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Breakthrough - Balanced RIP Kenshi. Why Balanced is Bottom 5 in MKX and it's a shame.

DET_BLAKEANATOR

DET_BLAKEANATOR

Noob
Derptile said:
Kinda hard to explain since on paper it doesn't look the best, but when you play him his space control with grab and push combined with his overheads(any character with a decent overhead is instantly not bad) make him a better character.

A shitty explanation I know but I've played hundreds of games against Kenshi and it goes Kenjutsu>=Possessed>>Balanced.
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I play kenshi and I think they all suck, I think possessed is the only decent one just because it's safe pressure. When I say "decent" that doesn't mean it's good. It just means I won't get punished every single time I touch kung lao or Cassie or reptile...... Or pretty much every single character in the game. Just my opinion of course
 
IrishMantis

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
No problem with these type of threads even though I hate the term bottom or top 5 as it can make a chat seem worst or better than they actually are

But I would like to hear what buffs you think he needs without making him MK9 Kenshi broke?

Is it the recovery frames that's hurting him? The lack of plus frames?

I love reading this stuff
 
Immortal

Immortal

Blind justice....
FireBreather said:
No problem with these type of threads even though I hate the term bottom or top 5 as it can make a chat seem worst or better than they actually are

But I would like to hear what buffs you think he needs without making him MK9 Kenshi broke?

Is it the recovery frames that's hurting him? The lack of plus frames?

I love reading this stuff
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People should wake up from the dream where MK 9 Kenshi would be broke in MK X.


For BALANCED changes to make him viable are pretty straight forward:

- TF should have at very worst around 20 recovery frames

- SC should be like -10 on block at worst, EX SC +2 (it leads to nothing and currently is -3 which is meh)

- EX RK which is his only special launcher should be +6 to +8 on block so you can have some sort of weak pressure after it like many better characters have (thou they get often 50/50 after it so this would be really nothing special but okay for a zoner).

- TKS should have less startup frames so you wont be able to run under it on reaction. Also it should be like +5 or something ON HIT (now its -1 LOL)


This would make Balanced viable but nowhere near broke.
 
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IrishMantis

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
Immortal said:
People should wake up from the dream where MK 9 Kenshi would be broke in MK X.


For BALANCED changes to make him viable are pretty straight forward:

- TF should have at very worst around 20 recovery frames

- SC should be like -10 on block at worst, EX SC +2 (it leads to nothing)

- EX RK which is his only special launcher should be +6 to +8 on block so you can have so some sort of weak pressure after it like many better characters

- TKS should have less startup frames so you wont be able to run under it on reaction. Also it should be like +5 or something ON HIT (now its -1 LOL)


This would made Balanced viable but nowhere near broke.
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Cheers dude

They all sound fair
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Immortal said:
People should wake up from the dream where MK 9 Kenshi would be broke in MK X.


For BALANCED changes to make him viable are pretty straight forward:

- TF should have at very worst around 20 recovery frames

- SC should be like -10 on block at worst, EX SC +2 (it leads to nothing and currently is -3 which is meh)

- EX RK which is his only special launcher should be +6 to +8 on block so you can have so some sort of weak pressure after it like many better characters

- TKS should have less startup frames so you wont be able to run under it on reaction. Also it should be like +5 or something ON HIT (now its -1 LOL)


This would make Balanced viable but nowhere near broke.
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This is actually generous compared to some of the foolishness in the game. You may be aiming too low lol.
 
Immortal

Immortal

Blind justice....
SaltShaker said:
This is actually generous compared to some of the foolishness in the game. You may be aiming too low lol.
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This is NRS we're talking about here. Im going to be happy if they give me what i wrote above (which is really nothing big) but it's more likely im gonna see something like this in the next patch notes:

- Quan Chi: added wake up armored move which is +10 on block, coz you know, we feel he isn't that good.
 
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Derptile

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
Immortal said:
People should wake up from the dream where MK 9 Kenshi would be broke in MK X.


For BALANCED changes to make him viable are pretty straight forward:

- TF should have at very worst around 20 recovery frames

- SC should be like -10 on block at worst, EX SC +2 (it leads to nothing and currently is -3 which is meh)

- EX RK which is his only special launcher should be +6 to +8 on block so you can have so some sort of weak pressure after it like many better characters have (thou they get often 50/50 after it so this would be really nothing special but okay for a zoner).

- TKS should have less startup frames so you wont be able to run under it on reaction. Also it should be like +5 or something ON HIT (now its -1 LOL)


This would make Balanced viable but nowhere near broke.
Click to expand...
Ex RK should not be plus, no armored launcher should be plus, also I would say TF should be more around -30 than -20 for recovery.

Otherwise those changes look fine, I would also give a slight boost to a few of his normals since they are pretty mediocre in Balanced, and possibly change SC(not sure what I'd change exactly but giving it more pushback or better frames would be good choices)
 
Immortal

Immortal

Blind justice....
Derptile said:
Ex RK should not be plus, no armored launcher should be plus, also I would say TF should be more around -30 than -20 for recovery.

