Rate Your Character (Mortal Kombat X Edition)!

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Okay whatever guys. Believe what you want, I have done my work with my character and know my punishes, but apparantly you can get blown up because you don't know how freakin jason punishes something specifically even though that shouldn't even be relevant for my own gameplay . FTR I did not spread misinformation, because I haven't even really said anything about subzero to begin with.

@AK L0rdoftheFLY I hope you enjoy the tanya nerfs

So sad

 

[Farpafraf]

D'Vorah (swarm queen):

Spoiler: 50/50 mix ups and pressure (Can I give a 6/5?)

D'Vorah pressure with her run cancels is just insane: F1 is a 12 advancing frame mid hitting move F112 WGC is probably something like +12 and you have so many option after someone blocks it (I've still to check if F112 WGC B1 (low) is still a true blockstring after the patch but I think so).
Both her B1 (low) D4 and F22 (OH) can be cancelled for +30% damage. Both F22 and D4 have a very long reach but they don't extend your hurtbox btw. In the corner she rapes people.

Spoiler: Neutral game and footsies (5/5)

D1 is a good -3 on block poke (8f startup) her neutral punch, her F22 OH, D4 low and D3 (only -2 on block) have very long reach whilst not extending her hurtbox, D'Vorah's neutral game is only outshined by her pressure. Oh and don't try to jump on her or you'll eat her D2

Spoiler: Defensive options (2/5)

D'Vorah defenses are very bad: her fastest poke has 8 frames of startup, her only armored move is -12 on block with little to none pushback and does only 11% (could be the worst wakeup after Quan Ch's one). I'm giving 2/5 because D3, D4 F22 make her difficult to approach.

Spoiler: Zoning and anti-zoning (3/5)

I still don't fully get the difference between zoning and footsies, what I can say is that her long reach normals are very well complemented by DB1 that makes her quite hard to zone since a traded insect puddle will almost always result in a favourable trade and a blocked one (+22) will allow her to get close.
She also has a projectile (lol jk).

Spoiler: Damage output and meter building (5/5)

As I mentioned before she can do +30% off her low B1 or F22 OH , F11 can be cancelled as well for +30 (+40% if she uses 1 bar with HUGE corner carry), all her combos have good corner carry properties and do even more damage in the corner. She has one of the fastest punisher in the game 112 that leads to 35% damage. But another very important aspect is her chip damage and the meter she is able to produce with her cancels (a blocked F112 WGC -armor gap- F112 WGC 112 xx DB4 build 70% of a bar and does 10% damage).

Total 21/25 .

 

[NHDR]

F1b2xxdf2 can be poked out of or armored through. It's not safe.

I meant more that it can't be punished on block. But yeah, it has a gap which the opponent can react to if a proper read is made.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Hellfire Scorpion.

Mixups and Pressure. (4/5)
F2, and B32F2 are punishable by only a couple characters into full combos. Both do modest damage and lead to HKD. B3 can be cancelled into big damage. F4 still hits people but it being slower and fuzziable is noteworthy. (Although I still hit people with it a lot) You also get EX hellfire off of throw for like 20% which is ridiculous with run and his standing resets.

Neutral game and footsies. (4/5)
F2, d4, j3, hellfire, njk, flame aura. Flame aura? Yes Flame aura. Flame aura has super fast recovery that makes it almost impossible to whiff punish (Shoutouts to Slips for pointing this out to me). The hitbox is solid and it leads to a lot of damage on hit.

Defensive options (4/5)
Ex tele, Ex tele cancel, Ex takedown, back dash, NJK. Pokes will recover in time to block EX tele but if I have you resorting to just pokes after knockdown, that’s good.

Zoning and anti zoning. (4/5)
Teleport is super fast. You’re taking a risk zoning scorpion. He’s great at counterzoning. Hellfire zoning is kind of effective but the price I pay if you jump one is pretty big.

Damage. (4/5)
This was an easy 5 pre patch. Now it’s a tad more reasonable. Especially meterless.

Total score 20/25.

