Discussion Why Alien Should Be Banned.

[Perdition]

NRS just needs to fix the Alien problem. It's not good for the game when these obviously overpowered characters are winning every tournament. Not to take away from the great players who use Alien, it is just a testament of how he needs to be toned down when the elites are taking all the tournaments with the same character, like prepatch Tanya.

 

[Gofer_MK_]

F it, nerf Up Rock some moar!!

 

[navaroNe]

Lets look at facts.

Characters share these bugs.

Alien does not have safe launching 50/50s. Out of his 7% mix ups, only his overhead is safe vs most characters.

Tail snag does not launch, and it's not safe.

Blade spin and EX blade spin is not a mix up.

We're talking about qualifying for a 200k tournament. People are trying to get him banned when they don't understand him at all. Tell me how this isn't a joke.

dude, let it go you're just making yourself look worse. he SHOULDN'T have safe launching 50/50's, no character should

 

[Tweedy]

You're overreacting. First of all, simply because there is a poll doesn't mean anything will come of it.

Secondly, as someone who has been to a few tourneys, I can promise you the experience won't be ruined if by some blind miracle the character actually is banned. There is FAR more to the offline tourney experience than just what character you play.

Also, you seem to be personalizing the issue and making whether or not Alien stays about you, which isn't healthy. Whether or not he is legal has more to do with preserving the life of the game.

I don't think he needs to be banned, but he's not perfectly fine, either.

I'm going to the tournament to do well. If the character that I've put a lot of time into is banned, then that will just ruin it for me.

Whether i'm making it about me or not, I've posted valid points. People are just lying and presenting vague points like "you just want Alien to stay because you use him". When it comes to legit points about his tools, his bugs, Sonic and I have rekt everyone free. People aren't even presenting real points.

I never said that he's perfectly fine. I have him in my top 5 and could see an argument for him being the best.

The poll and people constantly messaging me after matches about Alien(people from here, not like ranked or anythng), this thread, and everything else, makes me feel isolated from the rest of the community, even though i'm playing a character that is just as good if not a little better than their's. All because they don't know the character. If the poll doesn't work out for them, this propaganda still sucks and makes me dislike this community.

Some dude said I should uninstall my game on here because I said that Alien is unsafe, when he said that Alien is too safe. Alien is factually one of the more unsafe characters in the game, yet i'm the bad guy for posting what is correct, without insults? Jesus.

The reason only few top players post on here, is evident now. A bunch of you(not talking to you, Rude) make a bunch of claims when you know nothing about the character.

We're talking about a qualifier for a 200k tournament. Leave your casual opinion to yourself, people.

 

[Ze Dingo]

Fix? Yup. Universally, not just Alien.

Ban? Nah...

But nerf Triborg, just in case...

 

[Tweedy]

dude, let it go you're just making yourself look worse. he SHOULDN'T have safe launching 50/50's, no character should

I'll probably get banned if I say what I want to say about this post.

He doesn't have safe launching 50/50s. He needs meter to launch and is still unsafe. I mean...... What?

 

[Tweedy]

When I say something like "he needs meter to launch and is still unsafe", people start saying shit like "dude you don't need that to be good".

I NEVER SAID HE WASNT GOOD

But being a top 5 character isn't worth a ban. Not even if he's #1. There are other characters that have the same bugs and get full combos when they happen, Alien just blocks.

 

[Tweedy]

Alien's not even as bad as these other hitboxes. Sub Zero can combo him, Kung Jin's upkick doesn't whiff with certain strings, like it does on real female hitboxes.

He's basically got a watered down female hitbox, and we're banning him over that!?

!?!?!?!?!?

 

[navaroNe]

I'll probably get banned if I say what I want to say about this post.

He doesn't have safe launching 50/50s. He needs meter to launch and is still unsafe. I mean...... What?

you misunderstood me I believe. I was saying he doesn't have them and he shouldn't have them.

 

[Tweedy]

you misunderstood me I believe. I was saying he doesn't have them and he shouldn't have them.

Where did I say that he should have them? Please tell me. Another fake argument that makes no sense.


Fact is that characters do have them, so you can't act like Alien is just automatically the best, when other characters are better than him at some things. No one weighs anything, they just lose to lack of MU knowledge, see a bug or two, and make a poll about how he should be banned at a 200k qualifier.

Fucking joke.

 

[navaroNe]

Where did I say that he should have them? Please tell me. Another fake argument that makes no sense.


Fact is that characters do have them, so you can't act like Alien is just automatically the best, when other characters are better than him at some things. No one weighs anything, they just lose to lack of MU knowledge, see a bug or two, and make a poll about how he should be banned at a 200k qualifier.

Fucking joke.

wtf man you need to up your reading comprehension lol. You said let's look at the facts and listed : Alien doesn't have safe launching 50/50's . I followed up by saying that no character should have safe launching 50/50's , let alone him.

 

[Tweedy]

wtf man you need to up your reading comprehension lol. You said let's look at the facts and listed : Alien doesn't have safe launching 50/50's . I followed up by saying that no character should have safe launching 50/50's , let alone him.

So how is my reading comprehension bad?

If what you're saying is how you feel, then why aren't you in a "ban D'vorah", or "ban Cutthroat" thread.

