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General/Other - Takeda Kano B1 abuse vs Takeda

Premonitionist

Call Me Premo - Mileena, D'Vorah, Cassie, Kitana.
I played against blak fellow's Kano too, He introduced me to the B+1 lol. Though I don't like a 9 frame mid that forward advances and is 0/+1 on block it wasn't that bad, then again Mileena has a 7 frame roll so there's that, still a huge risk and big guessing game though. I wouldn't argue with it being changed to -1 or a high haha
 
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RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
dude i get that, im not over here saying after that after i block that string i dont have options, as playing to win who used the variation against me i won our set we played. my problem, and i'll make this clear, i do not think b1 should be like that against my character. if i had a better d1 or faster armor that would be pretty cool. yes after b13 2+4 i have options i never said that this is just the end all be all as soon as he gets in like this bitch billstickers is implying. but is my only option cornered with no meter literally to sit there and take b1 until he decided to do something else? i find that quite bullshit when the rest of the cast can just fucking poke out. when you were saying let him do b13 2+4 i was looking for punishes and naming things kano can do afterwards.
welcome to characters where frames aren't on your side
 

Immortal

Blind justice....
dude i get that, im not over here saying after that after i block that string i dont have options, as playing to win who used the variation against me i won our set we played. my problem, and i'll make this clear, i do not think b1 should be like that against my character. if i had a better d1 or faster armor that would be pretty cool. yes after b13 2+4 i have options i never said that this is just the end all be all as soon as he gets in like this bitch billstickers is implying. but is my only option cornered with no meter literally to sit there and take b1 until he decided to do something else? i find that quite bullshit when the rest of the cast can just fucking poke out. when you were saying let him do b13 2+4 i was looking for punishes and naming things kano can do afterwards.
While i do agree with you on that particular MU example. Truth to be told - like a half of characters in this game have worse normals then others and are in the same boat as Takeda in this situation. Imo this is a way bigger problem then Takeda only or Kano only for that matter.
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
While i do agree with you on that particular MU example. Truth to be told - like a half of characters in this game have worse normals then others and are in the same boat as Takeda in this situation. Imo this is a way bigger problem then Takeda only or Kano only for that matter.
like who?
 

st9rm

viennality.com
i'm facing the same issue
the armor move gives you a 30+% combo, but ofc you get full combo punished if he blocks that move
i guess push blocking seems to be your best option atm
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
okay just to make it clear your just telling me to deal with it? no animosity just want to know exactly what you meant by that statement.
yeah thats exactly what im telling you. its honestly not the end of the world that your character struggles up close when he has long ass normals

also keep in mind that kano only has access to b13 2+4 in cybernetic. also in cutthroat he has a different b1.
 

Awkward Sloth

Lamest Harley, still better sloth than Jer
Hey guys it's your boy Zyphox here and I just watched NLBC last night like the rest of you and I now discovered that Kano's b1 is the best normal to ever exist in a fighting game specially against Takeda who I main and is the best in the world with. I don't think you guys know this but I placed first at the break with Takeda a few weeks ago so I know what I'm talking about when I say Takeda has no options as all up close not even armor. He also has terrible mix ups that are super transparent so I think that his standing 1 should be a 4 frame overhead and his d3 should be 5 frame unblockable into a full combo 50/50 set up, his long range game is not good enough so it should be a 9 frame overhead into a 2 frame low because it's fair.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
To be honest this itself is not really that much of a problem. Kano isn't just going to use a raw B1, he's going to look for the hit confirm from B13. B13 is also neutral so realistically you're going to want to test B13, B13, B13 etc on block and test your options. As you said in the video you can trade with uppercut or armour. But even when you've found the solution yourself, you're now like "oh but it's punishable on block".....so? If your option is to uppercut then you uppercut on a read. In the same way Kano will only stop doing B13 on a read. If he stops and you don't do anything you're out, that's the solution here, don't just ignore that. Both players have to make decisions in this situation and if Kano guesses wrong he's back to full screen where you have more space control. If you guess wrong it's full combo, but not off of a raw B1. Off of just B1 he'll.....just....keep you in the corner until you make a good read or he makes a bad one.

But in saying that if Takeda had fast normals and he had nearly full screen reaching moves...well...let's just say people would be thinking about a certain Injustice character with fast normals and far reaching moves.

And people suggesting B1 be nerfed: seriously?! Because it affects one character like this or at max a few? Come on.
 

cyke_out

Noob
Who is this imaginary Kano player that can read every single one of your possible counter options and punish you with his amazingly psychic playstyle?

It seems you are looking for a 100% guaranteed option that will work everytime with no risk to you. That is not going to happen in every situation.