Obviously these numbers are set in stone...and blood.... and stone blood.... and anyone who doesn't agree "just doesn't know". I am the obvious MKX authority and couldn't possibly be wrong.

I agree with this. Just to add EX hellfire is only guaranteed after a hard knock down from njk. EX hellfire can be beat by armored wake ups on knockdowns from throws, f2, b32f2 and 2nd spears. If you use the 2nd spear you only have to worry about wake ups that can punish you from far. Best whiff punish for flame aura is fast armor but that's hard as well, it's easier to punish on block.

 

[Shamwow0w0w]

Impostor Shinnok
(This is not including Predator as I have not tested options vs him)

50/50 Mixup: 5/5
*Mimicry puts you at +104 on hit, letting you teleport into NJP, b3, F4, grab, go for chip, etc. Using a bar of meter puts you at +14 on block, this forces a mixup situation in your favor. They can backdash which you can read and punish by run cancel F2, or armor which they have a 1 frame window to do and most characters don't get much from their armor, or block. . B3 and a delayed F4 after mimicry are quite effective and lead back into Mimicry vs all but 8 characters

Neutral Game: 5/5
F223 has better reach than any string in the game. F223 covers over 1/3 of the screen. Hell sparks are about half screen distance which cover jump ins. Standing 1 is a great anti cross over, D2 is a great anti air, and enhancing hell sparks puts you at +14 on block. He's negative without meter but not punishable.

Defensive Options: 3/5
Armored shoulder charge only leads to a combo in the corner, but d1/F4 are great pokes, F2 and Hell sparks are scary from mid screen. Wake up options are decent. He can armored dash which can be punished by jumping and whiff punishing but Shinnok can wake up sparks to punish that option. Very average in this category.

Zoning/Anti Zoning: 4/5
From full screen you can react to projectiles with teleport and from midscreen F2/hell sparks range are more than enough to make him strong.

Damage output: 4/5
35% bnb that leads into Mimicry into a mixup or 40% and builds back 1/3 ish of a bar if you choose to go for chip damage as well. Meterless damage is extremely low (16-23%). This would be a 2/5 imo if Shinnok didn't have access to absurd amount of chip damage. Certain match ups lead to more chip, max is about 45% but vs most characters it's 35% with 3 bars, and gains unblockable specials from a few characters. Mimicry is a standing reset so don't forget to factor in the guaranteed chip damage/meter gained back with each bnb. 41% bnb for 2/3 of bar isn't bad. I'd say it's above average.


Total: 21/25


I don't want to hear the "Impostor is too match up dependent" argument. Only one match up in the game puts Impostor at an actual disadvantage for stealing their special move and thats vs Jason. But keep in mind Shinnok gains above average/great specials from the top tiers that he is likely to face in a tournament setting.

 

[TakeAChance]

But you came from a place of assuming there weren't many that could punish. One players assumption becomes another players fact, and PRESTO, false perception spreads and becomes reality.

You didn't even believe me unless I literally wrote down EVERY CHARACTERS options.

Pretty sure Mileena can Ex Roll there too. Add another one to the list and if she can't, I bet I could Fade it.

 

[Tom Brady]

Pretty sure Mileena can Ex Roll there too. Add another one to the list and if she can't, I bet I could Fade it.

Neither.. EX roll too slow and forward fade gets frozen by clone.

 

[Afumba]

Nice Thread. Although the scores should have been higher than 5 maybe... for some categories at least.

 

[TakeAChance]

Neither.. EX roll too slow and forward fade gets frozen by clone.

Just went into the lab to confirm. Well I'll be damned. B33 working on her in the corner and the ex clone not being punishable means I got no options to escape other than a REAL hard read.

I thought for sure the fade would work, now I have to lab this further.

Thanks Tom.

 

[brizzle]

23/25

"balanced"

lol

I agree. People are throwin out 22 and 23 thinking that makes them top. 23 makes them OP and excels at everything. 22 is max and maybe 1 character gets that, but probably none

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

Half the cast getting a full combo and almost everyone getting something like a position reverse + hard knockdown is not safe-ish to me. Who wants to eat a hard knockdown and have to get up cornered vs Sonya? Its not always about damage, its about the situation you are left in as well. You assumed it was reasonably safe vs most in this situation and you were mistaken.

