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Question pressure characters...not worth it?

Osagri

Fear the blade of Osh-Tekk
heavy weapons jax has - cancels, right? they are still pretty useful if you ask me
Jax hw plays very different than a-list. Jax has different tools for he's pressure. 11 being i6 start up and +2 on block for example. He's cancel is more of a meter building and hitconfirming. It's great for pressure too but every one can poke out of it. I think it would destroy a-list if hes cancels were like jax's. Cage doesn't have a low starter. Not sure of he's buttons but I think it would break break a-list.
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
That's because Jax already has 50/50s to open people up. The RCs are there for conversions and extra damage, if he had actual RCs he'd be the best character in the game.
Jax hw plays very different than a-list. Jax has different tools for he's pressure. 11 being i6 start up and +2 on block for example. He's cancel is more of a meter building and hitconfirming. It's great for pressure too but every one can poke out of it. I think it would destroy a-list if hes cancels were like jax's. Cage doesn't have a low starter. Not sure of he's buttons but I think it would break break a-list.
Derptile you mean like d'vorah?

anyway, I understand that DF kang and alist cage are built differently, but that's still a character archetype that in my opinion makes no sense.
 

trustinme

xbl-OBS trustinme
Derptile you mean like d'vorah?

anyway, I understand that DF kang and alist cage are built differently, but that's still a character archetype that in my opinion makes no sense.
Don't you just want to brush your teeth and push buttons forever?
 

Skedar70

Noob
Yeah I don't play cancel characters because I don't have the execution. Sonicfox seems to not use any cancel characters either. Don't forget about honeybee he is the best dvorah player and he has dropped a few tournament placings because of missed cancels. Probably worth it if you have the time to get the cancels on point.
 

xSamuel

Player of All, Master of None.
Cage is absolutely worth it. There are plenty of strings that you can do that don't need to be frame perfect or near it to jail, 114, S4, B34, etc. If I ever catch people pushing buttons in my pressure it either means they got mixed up or they are trying to mash out armor. If it's the latter I just stop my pressure and get that free punish. Other "safe" armors can usually be blown up by 1,2 into full combo. Cage's zoning is good enough to where he can contest the zoner by throwing an up force ball and running/dashing in a good distance. Cage is a maniac, that's 100% certain @cheschifodisito
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
Derptile you mean like d'vorah?

anyway, I understand that DF kang and alist cage are built differently, but that's still a character archetype that in my opinion makes no sense.
Jax has better pokes, armor, mobility, and multiple normals which are plus on block without RCs.

There's a reason why they're both designed the way they are. Still, D'vorah's probably better.
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Jax has better pokes, armor, mobility, and multiple normals which are plus on block without RCs.

There's a reason why they're both designed the way they are. Still, D'vorah's probably better.
so, what I said. still, even in the current status, they shouldn't jail or break armor. having a good execution isn't an excuse to turn off the brain.
 
Serious question, when you guys say a move is armored do you guys mean an enhanced move? Like a move that requires one bar correct? As in Kitana's bf3+block?
 
some enchanced moves can take a hit without being interrupted, those are the moves we refer to. not every enhanced move has armor though.
Ah ok, so some enhanced moves that require bar have armor meaning that even if the opponent is hitting you with another hit since yours has armor it'll win correct? Also is this what they mean when people talk about wake up counters?
 

MrProfDrPepper

NRS, Guilty Gear, and KI, the holy trinity
I guess being able to hitconfirm into a full combo or be safe is not good enough.
Being negative isn't being safe... Even if it isn't a full combo punish you still are being punished for being negative in the form of losing positioning, the opponent being able to pressure you, etc. It gives your opponent time to set up their game safety is being plus or neutral. The only time negative frames are truly safe is when it is at a distance, and even then you aren't always safe, but in the context of run cancels, obviously you are in their face so you are not safe in the slightest
 

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Administrator
Being negative isn't being safe... Even if it isn't a full combo punish you still are being punished for being negative in the form of losing positioning, the opponent being able to pressure you, etc. It gives your opponent time to set up their game safety is being plus or neutral. The only time negative frames are truly safe is when it is at a distance, and even then you aren't always safe, but in the context of run cancels, obviously you are in their face so you are not safe in the slightest
I'm tempted to post this on scrubquotes.
 

Shaikhuzzaman

magicmeerkatman
If you practice and learn a pressure character properly then you will be sure of your character and not fear messing up guaranteed pressure. Also if a string has a gap in it it just becomes an opportunity for you to bait armour from your opponent
 

Baconlord

Proud follower of the church of Cetrion
Being negative isn't being safe... Even if it isn't a full combo punish you still are being punished for being negative in the form of losing positioning, the opponent being able to pressure you, etc. It gives your opponent time to set up their game safety is being plus or neutral. The only time negative frames are truly safe is when it is at a distance, and even then you aren't always safe, but in the context of run cancels, obviously you are in their face so you are not safe in the slightest
question, is this your first fighting game.
 

SylverRye

Official Loop Kang Main
so, what I said. still, even in the current status, they shouldn't jail or break armor. having a good execution isn't an excuse to turn off the brain.
Cancel characters take more of a brain than standard 50 50 characters. Its easy to go up and mix someone when a character has a low and oh starter. Canceling perfectly especially when it doesn't jail is not. If cancels require to switch off your brain, i wonder what 50 50 characters are then lol.
 

Shaikhuzzaman

magicmeerkatman
Cancel characters take more of a brain than standard 50 50 characters. Its easy to go up and mix someone when a character has a low and oh starter. Canceling perfectly especially when it doesn't jail is not. If cancels require to switch off your brain, i wonder what 50 50 characters are then lol.
Pressure characters don't require you to make any decisions. To be clear I'm not saying 50/50s do. Similarly it is easy to go up and get some chip damage that they can only prevent with two bars
 

SylverRye

Official Loop Kang Main
Cancel characters imo aren't worth learning when u have straight up 50 50 maniacs like sonya kano shinnok alien and others. They are very good,but you're always going to be doing more than a standard character imo. I main liu but pocket takeda for the times i want to play and not worry about being-1000 if i mess up. Only learn them if they are fun to you imo.
 

MrProfDrPepper

NRS, Guilty Gear, and KI, the holy trinity
question, is this your first fighting game.
I'm tempted to post this on scrubquotes.
No... How the hell does what I say sound scrubby? If you are negative, you are at a disadvantageous situation. Which obviously is not good. Just because you aren't getting raw damage doesn't mean it isn't a punish. If you are negative and give a zoner time to back up for zoning is that not punishing you for being negative? Yes you can take advantage of a situation where you are negative on block but don't insult my intelligence by calling me a scrub or asking if this is my first fighting game. It isn't. Keep in mind when I say negative is always punishable, i am only talking about cancels, cancels for pressure, as in up in the opponents face, if you are negative, generally it is your opponents turn to pressure/push buttons is it not? Yes, there is armor and counter pokes etc. But even then your opponent has more options than you when you are negative. no shit if it is from full screen you are safe. Literally how does that not make sense?
 

SylverRye

Official Loop Kang Main
Pressure characters don't require you to make any decisions. To be clear I'm not saying 50/50s do. Similarly it is easy to go up and get some chip damage that they can only prevent with two bars
Uh what? Liu kang is a pressure character, a lot of his cancels dont jail, so when im pressuring i think "ok this wont jail, he can try to backdash, should i stop my string and run in to catch it"? "He has a bar and can armor this cancel, should i cancel into block and bait it or just do it and see if he knows he can beat it"? Those sound like options and decision making to me. I challenge any of you to use a cancel character and see if you can herp derp pressure your way to victory.