Discussion Why Alien Should Be Banned.

[BillStickers]

What @SonicFox5000 has done is a really interesting tactic where he has isolated each bug into multiple "single" issues, then claimed one after another that each one alone is not a big deal.

Unfortunately, entry levelers, ambulance chasers, and wifi apologists will eat this type of shit up and fail to understand that they've been played.

Think about all of these issues as a whole *on top of* Alien's already strong moveset.

What you end up with is a character that takes less damage overall (due to female hitbox), has attacks that have more range than the largest characters in the game, and now has an even stronger neutral game due to the fact that the opponent needs to be in point blank range to guarantee collisions (good luck trying to put this into practice with all of Alien's options!).

With so much money on the line, do you really think that Alien mains are giving you the full story? IMO they're gonna be laughing at you guys all the way to the bank.

 

[Pygmy_Potato]

He's definitely safe. 7% mix ups and he's punishable half of the time, needs meter to launch and is unsafe.

Dude he's the new Kobu Jutsu. Bro all my armors get baited when he's -15. THOSE MINUS FIFTEEN STAGGERS THO

Turn off the caps lock and chill Breh. Alien isn't getting banned, no need to scream and downplay.

 

[Tweedy]

Turn off the caps lock and chill Breh. Alien isn't getting banned, no need to scream and downplay.

Please tell me how i'm downplaying, because i'm not.

This community is a joke.

Is tail snag safe, are those staggers in Tarkatan not -15 that people complain about? Are any of these things untrue? No. So how am I downplaying.

 

[Pygmy_Potato]

Please tell me how i'm downplaying, because i'm not.

This community is a joke.

Is tail snag safe, are those staggers in Tarkatan not -15 that people complain about? Are any of these things untrue? No. So how am I downplaying.

Because you're freaking out and listing all the cons of your character?

 

[Tweedy]

People don't understand risk/reward when they don't play a character.

Unless you're landing B1, you're typically getting around 7-20% meterless damage with Alien and you're only safe if you're throwing out his 7% meterless flip, vs most of the cast anyways. If you go for his 7% low, his meterless spin, pounce, rekkas, literally anything that will get you anything, the character is unsafe. In order to launch, the character has to use meter and is still unsafe.

Characters like Piercing Mileena and A List Cage get 35% meterless, D'vorah, Cutthroat and Kung Jin have safe 50/50s. Alien is very strong in the neutral and has great armor. In those two categories he's maybe the best in the game. However, his neutral is not far ahead of Mileena and Cage's, if any better. D'vorah lacks armor but her neutral does not lack, Cutthroat has great armor but lacks... I don't know.

Alien's balance is his risk reward. Am I saying he's not top 5? No. Imo he's top 5.

As far as the bugs go, we have a character in Mileena who has basically a meterless wake up vs a lot of the cast, with her roll. How is that not a bannable offense, if these whiffing issues are not? Don't even say, "man you can D3 or D4 Mileena with those characters", because there's a lot of shit that can be done here to ensure that Jax, Triborg, or whoever, do not whiff.

The only real argument that's being made, when it comes down to it, is that people are defending Alien because of their own agenda. I personally am. When he released I put a lot of my lab and play time into him, and I was planning on using him at Combo Breaker. If he is banned then that's just a lot of wasted time. However, my agenda does not mean that i'm wrong, or that Sonicfox is wrong. Sonic probably doesn't have an agenda, though. He could just win with Cassie or whoever.

 

[Tweedy]

Because you're freaking out and listing all the cons of your character?

So are those cons not real?

Are you saying that by listing his cons, i'm saying that he doesn't have pros? Never said that.

Do you know that EX spin ends in an overhead?

 

[BigMacMcLovin]

I see videos of doing different characters moves at max range in the hope of tickling the tip of Alien's hurtbox but when Alien moves from crouch to stand his hurtbox moves slightly and the move whiffs.

It's not bannable. It should be fixed but it's not ban worthy.

 

[Pygmy_Potato]

So are those cons not real?

Are you saying that by listing his cons, i'm saying that he doesn't have pros? Never said that.

Do you know that EX spin ends in an overhead?

I did know that. I actually do quite well vs Alien and I don't think Alien should be banned. I just thought you were going overboard with the defense of Alien and tried to point it out in a humorous tone.

 

[Doombawkz]

He seems fine.
Jax's tiny overhead whiffs on him, but know whose doesn't?
F/T. And I'm just enough of an asshole to say that since my character doesn't have issues with it, it's probably fine.

 

[Rude]

So are those cons not real?

Are you saying that by listing his cons, i'm saying that he doesn't have pros? Never said that.

Do you know that EX spin ends in an overhead?

You're kinda off on a tangent, dude.

Alien has a lot of strengths to compensate for his weaknesses. The damage from flip isn't nearly as important as the knockdown he gets from it. In this game, scoring a knockdown and applying pressure is a pretty big deal

Also, with the exception of a few characters, flip is safe. So once you condition them to block the overhead, you start going low.

This is just base Alien stuff, I haven't even brought up her stacking acid damage in Acidic or the pseudo-unblockables of Konjurer.

Does Alien need to be banned? No.

Should NRS look at these glitches(and universal hitbox/hurtbox glitches) and the character in general? Definitely.

I don't think he needs to be gutted, but I don't think he's perfectly balanced right now, either.

 

[Pygmy_Potato]

So are those cons not real?