If SZ spent most of every match with the opponent cornered, he'd be #1. Fact is a lot of of a match then is admitted takes place mid screen where is Overhead is punished by almost every character for no meter. This is why I rated is 50/50 ability the way I did, its punished in corners for a full combo by half the cast and punished in general by most. In open space a vast majority can punish for a combo.

gm sz has the throw into ice, punch the ground move etc, although you arent safe AFTER some of the options, you have the safety to throw the dice if the guy doesnt have meter and if you block an EX escape you can punish thee. I agree with what you're saying though but the OH being unsafe for most of the cast with a bar of meter isnt considered that unsafe in this game, its just much more unsafe than it used to be

 

[Obs_SmSwag]

Match ups. A character can technically be 25/25 and be the worst character in the game based on match ups (if I have to elaborate I will, but it will make me sad that I have to). Match ups are more important than how good a character is.

But match ups are determined by how good a character is lol.

If these 5 things are supposed to encompass a character "overall", that means a character with a higher score should be "overall" better. If you lose more match ups, how are you better?

 

[Zoidberg747]

But match ups are determined by how good a character is lol.

If these 5 things are supposed to encompass a character "overall", that means a character with a higher score should be "overall" better. If you lose more match ups, how are you better?

No they arent. In many fighting games low tier characters will have one fluke MU where they do well against a top tier, but still are shitty characters.

(For example Shazam was considered low tier in Injustice but he did well against zoning characters because he could teleport in for free in most cases).

 

[Error]

No they arent. In many fighting games low tier characters will have one fluke MU where they do well against a top tier, but still are shitty characters.

(For example Shazam was considered low tier in Injustice but he did well against zoning characters because he could teleport in for free in most cases).

Shazam teleport got blown-up by most fast projectiles, he did well against characters like Bane who relied on oki.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Shazam teleport got blown-up by most fast projectiles, he did well against characters like Bane who relied on oki.

Maybe I was just speaking from Ravens perspective.

Regardless I know there are more examples in other games, but I cant think of them

 

[PPJ]

brood mother

1. 50/50 mix ups and pressure 5/5
2. Neutral game and footsies 5/5
3. Defensive options 3/5
4. Zoning and anti-zoning 3.5/5
5. Damage output 3/5

19.5/25

 

[THTB]

Let's do a little bit of Reptile, shall we?



50/50 Mixups & Pressure (4/5):

Spoiler

Reptile's offense is actually pretty solid. 1, 141, 21, and 3 are all +2 on block, 12 is +1, d4 is 0, 2 is -1, and 34 and 14 are -2. Lots of room for staggers, especially off of the +2 options. His 50/50 game is really solid, as b2 is an 11-frame overhead to go along with b3, a 14-frame low option. Despite Reptile's lack of damage, he gets a lot of opportunities to hit you, however. He sets up anti-counterpoking situations pretty solidly due to his walking and the pushback and spacing on some of his options (141 has a gap, though). All in all, pretty solid pressure off of normals, just leaves a bit to desire in the reward.

Neutral Game (4/5):

Spoiler

f21, combined with Reptile's really quick steps allows him to use various normals and strings such as d4, 12, and 141 to space himself out and make it hard to poke him back, as he whiff punishes you constantly for it. b2's hitbox is pretty silly, as he reaches so far out from his body. It catches errant limbs often, and is really good at allowing him to reset space. b3's strong in footsies, since he reels back before sticking out a long low kick, good for catching errant pokes. Forceballs, while not as good as in MK9, still can work as ways to force reactions out of opponents. Dash doesn't do much damage, but, if you use it right, can get your opponent to blocking within its range, which allows you to start moving in a bit more freely. As far as anti-airs go, EX claw, d2, and trip guard b3 are your most useful anti-airs in that order, with d3 and d1 being solid low profile options if you don't feel comfortable going for the b3 trip guard. Not terrible options, but without meter, Reptile's anti-airs aren't the absolute best. Reptile also has trouble catching characters that can play in the air. Otherwise, not too bad.

