Rate Your Character (Mortal Kombat X Edition)!

[PetulantWaste]

Bro, this is the last time I'm going to answer you if your not willing to do any research.
Quan Chi has either a safe wakeup or an unsafe wakeup that launches in one of his variations.

Fair enough but in my defense it was added in and it's in his worst variation that almost no one plays. The move could be removed from the game tomorrow and no one would notice for like a week.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Whats the lowest score so far?

anything worse than Dualist at 8/25?

 

[Tom Brady]

Okay who can punish b2 in the corner with a clone up. Name all the characters and who can full combo punish it.

NO ICE CLONE OUT:
1. Jason Slasher - B122 for a full combo. Unstoppable and Relentless - B3 1+3/B3~special, Command Throw/Ex Command throw.
2. Kung Lao all variations - B12~special/F21~special/F23~special for a full combo. Buzzsaw and hat Trick - Punishes both B33 and B2 with Ex Spin for a full combo.
3. Jax all variations - F3~Ex overhead dash punch for a full combo. Heavy Weapons - F3~rocket dash cancel~123~ex overhead dash punch for a full combo.
4. Sonya all variations - B14~special for a full combo(1 frame window), Leg Grab.
5. Kenshi Kenjutsu and Possessed - BF2
6. Kitana all variations - Ex Rising Blades for a full combo, 212 string for a full combo(closer range), Throat Slash. Royal Storm - Square Boost.
7. Scorpion all variations - 11~special(close range) for a full combo, B3~special/B12~special for a full combo, take down.
8. Sub-Zero all variations - Slide, B12~ice ball for a full combo.
9. Jacqui all variations - BF1
10. Kung Jin all variations - 34~special of choice for a full combo.
11. Tanya all variations - Ex Drill Kick/EX Forward Teleprt for a full combo. She also punishes B33 and B33~ex ice blast with Ex forward teleport for a full combo. Kobou Jutsu - B1 string for a full combo(closer range), Ex Tonfa Strike.
12. Goro all variations - Command Grab/EX Command Grab, Ex Punch walk for a full combo, 21~special. Kuatan Warrior - Chest Lunge. Dragon Fangs - Ex Fang Spin for a full combo.
13. Raiden all variations - F12 string for a full combo.
14. D'Vorah all variations - F11 string into a full combo, B1~special which will full combo in Swarm Queen, Ovipositor Charge.
15. F/T all variations - B121~special(will result in a full combo in Lackey). Ruthless - Command Grab/Ex Command Grab. Lackey - Command Grab/Ex Command Grab, Roll.
16. Reptile all variations - Slide, Dash/EX Dash, F412~special for a full combo.
17. Ermac all variations - B12~special for a full combo. MOS and Spectral - Ex Lift for a full combo. Mystic - Lift for a full combo.
18. Liu Kang all all variations - Flying Kick. Flame Fist - F2~Windmill Punch. Dragons Fire - F2~Bike Kick MB for a full combo. Dualist -F2~special.
19. Johnny Cage all variations - F3~special, EX Nut Punch for a full combo. Fisticuffs and Stunt Double - Nut Punch.
20. Erron Black all variations - 21122~special cancel on 4th hit for a full combo.
21. Shinnok all variations - F4~special for a full combo. Bone Shaper - F41D2~special for a full combo.
22. Kano all variations - B13~special (leads to a full combo in Cutthroat and Cybernetic). Commando - Choke and Ex Choke, Command Grab/Ex Command Grab(close range).
23. Predator all variations - F12 string into a full combo(must be a closer range B2).
24. Mileena all variations - roll(closer range) for a full combo. Piercing - B12~Roll for a full combo.
25. Kotal Kahn all variations - B122~special for a full combo, B14~special for a full combo.
26. Cassie Cage - B12~Flipkick for a full combo.
27. Takeda all variations - F3, F12 string for a full combo(close range), 21~special(close range and a 1 frame window)


