire can do is kind of a bill. @RM Crimson Panther touched on some of these. The 214 rc pressure is somewhat of a bill as well I think. Time will tell though.

How do you feel about Raiden? Not sure if he categorically gives Scorpion as many problems as Cassie, but IMO it's definitely not a winning matchup for Scorp.

 

[Qwark28]

I don't see why it'd be out of Scorp's favor. What's the problem?

I play subzero, my local scorpion is a great player but I've only played few matches with him, barely enough to understand scorp's playstyle.

How does the matchup go and what should I look for against scorpion? Right now he looks like a jumping bunny with a teleport and 214 fireball run cancel meter building and chip.

 

[lm Tweakk]

no one playing anything at the "highest level" at the moment, games out just over a month, no need for throwing around catchphrases like that

Okay , at the highest level as In highest level right now , the highest level will be even better down the road , I was only referring to one that fully optimizes all of his tools , that we know of.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I think grandmaster subzero does well against him, any tips on that matchup?

I play subzero, my local scorpion is a great player but I've only played few matches with him, barely enough to understand scorp's playstyle.

How does the matchup go and what should I look for against scorpion? Right now he looks like a jumping bunny with a teleport and 214 fireball run cancel meter building and chip.

You can whiff punish jump ins targeted at your head by ducking and jab the ones targeted at your chest. You can also run under any jump to fool the tracking system and full combo punish on the ground against every single character in this game.

Scorpion has a good air to air, meaning you shouldn't be jump with him, but his air normals are different from Kung Jin's or Kung Lao, you can actually duck those do whiff punish on recovery.

Any way, if Scorpion whiffs a jump attack he gets a different window to teleport on whiff, it will only come out much more later.

If jumping is your current problem i suggest you get these down first before anything else.

214 FBC is a blockstring, if you take the last hit of 214 you can throw off timing and escape the loop.
Scorpion might try to guess either you drop it or not, and try to cancel with ex spear, either way his pressure ends on the third hit everytime. Even if he lands a ex Fireball out of the blockstring to be at +8, you can backdash out of the next pressure, when at this situation his only viable followup pressure to cool off the stamina regen is B32F2, which you can armor out of, or let your clone do the job with a reversal escape.

Also F2 is -9, B32F2 is also -9, sub should get a reversal slide everytime he lands one.
Don't randomly use B2 in this MU, Scorpion F3 can punish that easy.

And the classic advice, if you're getting comboed by scorpion, always block low, then react to the overhead.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Rushing down Scorp in Hellfire isn't easy, but turtling against him isn't easy either. Sounds like a slower death lol.

The only real bad matchup Scorp has that I can see is Cassie. Although I will say a lot of people are freaking out about some of the stuff that Hellfire can do is kind of a bill. @RM Crimson Panther touched on some of these. The 214 rc pressure is somewhat of a bill as well I think. Time will tell though.

I don't think 214 rc is a bill but rc off of other normals tgat don't have the same cancel advantage can be considered a bill.

He's got solid nuetral game tools though. When players start reaction jumping hellfire you can use fbc into rc aa. It's pretty scary to deal with imo. Then every air to air leads to over 30% with free chip damage and 50 50s all over the place.

I don't see hellfire scorpion really dropping down much.

BTW scorpion does have a teleport that's pretty much safe. People mentioned earlier how whiff tele can be punished but he also has his retreating tele that can probably only be punished by a few characters.

 

[Noserfatu]

has complete air control
i get to jump all day and no antiair will work, i get to cross up all day, people bait my jumps by i still get away with my j3 tele, i have 2 variations with so many mixups, my combo is 39+ then vortex, i have zoning tools, a low grab across the screen, multiple vortexes, sometimes a vortex after the other, i cant believe if i dont make it ex my 50/50 is unsafe, so unfair. all jump ins are a vortex and guess what, i can jump all day, footsies? lol
how a character that gets free preasure out of pretty much everything be bad?
not saying he is op, but he is beyond retarded, have you even seen cinder in KI 1? its more difficult to use him than scorpion, just saying

I 100% agree with all this. Scorpion is a stupid character. I would be happy if I never had to fight him.

 

[BloodyNights]

To be honest Eddie, I use B2 in some matches, not often, it's best used at the very tip of someones jump, but you need some sick reactions. I use Inferno by the way so I've got considerably less range. It being sped up slightly couldn't hurt.

But at the same time I feel that Scorpion's weaknesses are not that bad. Sure he has a lot of high starters, but his mid string is really good for pressure. His pokes are in my opinion top tier, especially with his D4, D3, and F2. With these normals and B121 string you'll have people blocking your highs. If they still refuse B12>Spear combos, even if you can't hit-confirm it well.

EX teleport still has armor, but only on wake up. The only armored move he has in the neutral is BF4. But the mere fact that Scorpion can cancel his teleports just makes him godlike, especially with EX teleport. Who's gonna not block an ex teleport? Cancel it into throw works 95% of the time. I'll agree that Ninjitsu is lacking in his general game plan, but I really think he is a match up dependent variation.