Defense (3/5):

Spoiler

Punishment-wise, Reptile has f412 as his most reliable normal punisher at 9 frames. Dash and slide are 8 frames, and EX slide is 6 frames, though they are low damage. In terms of defending, d3 is a pretty quick poke at 7 frames, and as far as armor goes, EX claw and EX slide are your strongest options. Generally, EX claw will be used as it launches, unless you need a more reliable GTFO option in EX slide. EX pounce has situational implications where you want to armor through an opponent's counterarmor that is slow enough to beat EX claw but not EX pounce. With Deceptive, EX stealth also becomes an option to beat out really exploitable gaps in strings and options. Not bad. Just not super exceptional.

Zoning and Anti-Zoning (3/5):

Spoiler

As far as zoning goes with Reptile, forget it. That's the main reason Reptile only gets a 3 here. He doesn't really have any sort of solid zoning. Anti-zoning isn't too spectacular either as pounce is slow altogether. However, slide, EX slide, and dash all serve as options to either get Reptile close enough or outright blow under/through zoning. EX slide is pretty crazy...a low-profiling, 6 frame crawl that has armor. If it did more damage, it'd be much more to fear, but alas, it does not.

Damage (2/5):

Spoiler

This is where Reptile goes south a bit. As far as punishment goes, for no meter, he gets pretty okay damage off of f412, netting 34% (Unfortunately requiring some decent effort to squeeze it out). In the corner, that damage gets upped 3%. With Noxious, the damage increases on the meterless front, since 34 xx gas becomes an addition to any f412 combo...adding on 5-6%. Unfortunately, 34 has super limited applications, and at 12 frames, isn't as handy as f412. f21 with 1 bar nets 33%, and b2 and b3 can get in the low 30s with a bar, which sucks. Without meter, however, everything Reptile does is meaningless damage-wise if he's not using f412. b2? 23%. b3? Let's not even go there. If you land on a forceball, or get hit by one in any way, he can get up to high 20s, but that's about it. Nimble combos are only really applicable off of a f412 cancel or a corner activation. f412 combos present a LOT of corner carry, and can net some decent damage midscreen-to-corner, anywhere in between 34 and 43%. In the corner, off anything, Nimble is getting 40% if basilisk is involved. The unfortunate part about this all, though, is Reptile is meter hungry. And he doesn't build the meter well enough to really abuse this. So he constantly has to peck away with the meterless stuff to get anywhere. Which holds back his damage game significantly.

Total: 16/25[/spoiler]

 

[KIllaByte]

Kung Jin:

50/50s and pressure: 5/5

Neutral game and footsies: 4/5

Defensive options: 4/5

Zoning/anti-zoning: 3/5

Damage output: 4/5

Total score: 20/25

Ranking: High tier

You didn't even say which variation, man.

 

[Emperor Enigma]

You didn't even say which variation, man.

Kung Jin is Bojutsu

 

[Pan1cMode]

Full autoJacqui Briggs:


1. 50/50 mix ups and pressure (4/5)
She does have decent 50/50s although getting to use them can be annoying. Her pressure is ehh with up missile being duckable and no fast enough normals to capitalise on plus frames. Also f121 not working properly wrecks her pressure game.

2. Neutral game and footsies (2/5)
Her footsies are ehhh. She doesn't have the range to do anything really.

3. Defensive options (1/5)
She has the worst armour moves beside non-warlock Quan chi. She lacks fast pokes with range to deal with pressure.

4. Zoning and anti-zoning (3/5)
Anti-zoning with gun is kinda useful. Her zoning isn't all that great tbh.

5. Damage output (5/5)
Her damage is really good, both midscreen and corner.

15/30

 

[Genei Jin]

Impostor Shinnok:

1. 50/50 mix ups and pressure (4/5) – He has a vortex against most of the cast but requires meter to be safe or to get started.