WITH ICE CLONE OUT:
1. Jason Slasher - B122 for a full combo. Unstoppable and Relentless - Ex Command throw for 2o% and position reversal
2. Kung Lao Buzzsaw and hat Trick - Punishes both B33 and B2 with Ex Spin for a full combo.
3. Jax all variations - Ex overhead dash punch for a full combo.
4. Sonya all variations - Ex leg grab for 15% and position reversal.
5. Kenshi Kenjutsu and Possessed - BF2
6. Kitana all variations - Ex Rising Blades for a full combo, 212 string for a full combo, Ex Throat Slash. Royal Storm - Ex Square Boost. Mournful - Ex Shadow Kick
7. Scorpion all variations - Ex take down.
8. Sub-Zero all variations - Ex Slide, B12~ice ball for a full combo(must be a closer range B2).
9. Jacqui all variations - Ex BF1
10. Kung Jin all variations - Bf3/Ex BF3, 1,1,1~special of choice for a full combo.
11. Tanya all variations - Ex Drill Kick for a full combo. She also punishes B33 and B33~ex ice blast with Ex forward teleport for a full combo.
12. Goro all variations - Ex Command Grab and Ex Punch walk for a full combo. Kuatan Warrior - Ex Chest Lunge. Dragon Fangs - Ex Fang Spin for a full combo.
13. Raiden all variations - F12 string for a full combo.
14. D'Vorah all variations - B1~special which will full combo in Swarm Queen/B1 string, Ovipositor Charge.
15. F/T Ruthless - Ex Command Grab. Lackey - Ex Command Grab and Ex Roll
16. Reptile all variations - Ex Slide
17. Ermac MOS and Spectral - Ex Lift for a full combo. Mystic - Lift for a full combo.
18. Liu Kang all all variations - Ex Flying Kick. Flame Fist - Ex Windmill Punch, F2~Windmill Punch. Dragons Fire - F2~Bike Kick MB for a full combo. Dualist -F2~special.
19. Johnny Cage all variations - Ex Nut Punch for a full combo.
20. Erron Black all variations - 21122~special cancel on 4th hit for a full combo.
21. Shinnok all variations - Ex Shoulder. Bone Shaper - Ex Shoulder then Ex low Scepter for a full comb(requires 2 bars of meter).
22. Kano all variations - B13~special (leads to a full combo in Cutthroat and Cybernetic). Commando - Choke and Ex Choke, Ex Command Grab(b2 must be blocked close).
23. Predator all variations - F12 string into a full combo(must be a closer range B2).

If only YOU and people just like you took the time to lab vs SZ yourself, maybe he wouldnt have been nefed right away and/or his ex clone could be fixed. You want others to do the work for you while you spout garbage about things that are untrue. People like you are the reason why things get changed early.

 

[Ram]

This is a great thread! Can we retrospectively make an Injustice edition?

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

Displacer

1. 50/50 mix ups and pressure (4/5) Good mixups, but after f1 was nerfed his pressure isnt the same

2. Neutral game and footsies (5/5) – I think he has the second best neutral potential in the game

3. Defensive options (5/5) – EX Shocker can be low profiled but still has great implications and the other ex moves compensate for it

4. Zoning and anti-zoning (5/5) – I can't charge up the projectile but with the teleport I land it more than a lot of TGs would, prob second best anti zoning in the game but theres so little zoning that its usually a useless ability

5. Damage output (4/5) I have huge damage potential but its not sound to EX teleport twice in a combo unless end of the round or something so usually I do much less than TG without the LRC

This is a great thread! Can we retrospectively make an Injustice edition?

Shazam-

1- 5/5

2. 0/5

3. 2/5

4. 1/5

5. 5/5

about the 4th worst char in the game

 

[DanCock]

a lot of people are down playing their characters, GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER PEOPLE!!

Assassin (Kitana)

1. 50/50 mix ups and pressure (3/5) ~ i debated with myself that this could be 2/5
2. Neutral game and footsies (3/5)
3. Defensive options (4/5) ~ i debated with myself that this could be 3/5
4. Zoning and anti-zoning (4/5) ~ i debated with myself that this could be 3/5
5. Damage output (5/5)

19\25

FYI my assassin Damage output is about 2/5
my Kitata is about a 14/25 ~ im working hard at getting to her max potential, which i see as a 19/25