Otherwise those changes look fine, I would also give a slight boost to a few of his normals since they are pretty mediocre in Balanced, and possibly change SC(not sure what I'd change exactly but giving it more pushback or better frames would be good choices)
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Since they're not gonna universally remove + on block EX (even armored) moves - then yes EX RK needs to be +6 to +8 on block. He needs to have an option to get out of pressure and do something.

TF at -30 would be still bad (it was -32 before stealth nerf so i tested this before), this means free pressure from 3/4 screen from anybody, and full combo punish from 3/4 to 1/2 screen from many characters. This is 9% hdk move which leads to nothing, risk / reward ratio cannot be that bad. 20 recovery frames at worst. Still gives you free pressure from 1/2 screen and even full combo punish from several characters (like Cassie).

I really thought out my suggestions.
 
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DET_BLAKEANATOR

DET_BLAKEANATOR

Noob
Immortal said:
People should wake up from the dream where MK 9 Kenshi would be broke in MK X.


For BALANCED changes to make him viable are pretty straight forward:

- TF should have at very worst around 20 recovery frames

- SC should be like -10 on block at worst, EX SC +2 (it leads to nothing and currently is -3 which is meh)

- EX RK which is his only special launcher should be +6 to +8 on block so you can have so some sort of weak pressure after it like many better characters have (thou they get often 50/50 after it so this would be really nothing special but okay for a zoner).

- TKS should have less startup frames so you wont be able to run under it on reaction. Also it should be like +5 or something ON HIT (now its -1 LOL)


This would make Balanced viable but nowhere near broke.
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This would be good but I feel they should literally just start over with this character, its just the same thing over and over and over and EX SC should have faster startup and go 3/4 screen
 
Evil_Riu48

Evil_Riu48

Noob
Immortal said:
People should wake up from the dream where MK 9 Kenshi would be broke in MK X.


For BALANCED changes to make him viable are pretty straight forward:

- TF should have at very worst around 20 recovery frames

- SC should be like -10 on block at worst, EX SC +2 (it leads to nothing and currently is -3 which is meh)

- EX RK which is his only special launcher should be +6 to +8 on block so you can have some sort of weak pressure after it like many better characters have (thou they get often 50/50 after it so this would be really nothing special but okay for a zoner).

- TKS should have less startup frames so you wont be able to run under it on reaction. Also it should be like +5 or something ON HIT (now its -1 LOL)


This would make Balanced viable but nowhere near broke.
Click to expand...
i am not sure if this was you trolling
 
Evil_Riu48

Evil_Riu48

Noob
Immortal said:
Elaborate.
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some of your suggestion were find but others are kind of "broken" like making ex Rk +6 on block :eek:

i agree that kenshi is one of the weakest characters as of now in the game but he is alse very tricky to buff. i am sure that nrs do not want him to be able to do what he was able to do in mk9 to like 80% of the cast.

there is a way to buff kenshi so that he is very very good without making him win every matchup 8-2 lol but i really don't think nrs would make that move to bad
 
STRYKIE

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Fun fact: For those complaining about moves that are both armored AND plus on block, there's actually one move in the entire game with that distinction....

Guess who it belongs to....

DarksydeDash said:
Do you have any idea how much characters in this game break armor like its nothing? Here's a hint; Cassie, Kung Jin, Tremor, Predator, Tanya, Raiden, Erron Black, Scorpion, Kitana, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, Sonya, Johnny, D'Vorah, Goro, Mileena, etc.
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Explain....

Once again. I am a Scorpion main, my main training partner offline has been a Kenshi main until VSFighting last month. I want some cold hard facts about these armor breaking moves that can only be abused against Kenshi.

Immortal said:
Since they're not gonna universally remove + on block EX (even armored) moves - then yes EX RK needs to be +6 to +8 on block. He needs to have an option to get out of pressure and do something.

TF at -30 would be still bad (it was -32 before stealth nerf so i tested this before), this means free pressure from 3/4 screen from anybody, and full combo punish from 3/4 to 1/2 screen from many characters. This is 9% hdk move which leads to nothing, risk / reward ratio cannot be that bad. 20 recovery frames at worst. Still gives you free pressure from 1/2 screen and even full combo punish from several characters (like Cassie).

I really thought out my suggestions.
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You want a 14 frame tracking HKD to have the recovery of a standing jab?

You want an armored STARTER to be advantage on block?!

Just to prevent being ran in on and punished by a stamina hungry character?

Come on man, some characters not only don't have a safe armored move, but don't have an armored starter at all in any variation.

With all due respect, these suggestions have not been thought through, I was the voice of reason of behind the problems with Kenshi's frames in May or so, but I really don't think it's surprising that NRS haven't gone through with these ideas.
 
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