About those option selects...

buyacushun said:

So anyone who voices a complaint can't be competitive? That's some awful logic.

Anyways, someone on here was asking about a OS compilation thread which i think would be really cool. Or at least one in each character's forums. If this becomes the meta might as well have a guide for it.

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Did I ever say or imply that? Don't mirror your assumptions onto me

TopTierHarley said:

Discuss all you want. Complainingso so it gets removed because you don't like something is what I have a problem with.

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I never go on rants about wanting my character buffed or another character nerfed etc. This is an issue where multiple characters are (not by intentional design) getting the ability to do 50/50s that launch with unsafe specials and have it be completely safe. Im sorry if you don't see an issue with that but 95% of this site feel the same way about this that I do according to the poll at the top of this page. This is not random complaining for the sake of complaining. People who are cool with this like you are in the overwhelming minority

I don't see the problem with option selects

if they have one you probably have one too, i can't think of someone who doesn't have at least 1 useful option select

Matix218 said:

I never go on rants about wanting my character buffed or another character nerfed etc. This is an issue where multiple characters are (not by intentional design) getting the ability to do 50/50s that launch with unsafe specials and have it be completely safe. Im sorry if you don't see an issue with that but 95% of this site feel the same way about this that I do according to the poll at the top of this page. This is not random complaining for the sake of complaining. People who are cool with this like you are in the overwhelming minority

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This poll is only those who voted, saying 95% of small sample size means nothing to me. You could easily play those characters yourself to have the same thing they have. Or find your own for your character.

BoromiRofGeo said:

can you teach me please? i mean it.

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Oh, my god. I read this as "can you touch me please? i mean it."

I'm sorry.

If I wanted to play street fighter I'd play street fighter. That's how I feel about it. Will it get patched probably not. Only way it changes is if the community bands together. Which will never happen. look at everyone who hates having to pay for dlc thats already on the disk. Everyone complains but ends up paying the extra 10-15 dollars. If everyone got together and started blowing that said video game company's social media pages saying "hey we're not buying it anymore." Then video game companies would stop selling dlc. It's the exact same scenario with option select. We've got to make our voices heard and doing it on a forum site that doesn't belong to warnerbros / nether realm won't get the job done. You've got to create an overwhelming tsunami of negative criticism that gets the attention of the masses. And we're not the masses.

TopTierHarley said:

Did I ever say or imply that? Don't mirror your assumptions onto me

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You're posts make it seem that way. I asked about the OS and you brush it off with "Adapt or Perish" and "That's what it means to be competitive." You make it seem as anyone who says that OS should be removed are also saying that they won't play and are not competitive. When actually the people against OS feel the game loses a competitive edge when you just make a huge factor to winning a guess where you had no risk and all the reward and not a single thought about it. Like someone made the game with a just do it button as the best way to win.

Realistically, these options selects will only ever been known and used by a very, very small percentage of the overall player base. Competitive players, for the most, or the top few online monsters who want to compete at high level. These option selects are very likely not known by, nor will ever be known by, the vast majority of the people who purchased and play this game. They will go their entire life never knowing what an option select is.

Now, consider the publisher standpoint. Clearly they are starting to commit to funding this game at a tournament level. But is it worth the money to fix all of the option selects? It all depends on how deep the root problems are embedded in the code. If it takes a few programmers X hours to address these bugs, and X equates to $6,000 billable hours, then yes, maybe they can patch them out. However, if the company does the math and realizes it's going to cost a ridiculous number of man-hours (and thus money) to address these issues - issues that only affect an inconsequential percentage of the playerbase - they may well not bother.

It all depends on how much they care about the public-facing competitive face of the game in addition to a fuckton of other issues, the least of which is how difficult these are to address in the code. If this is baked deep into the game engine core, the changes of it being overhauled are more unlikely.

Skkra said:

Realistically, these options selects will only ever been known and used by a very, very small percentage of the overall player base. Competitive players, for the most, or the top few online monsters who want to compete at high level. These option selects are very likely not known by, nor will ever be known by, the vast majority of the people who purchased and play this game. They will go their entire life never knowing what an option select is.