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

1. Jason Unstoppable and Relentless - Ex Command throw for 2o% and position reversal
2. Kung Lao Buzzsaw and hat Trick - Punishes both B33 and B2 with Ex Spin for a full combo.
3. Jax all variations - Ex overhead dash punch for a full combo.
4. Sonya all variations - Ex leg grab for 15% and position reversal.
5. Kenshi Kenjutsu and Possessed - BF2
6. Kitana all variations - Ex Rising Blades for a full combo, 212 string for a full combo, Ex Throat Slash. Royal Storm - Ex Square Boost. Mournful - Ex Shadow Kick
7. Scorpion all variations - Ex take down.
8. Sub-Zero all variations - Ex Slide.
9. Jacqui all variations - Ex BF1
10. Kung Jin all variations - Bf3/Ex BF3, 1,1,1~special of choice for a full combo.
11. Tanya all variations - Ex Drill Kick for a full combo. She also punishes B33 and B33~ex ice blast with Ex forward teleport for a full combo.
12. Goro all variations - Ex Cmmand Grab and Ex Punch walk for a full combo. Kuatan Warrior - Ex Chest Lunge. Dragon Fangs - Ex Fang Spin for a full combo.
13. Raiden all variations - Ex Shocker for a full combo and F12 string for a full combo.
14. D'Vorah all variations - B1~special which will full combo in Swarm Queen/B1 string, Ovipositor Charge.
15. F/T Ruthless - Ex Command Grab. Lackey - Ex Command Grab and Ex Roll
16. Reptile all variations - Ex Slide
17. Ermac MOS and Spectral - Ex Lift for a full combo. Mystic - Lift for a full combo.
18. Liu Kang all all variations - Ex Flying Kick. Flame Fist - Ex Windmill Punch, F2~Windmill Punch. Dragons Fire - F2~Bike Kick MB for a full combo. Dualist -F2~special.
19. Johnny Cage all variations - Ex Nut Punch for a full combo.
20. Erron Black all variations - 21122~special cancel on 4th hit for a full combo.
21. Shinnok all variations - Ex Shoulder.
22. Kano all variations - B13~special (leads to a full combo in Cutthroat and Cybernetic). Commando - Choke and Ex Choke, Ex Command Grab(b2 must be blocked close).
23. Predator all variations - F12 string into a full combo.


I listed 23 that can punish and 14 of the 23 for a full combo. Without clone there are many characters that can punish SZ's B2 for a full combo and this happens a lot in open space situations.


If only YOU and people just like you took the time to lab vs SZ yourself, maybe he wouldnt have been nefed right away and/or his ex clone could be fixed. You want others to do the work for you while you spout garbage about things that are untrue. People like you are the reason why things get changed early.

I love to mock you and I find your crying funny but DAMN you put this guy in his place.

 

[Mista_Snacks]

Based on this thread jax is hands down the best character In the game and dualist liu Kang is lul tier

 

[Juggs]

People really need to consider the rest of the cast when weighing in on their character's scores.

According to some of y'all a lot of bad characters have equal scores to the top ten, yet they're somehow worse? Makes 0 sense

Match ups. A character can technically be 25/25 and be the worst character in the game based on match ups (if I have to elaborate I will, but it will make me sad that I have to). Match ups are more important than how good a character is.

 

[Big Pampering]

1. Jason Unstoppable and Relentless - Ex Command throw for 2o% and position reversal
2. Kung Lao Buzzsaw and hat Trick - Punishes both B33 and B2 with Ex Spin for a full combo.
3. Jax all variations - Ex overhead dash punch for a full combo.
4. Sonya all variations - Ex leg grab for 15% and position reversal.
5. Kenshi Kenjutsu and Possessed - BF2
6. Kitana all variations - Ex Rising Blades for a full combo, 212 string for a full combo, Ex Throat Slash. Royal Storm - Ex Square Boost. Mournful - Ex Shadow Kick
7. Scorpion all variations - Ex take down.
8. Sub-Zero all variations - Ex Slide.
9. Jacqui all variations - Ex BF1
10. Kung Jin all variations - Bf3/Ex BF3, 1,1,1~special of choice for a full combo.
11. Tanya all variations - Ex Drill Kick for a full combo. She also punishes B33 and B33~ex ice blast with Ex forward teleport for a full combo.
12. Goro all variations - Ex Cmmand Grab and Ex Punch walk for a full combo. Kuatan Warrior - Ex Chest Lunge. Dragon Fangs - Ex Fang Spin for a full combo.
13. Raiden all variations - Ex Shocker for a full combo and F12 string for a full combo.
14. D'Vorah all variations - B1~special which will full combo in Swarm Queen/B1 string, Ovipositor Charge.
15. F/T Ruthless - Ex Command Grab. Lackey - Ex Command Grab and Ex Roll
16. Reptile all variations - Ex Slide
17. Ermac MOS and Spectral - Ex Lift for a full combo. Mystic - Lift for a full combo.
18. Liu Kang all all variations - Ex Flying Kick. Flame Fist - Ex Windmill Punch, F2~Windmill Punch. Dragons Fire - F2~Bike Kick MB for a full combo. Dualist -F2~special.
19. Johnny Cage all variations - Ex Nut Punch for a full combo.
20. Erron Black all variations - 21122~special cancel on 4th hit for a full combo.
21. Shinnok all variations - Ex Shoulder.
22. Kano all variations - B13~special (leads to a full combo in Cutthroat and Cybernetic). Commando - Choke and Ex Choke, Ex Command Grab(b2 must be blocked close).
23. Predator all variations - F12 string into a full combo.