2. Neutral game and footsies (3/5) – ground sparks controls a lot of space and tricky portal (teleport) negates a lot of zoning options. his f+2 has huge range.

3. Defensive options (3/5) – ex shoulder is decent (better than quan chis wake up) and leads to a combo in the corner but has a small hitbox. d+1 comes out in 6 frames and defensive ground sparks can be meter burned on block to be made safe.

4. Zoning and anti-zoning (5/5) – tricky portal makes him hard to zone. hell sparks is great for zoning as said earlier.

5. Damage output (3/5) – depending on the move stolen and whether you chose to go for vortex or damage, his damage output varies but he can usually get over 27% along with a vortex set up.

Overall: 18/25

Sounds fun, I'll give it a try!

WAR GOD KOTAL KAHN:

50/50 mix ups and pressure (4/5)

Spoiler

War God gives the overhead sword and the low sword. Both are pretty fast and decent damage. However both are unsafe. B1,4 into overhead sword is an advancing mid then low then overhead (launcher if MB). So he has good mixups. Maybe should be a 3 because it is unsafe?

Neutral game and footsies (4/5)

Spoiler

B1, F1, and F2 are all advancing normals with good range. F1,B2 into mid sword is safe (mostly, there is a tight interrupt). I suppose the B2 overhead does advance but is pretty bad. Mostly, his jump forward 1 is an amazing air normal; huge range, lots of jump in combos can be had.

Defensive options (5/5)

Spoiler

Well, using your description Kotal's overhead sword is one of the best armored launchers in the game and leads to an easy 32% and certainly creates offense. Kotal's D1 is 6 frames, and, his D4 is one of the best in the game at 6 frames with range and +17(?) on hit. D3 is also 7 frames and a low.

Zoning and anti-zoning (1/5)

Spoiler

Yeah, this is where all Kotals lose lots of points. I gave one point because MB sword throw is a big fast projectile that does 17% on hit and is super + on block and allows a run in. So, for a bar, he has this one option.

Damage output (5/5)

Spoiler

Using your scale, Kotal gets over 40% in several, viable ways with one bar. Kotal hits real hard, everyone knows this.

Total Score: 19 / 25

Agree, disagree? Would love feedback!

I came up with the same rating except i put kotals footsies at a 5 out of 5. His walk and run speeds are one of the fastest in the game. All of his normals has either huge lunging reach or comes out super fast.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Jax players are like "my character deals almost no damage mid screen on female characters and 50% combos in the corner, let's rate his damage output 5/5"

 

[MK_Al]

Buzzsaw Kung Lao

50/50 mix ups and pressure (4/5)

Spoiler

Good mixups with b2 / low hat, good pressure with stagering strings as well as low hat and spin threat. And of course J2

Neutral game and footsies (4.5/5)

Spoiler

b2, low hat and f2 are excellent footsie tools. spin and EX spin negate jum ins

Defensive options (5/5)

Spoiler

Buzzsaw KL can be played very safe due to low hat. Spin and EX spin are great AA's; EX spin's armor beats almost every move once activated. Spin is an overrated punisher due to it's tiny reach. Overall strong defense if you don't go yolo with TP, DK and spin

Zoning and anti-zoning (3/5)

Spoiler

bf2 has Long start up and low hat takes lot of recovery time if it whiffs. KL's zoning is very poor. On the flip side, his good mobility makes it hard to Zone him

Damage output (2.5/5)

Spoiler

His main BNB's lead to 28% if I am not mistaken. If he manages to land a 44 starter the damage is much higher, but unless you are punishing a very - move or land a tp3 this won't happen. The only way to enhance the damage is landing a b321 and spending 1 meter; EX spin won't deal more damage than regular spin. EX TP and EX1 is almost useless due to the high cost.

Total Score: 19 / 25
Personal verdict: Viable, solid and fun character that would be top if the damage output would be slightly higher. Deadly in the Hands of someone with good neutral game and footsies. Hard to Play against online.