Now, consider the publisher standpoint. Clearly they are starting to commit to funding this game at a tournament level. But is it worth the money to fix all of the option selects? It all depends on how deep the root problems are embedded in the code. If it takes a few programmers X hours to address these bugs, and X equates to $6,000 billable hours, then yes, maybe they can patch them out. However, if the company does the math and realizes it's going to cost a ridiculous number of man-hours (and thus money) to address these issues - issues that only affect an inconsequential percentage of the playerbase - they may well not bother.

It all depends on how much they care about the public-facing competitive face of the game in addition to a fuckton of other issues, the least of which is how difficult these are to address in the code. If this is baked deep into the game engine core, the changes of it being overhauled are more unlikely.

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And that's why it'd be nice to get a little update. How it easy would it be to tell how much effort it's going to take? I'm not saying tell us "it takes too much effort so it won't be fixed." But maybe a "Upon inspection the problem is deeper than initially thought." Even if we have to deal with it, it still sucks we are left in the dark about the status of it

buyacushun said:

You're posts make it seem that way. I asked about the OS and you brush it off with "Adapt or Perish" and "That's what it means to be competitive." You make it seem as anyone who says that OS should be removed are also saying that they won't play and are not competitive. When actually the people against OS feel the game loses a competitive edge when you just make a huge factor to winning a guess where you had no risk and all the reward and not a single thought about it. Like someone made the game with a just do it button as the best way to win.

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Like I said, discuss all you want, but complaining because you want something you don't want to learn out of a game is dumb.

It's not ignorant to wish option selects aren't in the game. It's ignorant to think people shouldn't complain they should just tolerate anything that they're given and be happy with it.

I find it funny that almost everyone complaining don't compete and probably never will.

buyacushun said:

And that's why it'd be nice to get a little update. How it easy would it be to tell how much effort it's going to take? I'm not saying tell us "it takes too much effort so it won't be fixed." But maybe a "Upon inspection the problem is deeper than initially thought." Even if we have to deal with it, it still sucks we are left in the dark about the status of it

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Why are you all catergorizing OS as a problem? If it was something that needed to be "fixed" it would have.

Syzoth said:

It's not ignorant to wish option selects aren't in the game. It's ignorant to think people shouldn't complain they should just tolerate anything that they're given and be happy with it.

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TopTierHarley said:

Like I said, discuss all you want, but complaining because you want something you don't want to learn out of a game is dumb.

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buyacushun said:

And that's why it'd be nice to get a little update. How it easy would it be to tell how much effort it's going to take? I'm not saying tell us "it takes too much effort so it won't be fixed." But maybe a "Upon inspection the problem is deeper than initially thought." Even if we have to deal with it, it still sucks we are left in the dark about the status of it

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Understood on that point, and as a player, I know it's frustrating. But professionally, I'm a lead programmer and manage a team, so I totally understand.

Last year my CIO wanted to know about a timeline for eliminating some minor bugs in our software. It ended up taking over 3 weeks of man-hours simply to track down the source of the issue to be able to even give him some estimates. The bugs were so minor that the resultant cost was a complete waste.

I'm not saying that that IS the issue, just that people need to consider the business side of things: like it not, that's the reality.

TopTierHarley said:

Like I said, discuss all you want, but complaining because you want something you don't want to learn out of a game is dumb.

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Assuming those opposed against OS because they don't wanna learn is a pretty big assumption. And it makes you come off as being a asshole. That said you're the minority. A lot of people feel this way because it's never been in MK and their thoughts are along the lines of why change something that was never broken. OS Isnt something that drives a game's tournament life span it's the community. The only counter argument for this is that it adds a whole other level to the game. which is weak imo.

Da Tac0 said:

Assuming those opposed against OS because they don't wanna learn is a pretty big assumption. And it makes you come off as being a asshole. That said you're the minority. A lot of people feel this way because it's never been in MK and their thoughts are along the lines of why change something that was never broken. OS Isnt something that drives a game's tournament life span it's the community. The only counter argument for this is that it adds a whole other level to the game. which is weak imo.