I listed 23 that can punish and 14 of the 23 for a full combo. Without clone there are many characters that can punish SZ's B2 for a full combo and this happens a lot in open space situations.


If only YOU and people just like you took the time to lab vs SZ yourself, maybe he wouldnt have been nefed right away and/or his ex clone could be fixed. You want others to do the work for you while you spout garbage about things that are untrue. People like you are the reason why things get changed early.

First of all you need to stop assuming shit. I know how my character punishes B2, I have done MY research. I have gone into the lab to find my punishes for the b2. Second of all you can go find a post where I said I wanted to get subzero nerfed, because I was against the nerfing.

 

[Tom Brady]

I love to mock you and I find your crying funny but DAMN you put this guy in his place.

I just find it ridiculous that it falls on the character specialist to educate all or nerfs are coming. Its like there should be no responsibility for people to lab on how to defeat something. Either the specialist does all the work for you or nerfs are demanded. Look at Tanya and SZ, a specialist had to literally tell them all of their options because people swore they had none. This leads to early nerfs and "oops.. sorry abut that" later.

 

[Tom Brady]

First of all you need to stop assuming shit. I know how my character punishes B2, I have done MY research. I have gone into the lab to find my punishes for the b2. Second of all you can go find a post where I said I wanted to get subzero nerfed, because I was against the nerfing.

But you came from a place of assuming there weren't many that could punish. One players assumption becomes another players fact, and PRESTO, false perception spreads and becomes reality.

You didn't even believe me unless I literally wrote down EVERY CHARACTERS options.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I just find it ridiculous that it falls on the character specialist to educate all or nerfs are coming. Its like there should be no responsibility for people to lab on how to defeat something. Either the specialist does all the work for you or nerfs are demanded. Look at Tanya and SZ, a specialist had to literally tell them all of their options because people swore they had none. This leads to early nerfs and "oops.. sorry abut that" later.

Tell me about it. Tanya got butchered.

 

[Big Pampering]

I love to mock you and I find your crying funny but DAMN you put this guy in his place.

How did he put me in my place. I know my punishes for the b2. Why do I need to know how every single character in the game punishes b2 with the clone up, he even put things in there that ignored the clone and those were only punishes for the b2 without a clone up. He is basically putting words in my mouth and is assuming I cried for any nerfs, while I haven't asked for any nerfs since the game came out.

I wanted to legitimately know which characters can punish it for a full combo and he acts like its the worst thing in the world when people need meter to punish your overhead and more than a third of the cast cannot full combo punish it.

But whatever man, you will believe whatever you want to believe.

 

[OneEyeTwoHead]

First of all you need to stop assuming shit. I know how my character punishes B2, I have done MY research. I have gone into the lab to find my punishes for the b2. Second of all you can go find a post where I said I wanted to get subzero nerfed, because I was against the nerfing.

Dude you got fucking SLAMMED.

And your reply to him supplying the research you asked for is to...?

LOL

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

How did he put me in my place. I know my punishes for the b2. Why do I need to know how every single character in the game punishes b2 with the clone up, he even put things in there that ignored the clone and those were only punishes for the b2 without a clone up. He is basically putting words in my mouth and is assuming I cried for any nerfs, while I haven't asked for any nerfs since the game came out.