If you predict that Kano is predicting armor which means he will block, then don't do armor, start your pressure, throw, back off..
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
Hey guys it's your boy Zyphox here and I just watched NLBC last night like the rest of you and I now discovered that Kano's b1 is the best normal to ever exist in a fighting game specially against Takeda who I main and is the best in the world with. I don't think you guys know this but I placed first at the break with Takeda a few weeks ago so I know what I'm talking about when I say Takeda has no options as all up close not even armor. He also has terrible mix ups that are super transparent so I think that his standing 1 should be a 4 frame overhead and his d3 should be 5 frame unblockable into a full combo 50/50 set up, his long range game is not good enough so it should be a 9 frame overhead into a 2 frame low because it's fair.
lol
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
How would making b1 one frame slower to recover (from 0 to -1) be such a bad thing? He still has b13 to go to and would still be in the exact same "read" situation he is in now, but there is less brainlessness.

Characters like Takeda and Kitana (and I guarantee others) have 1 frame to "trade" with the next incoming b1. Kitana's standing and crouching 1 is 8f and I've not been able to beat this 9f move clean once in hundreds of attempts, I only trade. The only other options are punishable armor, backdash which loses to b13 and is difficult to time correctly, or block breaker and you lose all of your resources.
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
Honestly @Zyphox I agree with most people here. It's tough for Takeda up close but taking away his b1 (or making it really easy for you to get out of it for that matter) would be disastrous for Kano.

Just accept that he has this and move on IMHO.
like i said i dont think they should nerf kano, i'm just suggesting that seeing how this game is rushdown oriented takeda is going to suffer in the long run without a faster poke, and this is a prime example of some of the BS he has to deal with. its not like im getting bodied by cyber kano's and coming here and crying, i saw this done to me and i'm like holy shit this is dumb. i eventually get out, but a lot of people like to stretch people's word and are sitting behind there computer acting like im trying to get kano nerfed or takeda buffed, but what im actually doing is exploring options by replying to these posts.
 

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
How would making b1 one frame slower to recover (from 0 to -1) be such a bad thing? He still has b13 to go to and would still be in the exact same "read" situation he is in now, but there is less brainlessness.

Characters like Takeda and Kitana (and I guarantee others) have 1 frame to "trade" with the next incoming b1. Kitana's standing and crouching 1 is 8f and I've not been able to beat this 9f move clean once in hundreds of attempts, I only trade. The only other options are punishable armor, backdash which loses to b13 and is difficult to time correctly, or block breaker and you lose all of your resources.
Why would Takeda block breaker when he can just do any of his armored options into full combo?
 

LionHeart

Whisper within a sigh
like i said i dont think they should nerf kano, i'm just suggesting that seeing how this game is rushdown oriented takeda is going to suffer in the long run without a faster poke, and this is a prime example of some of the BS he has to deal with. its not like im getting bodied by cyber kano's and coming here and crying, i saw this done to me and i'm like holy shit this is dumb. i eventually get out, but a lot of people like to stretch people's word and are sitting behind there computer acting like im trying to get kano nerfed or takeda buffed, but what im actually doing is exploring options by replying to these posts.
Agreed, its pretty dumb...
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
How would making b1 one frame slower to recover (from 0 to -1) be such a bad thing? He still has b13 to go to and would still be in the exact same "read" situation he is in now, but there is less brainlessness.

Characters like Takeda and Kitana (and I guarantee others) have 1 frame to "trade" with the next incoming b1. Kitana's standing and crouching 1 is 8f and I've not been able to beat this 9f move clean once in hundreds of attempts, I only trade. The only other options are punishable armor, backdash which loses to b13 and is difficult to time correctly, or block breaker and you lose all of your resources.
i love how everyone in this thread told me to just "hold that" when it comes to a braindead move that i only have a few options for, its okay though TYM never change.
 
I played Kano MK9, he was not that good as you all know, now in this version I do not play him, and the dude got some cheap stuff....lol...video games have had problems with being broken since day one. When I was watching NLBC last night I was just shaking my head...at how easy Kano can beat Takeda by just doing the same move over and over....
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
It's not as good as Zyphox is over reacting too.
Lol you can't be serious about this statement.

For the record, Reptile's only answer to b1 on block without meter is reversal slide or dash, at least from what the frame data indicates. May I remind you that b132+4 exists, though, and b1's recovery is pretty OD. I'm realistically not reacting to that all the time. Backdashing isn't always an option if it doesn't cover enough ground fast enough (Reptile's comes to mind).

Just because it gets low profiled by some characters doesn't diminish its strengths. Also, Kano is way better than people want to make him out to be. Should just let Coach Steve steamroll people until everyone actually understands.