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How strictly should TO's enforce tournament rules? And Jim's version of events from Frosty Faustings

Saboteur-6

Saboteur-6

Filthy Casual
StevoSuprem0 said:
He's not talking about the TO, he's bringing up the mind game that it puts in the player who is supposed to either "man up" and play out the set anyway or "puss out" and take the set. There are enough jitters associated with tournament play to begin with, especially when you're just starting out. To be put in a situation where you have to make a decision like that on top of it all is horrible.
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Except NO ONE controls what you think, I'm sorry. I don't play fighting games competitively but I'm no stranger to competition and if you BLATANTLY break a rule to your benefit and fuck with my momentum then I'm taking that shit with a smile on my face. That's not being a pussy, that's not being a wuss, that's saying that "you gotta resort to bullshit to try and fuck with me huh? Alright, hold that penalty scumbag, let's go man." I can see how a more innocent penalty in a more neutral match could be "played through" but what PL DID AND THE WAY HE DID IT sounds extremely shady.

Also, when can we start having the discussion of a UNIFORM CHANGE in match sets from best of three to best of five? Why has that not happened?
 
Vagrant

Vagrant

Noob
Man I just dont care.

If my opponent pauses I just say fuck it and wait for him sort it out and we'll decide when to unpause and play. No one ever pauses on purpose and I just cant in good faith let someone spend money to enter a tournament and lose a match because they accidentally hit pause or their buttons were screwed.

Their fault?
yeah I guess.
Hang em for it?
Nah I just can't man. It's not even a question really.

Sirlin would be disappointed but sometimes its just not about winning at all costs for me. I don't ever want to beat someone because of non game related factors. I'm not condemning people that do. I completely understand it and its smart if your goal is to win at all costs. My brain just wont let me.
 
Skkra

Skkra

PSN: Skkra
Jim: extremely well written and well articulated. It's something that isn't really thought about enough.

1. I am definitely of the opinion that it should be a rock-solid rule that is enforced without question or bias by the TOs. That takes all guesswork and BS out of it.
2. For games like SF4, Marvel, etc, the stages don't matter. However, for games like Tekken or IGAU, where the stages could play a large role in the fight, I believe that you should choose your real characters, do the button check, then restart. No getting a new stage. As you mentioned, this prevents the option select of getting to repick a stage you don't like while making it look like a part of the button check.

Good writeup, sir.
 
Skkra

Skkra

PSN: Skkra
Eric Z19 said:
Question to other people: I don't follow any maintstream sports but I'm wondering now how similar situations are handled.
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"Delay of game" is the name of the penalty in professional sports. It's in all sports and there is always a punishment for it. As a prime example, there was a very key one in the Cowboys/Eagles game just last night.
 
Saboteur-6

Saboteur-6

Filthy Casual
Vagrant said:
Man I just dont care.

If my opponent pauses I just say fuck it and wait for him sort it out and we'll decide when to unpause and play. No one ever pauses on purpose and I just cant in good faith let someone spend money to enter a tournament and lose a match because they accidentally hit pause or their buttons were screwed.

Their fault?
yeah I guess.
Hang em for it?
Nah I just can't man. It's not even a question really.

Sirlin would be disappointed but sometimes its just not about winning at all costs for me. I don't ever want to beat someone because of non game related factors. I'm not condemning people that do. I completely understand it and its smart if your goal is to win at all costs. My brain just wont let me.
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Bro people that false start don't do it intentionally, people that jump offsides don't do it intentionally, people that violate a shot/play clock don't do it intentionally. Rules uphold the integrity of the game and ensure that the competition is respected at it's core. Is it a shitty way to lose? Absolutely, and yeah it's a shitty way to win. I'm guessing I'd err on the side of "let's play it out" if it was innocent. HOWEVER, PL intentionally paused the game to fix his rumble in a game he was losing. That's shady in my book.

You can't ask for a "do over" from the ref if that receiver that you were supposed to guard is dancing in the end zone because your shoe was untied.
 