I wanted to legitimately know which characters can punish it for a full combo and he acts like its the worst thing in the world when people need meter to punish your overhead and more than a third of the cast cannot full combo punish it.

But whatever man, you will believe whatever you want to believe.

Yakkady yak...don't talk back

 

[Big Pampering]

But you came from a place of assuming there weren't many that could punish. One players assumption becomes another players fact, and PRESTO, false perception spreads and becomes reality.

You didn't even believe me unless I literally wrote down EVERY CHARACTERS options.

No, that is what you assumed. Find me a post where I preached that subzeros overhead was safe, with the clone up I said it was safe ish and without meter(which isnt even a rare scenario in this game) it won't get punished. The thing is a little over a third over the cast cannot punish it for a full combo and you need meter for it, which is more than you can say about other overheads or lows.

I know that prettty much every armored move that is 14 frames or faster can punish it. I have done my work, I know my ex spin punishes it, I know my f2 punishes it without the clone up and never asked for any nerfs, not for subzero. NOT EVEN for pre patch raiden. So gtfo and don't lump me together with whatever player that wanted subzero nerfed. I get that you are mad about the nerfs, but if you want to get mad, get mad at the people who actually wanted subzero nerfed.

 

[Tom Brady]

No, that is what you assumed. Find me a post where I preached that subzeros overhead was safe, with the clone up I said it was safe ish and without meter(which isnt even a rare scenario in this game) it won't get punished. The thing is a little over a third over the cast cannot punish it for a full combo and you need meter for it, which is more than you can say about other overheads or lows.

I know that prettty much every armored move that is 14 frames or faster can punish it. I have done my work, I know my ex spin punishes it, I know my f2 punishes it without the clone up and never asked for any nerfs, not for subzero. NOT EVEN for pre patch raiden. So gtfo and don't lump me together with whatever player that wanted subzero nerfed. I get that you are mad about the nerfs, but if you want to get mad, get mad at the people who actually wanted subzero nerfed.

Half the cast getting a full combo and almost everyone getting something like a position reverse + hard knockdown is not safe-ish to me. Who wants to eat a hard knockdown and have to get up cornered vs Sonya? Its not always about damage, its about the situation you are left in as well. You assumed it was reasonably safe vs most in this situation and you were mistaken.

If SZ spent most of every match with the opponent cornered, he'd be #1. Fact is a lot of of a match then is admitted takes place mid screen where is Overhead is punished by almost every character for no meter. This is why I rated is 50/50 ability the way I did, its punished in corners for a full combo by half the cast and punished in general by most. In open space a vast majority can punish for a combo.

 

[Big Pampering]

Okay whatever guys. Believe what you want, I have done my work with my character and know my punishes, but apparantly you can get blown up because you don't know how freakin jason punishes something specifically even though that shouldn't even be relevant for my own gameplay . FTR I did not spread misinformation, because I haven't even really said anything about subzero to begin with.

@AK L0rdoftheFLY I hope you enjoy the tanya nerfs

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

Spoiler

Stunt double johnny cage
Mixups and pressure: 2.5/5 his "mixups are fairly obvious to block against once you get the mu down. Stunt double pressure can be countered quite simply as well through armor

Neutral game and footsies 3.5/5 besidess close to nonexistent anti airs johnny has great footsies due to shadow kick that allows johnny to get in.D4 is an amazing tool to low profile and annoy the opponent.

Defensive options: 3/5. Wake up ex nut punch is only a great wakeup if and only if your opponent does not know the johnny mu. If they do it will be easily countered. Wake up ex shadow uppercut will sometimes whiff the full attack on a jumping opponent. Mimic wake upss do not have armor so they are easy to scout and pressure if johnny has no meter.