On a side note:
A lot of chars have >20 Points which I consider absolutely viable, but still the MU's sometimes don't feel that way. I think the reason for this is that the categories need to have different weight for the overall score (this might also be the reason for a lot of disputes when it Comes to character judgement).

For me, the key given below seems reasonable, but however it's just an example:
Neutral game and footsies x 1,00
Damage Output x 0,95
Defensive Options x 0,85
50/50 mix ups and pressure x 0,85
Zoning and anti-zoning x 0,75

 

[SpiceWeasel]

1. Jason Unstoppable and Relentless - Ex Command throw for 2o% and position reversal
2. Kung Lao Buzzsaw and hat Trick - Punishes both B33 and B2 with Ex Spin for a full combo.
3. Jax all variations - Ex overhead dash punch for a full combo.
4. Sonya all variations - Ex leg grab for 15% and position reversal.
5. Kenshi Kenjutsu and Possessed - BF2
6. Kitana all variations - Ex Rising Blades for a full combo, 212 string for a full combo, Ex Throat Slash. Royal Storm - Ex Square Boost. Mournful - Ex Shadow Kick
7. Scorpion all variations - Ex take down.
8. Sub-Zero all variations - Ex Slide.
9. Jacqui all variations - Ex BF1
10. Kung Jin all variations - Bf3/Ex BF3, 1,1,1~special of choice for a full combo.
11. Tanya all variations - Ex Drill Kick for a full combo. She also punishes B33 and B33~ex ice blast with Ex forward teleport for a full combo.
12. Goro all variations - Ex Cmmand Grab and Ex Punch walk for a full combo. Kuatan Warrior - Ex Chest Lunge. Dragon Fangs - Ex Fang Spin for a full combo.
13. Raiden all variations - Ex Shocker for a full combo and F12 string for a full combo.
14. D'Vorah all variations - B1~special which will full combo in Swarm Queen/B1 string, Ovipositor Charge.
15. F/T Ruthless - Ex Command Grab. Lackey - Ex Command Grab and Ex Roll
16. Reptile all variations - Ex Slide
17. Ermac MOS and Spectral - Ex Lift for a full combo. Mystic - Lift for a full combo.
18. Liu Kang all all variations - Ex Flying Kick. Flame Fist - Ex Windmill Punch, F2~Windmill Punch. Dragons Fire - F2~Bike Kick MB for a full combo. Dualist -F2~special.
19. Johnny Cage all variations - Ex Nut Punch for a full combo.
20. Erron Black all variations - 21122~special cancel on 4th hit for a full combo.
21. Shinnok all variations - Ex Shoulder.
22. Kano all variations - B13~special (leads to a full combo in Cutthroat and Cybernetic). Commando - Choke and Ex Choke, Ex Command Grab(b2 must be blocked close).
23. Predator all variations - F12 string into a full combo.


I listed 23 that can punish and 14 of the 23 for a full combo. Without clone there are many characters that can punish SZ's B2 for a full combo and this happens a lot in open space situations.


If only YOU and people just like you took the time to lab vs SZ yourself, maybe he wouldnt have been nefed right away and/or his ex clone could be fixed. You want others to do the work for you while you spout garbage about things that are untrue. People like you are the reason why things get changed early.

 

[Raidenwins]

I just find it ridiculous that it falls on the character specialist to educate all or nerfs are coming. Its like there should be no responsibility for people to lab on how to defeat something. Either the specialist does all the work for you or nerfs are demanded. Look at Tanya and SZ, a specialist had to literally tell them all of their options because people swore they had none. This leads to early nerfs and "oops.. sorry abut that" later.

I agree with you, but that's only one part of the problem. The other part is, of course, NRS. Why are they so quick to nerf characters without letting the game evolve? People can complain and downplay all day long, but it's NRS that does the actual nerfing. Do they really have a person that reads TYM and literally counts how many people, regardless of whether their arguments hold water or not, complain about a certain character and that's what they base their decisions on? Cause it sure looks that way. You have more insight into how that works, maybe you can shed some light into the issue for the rest of us.