Are you saying that by listing his cons, i'm saying that he doesn't have pros? Never said that.

Do you know that EX spin ends in an overhead?

Video evidence that I know it ends in an overhead

 

[WiseM0nkey]

Pre-patch Kung Lao maybe 6-4 at most but Kung Lao depends heavily on other players mistake/triguarding so I don't think so...

Kung Lao punishes regular tail flip clean for 26% into a splat, meterless... so yeah it's a good MU for Lao, one of the few left

 

[Paul the Octopus]

Cassie Cage, Kung Lao, and Johnny Cage.

Would you say Liu also beats Alien? I haven't played it enough (and am probably not at the skill level to judge), but I feel like he at least goes even. He can punish flip with his 6 frame f1 into a full combo (hard but definitely doable with practice). Counterpoking with Liu's b12 shuts down Alien armoring at negative frames. He also zones Alien reasonably well.

 

[Tweedy]

Man people like Playing2win and Corrz are literally lying about Alien on twitter.

Sonic presents points and people respond with "you just want to use him".

Lying and vague points doesn't mean that you're just trying to get your way. Valid points do. What a community.

 

[Rude]

Man people like Playing2win and Corrz are literally lying about Alien on twitter.

Sonic presents points and people respond with "you just want to use him".

Lying and vague points doesn't mean that you're just trying to get your way. Valid points do. What a community.

Why do you care what people on Twitter think?

 

[Tweedy]

Why do you care what people on Twitter think?

Because there's a poll on there, trying to get Alien banned. I've been practicing Alien for two months now, with intention to play him at Combo Breaker.

A bunch of idiots who don't understand the character, and might not even go to the event, are going to ruin it for me.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

Man people like Playing2win and Corrz are literally lying about Alien on twitter.

Sonic presents points and people respond with "you just want to use him".

Lying and vague points doesn't mean that you're just trying to get your way. Valid points do. What a community.

I honestly don't think it's the community's fault. Every community has people who are capable of that.

It's the NRS balance process (both the poor initial balancing and then the band-aid rapid fire hot fixes) that perpetuate it. In SFV, when a character sucks, players switch (e.g., even Snakeyes - one of the biggest character loyalists - switched from Zangief), instead of whining about it for a year. When a character is strong, they lab them.

NRS games - my preference over Capcom games by the way - would be so much better if the balance process was more like Capcoms. Not just the lower patch frequency though - has to be better initial balance too (otherwise it'd be worse than what we have now, which is awful initial balancing which gets semi fixed by rapid fire hot fixes, with a lot of causalties and collateral damage in the form of unneeded buffs/nerfs to already strong/weak characters)..

 

[Vigilante24]

Lol "ruin it for me." Im out...

 

[Rude]

Because there's a poll on there, trying to get Alien banned. I've been practicing Alien for two months now, with intention to play him at Combo Breaker.

A bunch of idiots who don't understand the character, and might not even go to the event, are going to ruin it for me.

You're overreacting. First of all, simply because there is a poll doesn't mean anything will come of it.

Secondly, as someone who has been to a few tourneys, I can promise you the experience won't be ruined if by some blind miracle the character actually is banned. There is FAR more to the offline tourney experience than just what character you play.

Also, you seem to be personalizing the issue and making whether or not Alien stays about you, which isn't healthy. Whether or not he is legal has more to do with preserving the life of the game.

I don't think he needs to be banned, but he's not perfectly fine, either.

 

[TheGabStandard]

Because there's a poll on there, trying to get Alien banned. I've been practicing Alien for two months now, with intention to play him at Combo Breaker.

A bunch of idiots who don't understand the character, and might not even go to the event, are going to ruin it for me.

I would be really surprised if Alien got banned because of this.

 

[Tweedy]

Lol "ruin it for me." Im out...

You can be out all you want. It doesn't mean that i'm wrong. Alien is not better than Mileena or Cage, these issues are not Alien specific.

 

[Pan1cMode]

I don't see how this warrants a ban? He doesn't block infinite the cast, doesn't infinite the cast, overall his matchups aren't incredibly dominating...

Not saying he's a weak character or that some of this shit shouldn't be changed, but the criteria for banning a character is much higher than "best in the game" (which let's be serious is currently a toss up between alien, mileena and johnny). Banning a character requires something obviously broken that completely disrupts the style of the game (i.e. infinities, soft locks, invulnerable stalling, stupidly overpowering matchups [talking 8-2 the entire cast here btw]). Alien fits none of these categories. Yes he has some strong matchups and several hitbox quirks, but these don't (even cummulitively) qualify him for a ban.

Hell, even Kabal wasn't banned in MK9 and his matchup chart looked way more dominant than anything alien has.

Yes, these quirks should be fixed, yes alien is a stupidly good character, no alien should not be banned from tournament play. No one is saying that these quirks/glitches are ok or should be left as is, but they certainly don't warrant a ban.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

Alien is not gonna get banned.

i think ppl are complaining about him but for the wrong reasons...

 

[Pan1cMode]

Also LBSH, alien is not going to get banned. It's just not going to happen.

 

[Tweedy]

Lets look at facts.

Characters share these bugs.

Alien does not have safe launching 50/50s. Out of his 7% mix ups, only his overhead is safe vs most characters.

Tail snag does not launch, and it's not safe.

Blade spin and EX blade spin is not a mix up.

We're talking about qualifying for a 200k tournament. People are trying to get him banned when they don't understand him at all. Tell me how this isn't a joke.