Zoning and anti zoning: 2/5. The.Straight forceball can be neutral ducked and a johnny will not win a zoning war. His only saving grace ism ex shadow kick to stop their zoning immediately. If johnny had his arced projectiles in stunt double his zoning would easily be a 5/5 or 4.5/5

Damage output 5/5. If you can open them up johnny will greatly damage them and this turns the tide of the match. Midscreen with two shadows can get 50 percent for 1 bar.
Overall 16/25 his damage is his saving grace while the rest of the character is quite average. If his arced projectiles were in stunt double he would be an extremel. Good character with options for every mu.

i agree with most of this, except in the mixups/pressure department and the zoning department.

i'd grant them each .5-1 point further.

for mixups and pressure, i think tools like ex shadow upper are worth mentioning when considering once the clone is out, the opponent is forced to respect it and also forced to block high. it does good chip, and leads to really good situations for johnny. additionally, his d4 pressure is really really good since they are always looking for f24 in neutral or on wakeup, and a d4 on hit leads to a free f3 frame trap that can be made safe or converted into with a clone upper afterwards. also, the clone kick is very plus on block, and can be spaced in such away that on wakeup it will eat the armor of a reversal but leave JC untouched and open to whiff punish the opponents reversal. his mixup isn't the best, but his pressure certainly is.

as for zoning/anti zoning, i think you were more on the money on that one but clone kick defo deserves a shout out; it goes through projectiles, is super fast, and leads JC getting his game started on hit or on block. its a really good anti zoning tool that'll make people scared to zone at certain places on screen after you have activate.

 

[Big Pampering]

Half the cast getting a full combo and almost everyone getting something like a position reverse + hard knockdown is not safe-ish to me. Who wants to eat a hard knockdown and have to get up cornered vs Sonya? Its not always about damage, its about the situation you are left in as well. You assumed it was reasonably safe vs most in this situation and you were mistaken.

If SZ spent most of every match with the opponent cornered, he'd be #1. Fact is a lot of of a match then is admitted takes place mid screen where is Overhead is punished by almost every character for no meter. This is why I rated is 50/50 ability the way I did, its punished in corners for a full combo by half the cast and punished in general by most. In open space a vast majority can punish for a combo.

I mean we can argue all day about whether it is safe-ish or not, but without meter and with the clone up it won't get punished by most and that is what I mean by safe-ish. And yeh ofcourse getting knocked down in this game is a bad situation and I didn't say it was no big deal. But already losing 30% some life and then get knocked down is still different from losing 10-15% life into a hard knockdown especially when we are talking about guessing wrong on a 50/50 into full combo+ setup into another mixup.

Also ex shocker doesnt punish b2

 

[brizzle]

It's weird, there seems to be more people up playing than down playing. Some people have top 6-10 chars at 20/22. I don't think some people know what a 23 or 24 would mean for your character which is basically S+or Broken. A 25 is God tier. I don't think there are any S+ anymore. Maybe S which I think would be 22 max

 

[Derptile]

LMAO at some of the downplaying of Cage, EB, Mileena, and Kung Lao. Anyways

Cybernetic Kano

50/50s and pressure: 3/5: It's not so bad but it's not anything to right home about. You mix it up between 2, b31, b1, b13, and the occasional Ex knive toss. But you can just backdash everything, and 2 is a high.

Neutral game: 4/5: b2 has good range but is slow and has terrible priority, b1 is a good fast normal with AA, knives are good, f4 is pretty good, d4 and d3 are good, great forward dash and backdash, Kano has a good neutral.

Defensive options: 4/5: Get off the ground for free with ex upball, or on read do an EX ball cancel and combo

Zoning and Anti zoning: 4/5: TBH his zoning is pretty overrated. Yes he has a nice projectile but it does like 5% and is no where near as good as someone like Kenshi or Quan Cheese. His airball is really good for anti zoning though.

Damage: 3/5: Most characters with low midscreen combos get good damage with meter, but that's not the case here.

Total: 18/25, he's a whatever character that seems good if you have a strong neutral.


MoS Ermac

50/50s and pressure: 5/5: F4 into 40%, b3 into 32%, Insta-air blasts, a good d3. This character hurts, has a great vortex, and good pokes.

Neutral game: 3/5: Not so strong. His main thing for neutral is to do a b124 to get in and start his shenanigans, but it's nothing to write home about.

Defensive Options: 4/5: Used to be whatever, but that Ex Burst buff really helped. Good pokes, armor on wakeup Ex tele is better than nothing.

Zoning and Anti zoning: 4/5: Who's gonna try to win a fireball war against Soul ball? Also lift shenanigans are actually good and should be explored, and of course obvious teleport.