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They were in MK9 and Injustice. Also thank you, I am enjoying my heel turn.

WORLD STAR

They are here and mostly likely not going anywhere. Would I have liked the game without them, for sure! I do not think most players are using them to the full extent of their viability as of yet. It will take a while to see how profound if any of a effect it will have in high lvl play.

If you plan to compete you should know them without a doubt if not you probably are not taking it very seriously.

With that said I do really hope NRS buffs defensive options across the board to help with relentless pressure some of the cast will be capable of as the game develops later down the road.

I'm not sure if this has been suggested or mentioned yet but here's a suggestion I have for removing them since it seems there's a majority vote to not keep them:

They could amend the code so that if a special move (or the input required for the option select) is entered and the move is not a special that uses another direction for tracking (like Possessed Kenshi's DB4) then it ignores any additional directions until the special move has completed. I'm not sure how easy that'd be to implement mind you because I can't see the code but hopefully that's a possible solution.

Baconlord said:

I find it funny that almost everyone complaining don't compete and probably never will.

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I would love to compete but I can't right now. I still enjoy playing this game and watching even better players playing it. OS affects these things in a negative way IMO.

TopTierHarley said:

Why are you all catergorizing OS as a problem? If it was something that needed to be "fixed" it would have.

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Because it takes away what I thought was a integral part to fighting games. The yomi, risk/reward, mind games that makes some really intense fun matches.

Baconlord said:

I find it funny that almost everyone complaining don't compete and probably never will.

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Honeybee won a major and he says they should go.

There have been a ton of polls and I think one had over 600 votes to remove OS. You really think none of those 600 people competes?

P.S. I compete offline and I think they should be removed too.

TopTierHarley said:

They were in MK9 and Injustice. Also thank you, I am enjoying my heel turn.

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Speaking strictly in terms of mk9 there were very few and far between.

GGA Dizzy said:

1. Ermac has great offensive option selects

2. Pretty much everyone agrees that option selects should go, in every thread and every post since the game came out.

3. Very few people are actually even learning the option selects because they are extremely lazy

4. Yes these type of option selects are in MK9 and INJ and people knew that but go try them, they are ridiculously hard to do, since the input system is different. MKX they are definitely doable in a tournament setting.

5. There exists defensive option selects as well that are mostly unrelated to the complaining in this thread, just wanted to bring it up

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I just figure I state this since Dizzy is right on all of these points but I do want to point out something about 3 and 4.

In terms of learning OSes, it will inevitably take some players time to get used to that concept. While previous NRS games did have them, they were never this noticeable or prominent. Also, perhaps some did not learn them in fear of them getting taken out. I feel NRS out of anyone should just state whether or not they're staying and just be as reasonable with the competitive community as possible, but at this point it's pretty much guaranteed they're staying unless some magic happens by the time they're done adding characters. This company couldn't fix the input bug in MK9, I do not see them taking out all OSes, and even then new ones would be found.

The issue of "Adapt, learn" etc... Is that while yes OSes are never intended, if they are too powerful or are too good, you will begin to notice it at top level play. I had never seen an OS make a character completely safe before (by that I mean fail-safe), until MKX came out and we all saw what The Thunder God had up his sleeve. That kind of thing would put a lot of players from other communities off from this game, and you guys kinda need the growth. You need some of these players to stay, or else your pots drastically decrease.

I said this about SF4: While it may have a ton of OSes, they don't ultimately lead to much and are not fail-safe. Even small things like crouch teching only gives you an extra frame to tech a grab. If you see someone mashing a low poke? It's likely due to them expecting a grab, so now you know what they're doing so what better time to do an overhead or counterpoke?. You do not want fail-safe option selects running amok. That, IMO would ruin the game.

RYX said:

I don't see the problem with option selects

if they have one you probably have one too, i can't think of someone who doesn't have at least 1 useful option select

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Shinnok I doubt has any legitimate ones that would be overall useful.