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Vagrant

Vagrant

Noob
Saboteur-6 said:
Bro people that false start don't do it intentionally, people that jump offsides don't do it intentionally, people that violate a shot clock don't do it intentionally. Rules uphold the integrity of the game and ensure that the competition is respected at it's core. Is it a shitty way to lose? Absolutely, and yeah it's a shitty way to win. I'm guessing I'd err on the side of "let's play it out" if it was innocent. HOWEVER, PL intentionally paused the game to fix his rumble in a game he was losing. That's shady in my book.
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Dont get me wrong I understand the logic in taking the win and I don't look down on it. I would never hold it against someone if I accidentally paused and they took the match.

I just cant do it.
For whatever reason something in my brain just says "this is not an acceptable way to win for you to win, just play it out"
 
Saboteur-6

Saboteur-6

Filthy Casual
Vagrant said:
Dont get me wrong I understand the logic in taking the win and I don't look down on it. I would never hold it against someone if I accidentally paused and they took the match.

I just cant do it.
For whatever reason something in my brain just says "this is not an acceptable way to win for you to win, just play it out"
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Yeah I hear you. To me it's a matter of unintentional vs. deliberate. If you and I (or whoever) were playing in a tournament game and it was close to neutral and you paused I'd look at you and ask, "did you do that on purpose?" If you seemed weird about it or I had a weird vibe like you were being "less than truthful" I'd take the win. If however, you seemed genuine then I'd just play through.

That highlights one of the main points of the article though is that when left up to the players largely I'm assuming people don't "want to be dicks to their fellow friend/competitor" and that responsibility really needs to fall on an impartial mediator aka the TO. Ever played a pick up basketball game where the "other team calls fouls" versus a ref? Totally different experience. Either people will abuse the rules to their benefit (calling light fouls) or let fouls slide and just "let it play" (allowing for heavy fouls). Regardless, the game plays different than it would with a ref.

The other problem here now that I think about it, is that having a sliding scale of penalty consequences in something like a competitive video game isn't really possible. There's no room for "minor penalties" versus "flagrant penalties" because there's just so little that can be mechanically manipulated. In other words, accidental pauses get treated like intentional pauses when left to the TO which is why the TO is likely to ask the players competing since that's seemingly the only way to differentiate.
 
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B

BGCallisto

Noob
Perfect Legend said:
I like how now people are making excuses for me beating them and getting backed up/praised, but if I say something like how for example the stream monitor had lag because of the hook ups used to stream it and show it on 3 different tv's. Also how one of the floor tv's set up was laggy too. Oh no but if I say something I am complaining. But Jim and Max nope they aren't complaining they are being reasonable.
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To clarify something, all of those splits to the TVs happen from my computer's video card, not the console feed. The console goes into one lagless professional-grade splitter that every streamer ever uses, into a tournament standard Asus monitor. Lag was in your head.

Carry on with the regularly scheduled drama.
 
RM Truth

RM Truth

Unintentional Tier Whore Follow me @TruthRM
BGCallisto said:
To clarify something, all of those splits to the TVs happen from my computer's video card, not the console feed. The console goes into one lagless professional-grade splitter that every streamer ever uses, into a tournament standard Asus monitor. Lag was in your head.

Carry on with the regularly scheduled drama.
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TYM: We Know Drama
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
BGCallisto said:
To clarify something, all of those splits to the TVs happen from my computer's video card, not the console feed. The console goes into one lagless professional-grade splitter that every streamer ever uses, into a tournament standard Asus monitor. Lag was in your head.

Carry on with the regularly scheduled drama.
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Thanks for the awesome stream
 
TakeAChance

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
G4S Claude VonStroke said:
This is the first time I'm hearing that you have to button check with your intended character. I've never heard of that in any game and it would be unfair to expect someone outside of GGA to automatically know that rule, if it even was a rule at FF.
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That's because this is the first time it came to light. Like I said above, PL did nothing wrong as it was not a rule. It should be tho. It will lead to everyone "button checking" / stage scouting with a character just to re random.
 
RNLDRGN

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
I don't see what the question is here? You took the first round and he beat you after that. Sure it might have been "weird" and "thrown you off" when the pause happens--but you can't expect to be in an airtight vacuum free of distractions when you're playing in a tournament. I've lost matches b/c dudes behind me are screaming and getting hype. Shit happens. Take the match and move on.
 
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