Damage output: 5/5: Constant high damaging vortex, nothing else needs to be said.

Total: 21/25, he's the reason why I have an Ermac tier.


Dragon's Fire Rooooooo Kang

50/50 and pressure: 5/5, borderline 6/5
Neutral: 5/5
Defensive options: 3/5
Zoning and anti zoning: 4/5
Damage output: 5/5

Total: 22/25, secret broken tier.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

LMAO at some of the downplaying of Cage, EB, Mileena, and Kung Lao. Anyways

Cybernetic Kano

50/50s and pressure: 2/5: It's not so bad but it's not anything to right home about. You mix it up between 2, b31, b1, b13, and the occasional Ex knive toss. But you can just backdash everything, and 2 is a high.

Neutral game: 4/5: b2 has good range but is slow and has terrible priority, b1 is a good fast normal with AA, knives are good, f4 is pretty good, d4 and d3 are good, great forward dash and backdash, Kano has a good neutral.

Defensive options: 4/5: Get off the ground for free with ex upball, or on read do an EX ball cancel and combo

Zoning and Anti zoning: 4/5: TBH his zoning is pretty overrated. Yes he has a nice projectile but it does like 5% and is no where near as good as someone like Kenshi or Quan Cheese. His airball is really good for anti zoning though.

Damage: 3/5: Most characters with low midscreen combos get good damage with meter, but that's not the case here.

Total: 17/25, he's a whatever character that seems good if you have a strong neutral.


MoS Ermac

50/50s and pressure: 5/5: F4 into 40%, b3 into 32%, Insta-air blasts, a good d3. This character hurts, has a great vortex, and good pokes.

Neutral game: 3/5: Not so strong. His main thing for neutral is to do a b124 to get in and start his shenanigans, but it's nothing to write home about.

Defensive Options: 4/5: Used to be whatever, but that Ex Burst buff really helped. Good pokes, armor on wakeup Ex tele is better than nothing.

Zoning and Anti zoning: 4/5: Who's gonna try to win a fireball war against Soul ball? Also lift shenanigans are actually good and should be explored, and of course obvious teleport.

Damage output: 5/5: Constant high damaging vortex, nothing else needs to be said.

Total: 21/25, he's the reason why I have an Ermac tier.


Dragon's Fire Rooooooo Kang

50/50 and pressure: 5/5, borderline 6/5
Neutral: 5/5
Defensive options: 3/5
Zoning and anti zoning: 4.5/5
Damage output: 5/5

Total: 22.5/25

Show us the ways of Mileena please lmao.

 

[Mortal Komhat]

Did anyone do Dragon Fangs? 'cause I'm gonna do that, I think.

Spoiler: 50/50s / Pressure - 3/5

On the first side, Goro does not have a lot of 50/50s - While everything that does not knockdown and is cancelable immediately goes into EX Fang Spin (the chief advantage of Dragon Fangs), opening them up is more a game of throw vs. hit, which is not exactly ideal. However, when Goro lands that hit, you have to do everything in your power to keep him out of your ass. He has a long-reach overhead that knocks back extremely far and hits relatively fast (Start-up of 16 if I recall correctly), can be comboed out of the corner for up to 39%, setting you back in the same situation. His pressure is tremendous compared to a lot of the characters, however, if he punch walks and it's blocked, it's the end of his pressure and now he's placed on the defensive, which is not a good position immediately after a punch walk.

He also gains db2 which is a low poke that knocks down at a decent range. It's predictable, but IIRC somewhat safe. Combined with f4 and additional range on his b12u2 (very minimal, but it's such a key component of the character that it's necessary to mention), it's a good variation for pressure, but is sadly outdone by Kuatan Warrior on this front.

Spoiler: Neutral / Footsies - 4/5

Dragon Fangs is the most footsie oriented Goro due to the minimal reach increase and the addition of db2 and Fang Spin. He already has great footsie tools that yield good damage such as f3 and f4, but one of his most overlooked amazing normals is his sweep. b4 hits at starting round range, is a 9f sweep that recovers fast and allows Goro to close the gap and apply pressure. It also low profiles High attacks, and has a big enough hitbox to hit false low crushes (read : anything that isn't hard coded to be a low crush).

On the special move side, Tele Stomp is NOT a good footsie tool - Too predictable, but it has its uses elsewhere as I will cover. Where I want to draw some attention is to his 7f command grab, which does 2% more than the regular Shokan Grab in Dragon Fangs. This has a deceptively longer range, and can catch limbs tossed willy nilly. Sadly, this has to be done on a read, but correctly baiting something into Shokan Grab is a good way to start offense from this patch onwards as Shokan Grab now grants enough time to close the gap with two dashes.

Another good footsie tool is that his dash is actually better than his run, enough that your stamina should be used for run combos only (his no meter bnb is one, so learn that!), interactables and breakers/block breakers. Granted, a good run would help Goro tremendously, but it's my opinion that he doesn't need it.

Spoiler: Defensive Options - 3/5

Goro loses points for having everything on paper to deal with aerial attacks and nothing working as intended. His uppercut is Jacqui tier, U1/U2 share the same frame data which is horrendous (and does little damage so even using it in combos is bad) and his standing 1 and 2 are fast but not good enough to stem the tide of people jumping in on him.

However, if he can keep the match grounded, his defensive options are incredible. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread to justify his rating as "He has Punch Walk" - And quite frankly just EX Punch Walk should bring this rating up to at least a 4. However, my problem with starting and ending Goro's defensive options with Punch Walk is that A) in order to use it, you need to have meter and Goro does not build nearly enough meter to support his Punch Walk habit and B) if it's blocked, you just re-surrendered advantage to your opponent and Goro's options are so Punch Walk-centric that it's easier to assume he'll do it than not, so blocking on Wakeup or after interrupting a string they expect to gap through is a great way to bust them open or have them waste meter so you can reapply your stuff.

That does not mean he's defenseless as he has two other options, and a third one in Dragon Fangs.

His anti-air of choice is EX Tele Stomp. It hits on the way up, it has one point of armor, and his entire body becomes a hitbox. He CAN be hit out of it if you hit him late enough, but that is actually impractical as most times you'll just eat 14% and be placed under Goro's pressure. As a side note, if your Goro is swag, he can U1/U2 you on a cross-up and cancel into EX Tele Stomp for not that great amount of damage to your character, but #youshouldretire level of damage to the ego.

EX Shokan Grab has one hit of armor and will stop cold anything that isn't armored. It, sadly, does not have extended range, but it's still a 19/20% (I don't remember the damage values as I do not practice what I preach and use that as a defense) reversal that now allows you to reverse the pressure.

EX Fang Spin is the true gem of Dragon Fangs - It is more damage than EX Punch Walk, can be used as an Anti-Air due to its one hit of armor, and will immediately suck in opponents, ensuring they get hit with all three hits for maximum combo damage.

However, as you can see, all of these options require meter. Which is why it's only a 3/5 - Goro is meter starved at all times.

Spoiler: Zoning and Anti-Zoning - 2/5

Dragon Fangs is the worst Goro variation on that aspect.

While Tigrar Fury's fireball can be used to set up a Tele Stomp as Anti-Zoning, and Kuatan Warrior can keep zoners in check with its Ground Pound, Dragon Fangs is a variation chiefly made for getting in people's faces (or at least in your limbs' length) - It has nothing on Anti-Zoning that warrants talking about. Goro's regular fireball is too slow for any anti-zoning or zoning respectively, and his EX fireball, even if it's a fireball that hits for 15% Mid, is too slow to start-up to warrant using in most situations (granted if you CAN find a place to use it, please do). It's similar to Shazam's MB lightning bolt - Crapton of damage, can never be used in any situation.

I could talk at length on the virtues of Tigrar and Kuatan for this, but Dragon Fangs is just weak on that front.

Spoiler: Damage - 4/5

Dragon Fangs is Goro's easiest damage - everything it does with Meter is 40%+ or close enough to it without the need for burning another meter when they're knocked down on their ass, forfeiting pressure.

It's command grab is one of the highest damaging in the game as well, with the EX version outdamaging Kano's and other people's. Where its problems lie is in applying that damage. Yet it would still have an incredibly high damage potential due to all of its tools working well together. The problem? Meter consumption, again. Fix that, and practically all of Goro's problems disappear, which may not be such a good idea when thinking about it.

Total : 16/25