 

[navaroNe]

because you're getting super defensive over me questioning why that was really even listed in your facts list there when if you look at the game as a whole is a very rare thing to have . I absolutely don't agree with D'vorah or Kano having them, but just because they have them doesn't mean you should hold every character to that standard.

 

[Rude]

When I say something like "he needs meter to launch and is still unsafe", people start saying shit like "dude you don't need that to be good".

I NEVER SAID HE WASNT GOOD

But being a top 5 character isn't worth a ban. Not even if he's #1. There are other characters that have the same bugs and get full combos when they happen, Alien just blocks.

First of all, the opinion of a bunch of randoms that will never attend a tournament don't matter. Ignore them. Now I'm aware that you use Kotal as an alt in ESL, did that ruin your ESL experience? Most likely not. So there's no reason you couldn't use that. Also, there is more to enjoy about the tournament experience besides what happens in pools.

Secondly, people DO complain about A-List, Cutthroat, Piercing, etc. No one is saying they're any better. Pygmy Potato, Panic Mode, myself, all of us have said we don't want to see Alien banned. Its extremely unlikely that it will happen.

Third, the problem I have is that you're only talking about the character's weaknesses and ignoring his strengths, which are apart of the conversation. You're upplaying his weaknesses and downplaying his strengths. He's definitely not the most unsafe character in the game.

Your character has an 11 frame advancing mid that leads to mix-ups and 50/50s. Flip may be low damage, but it leads to a knockdown which allows you to move in for more pressure or bait a wake up and punish. A tool doesn't have to lead to big damage to be very good.

Consider that he has a nearly half-screen low that's only -9 on block that starts in 18 frames. Now the TYM pundits will tell you that they react to 18 frame moves 10/10 times, but they're full of shit. The important part is that he can play his game at a range most characters can't. Once you establish that meta, more of your options open up.

This is all without talking about what he gets in his different variations. The point is that if you want to talk about a character, you need to talk about all of his tools, not just his weaknesses.

To reiterate, I don't think he needs to be banned but let's not pretend he's any less powerful than Kano, Mileena, Cage, etc. He's unquestionably top 5, possibly anywhere between 1-3.

 

[Tweedy]

because you're getting super defensive over me questioning why that was really even listed in your facts list there when if you look at the game as a whole is a very rare thing to have . I absolutely don't agree with D'vorah or Kano having them, but just because they have them doesn't mean you should hold every character to that standard.

Yes you should, when debating whether or not they're the best character in the game.

Mileena and Cage have comparable neutrals and armor to Alien, with 35% meterless damage.

D'vorah and Kano have comparable neutrals to Alien. One has bad armor and one is super meter dependant. Both have safe 50/50s.

Alien has poor meterless damage and is unsafe unless he's going for all of his 7% mix ups besides one. I feel like people look at his neutral, his armor, and then see his mix ups, and don't look any further. What balances Alien and keeps him from being auto god tier omg elite, is his risk/reward. You can't just say "well his risk/reward is fine, he doesn't need great risk/reward", when characters do have super good risk/reward. It literally being in the game is what gives it relevancy. You see what I mean? You can't just dismiss something as not needed and not weigh it, when characters that rival him have it. That's would be like me saying that you should rely on pokes and that armor isn't a huge deal, so D'vorah's lack of armor doesn't really matter. Yes it does, because characters like Alien and Cage have super good armor. You have to weigh that.

I'd also like to note that anyone who thinks that B2 whiffing makes Alien beat Jax, is nutty. Jax can just downward superman. It's faster, and now that B2 is unsafe, his risk/reward is not harmed. Jax can also punish regular flip without meter.

Also, good luck making that whiff in a real match. I'll laugh when you do it wrong and he bops you for a full combo. It's better to just block and punish it lol.

Remember, not arguing that Alien is not good. I think he's top 5 and could see him at #1. I'm arguing against him being banned lololol.

 

[Prinz]

Triborg has mids? #nerfTriborg

 

[Tweedy]

First of all, the opinion of a bunch of randoms that will never attend a tournament don't matter. Ignore them. Now I'm aware that you use Kotal as an alt in ESL, did that ruin your ESL experience? Most likely not. So there's no reason you couldn't use that. Also, there is more to enjoy about the tournament experience besides what happens in pools.

Secondly, people DO complain about A-List, Cutthroat, Piercing, etc. No one is saying they're any better. Pygmy Potato, Panic Mode, myself, all of us have said we don't want to see Alien banned. Its extremely unlikely that it will happen.

Third, the problem I have is that you're only talking about the character's weaknesses and ignoring his strengths, which are apart of the conversation. You're upplaying his weaknesses and downplaying his strengths. He's definitely not the most unsafe character in the game.

Your character has an 11 frame advancing mid that leads to mix-ups and 50/50s. Flip may be low damage, but it leads to a knockdown which allows you to move in for more pressure or bait a wake up and punish. A tool doesn't have to lead to big damage to be very good.

Consider that he has a nearly half-screen low that's only -9 on block that starts in 18 frames. Now the TYM pundits will tell you that they react to 18 frame moves 10/10 times, but they're full of shit. The important part is that he can play his game at a range most characters can't. Once you establish that meta, more of your options open up.

This is all without talking about what he gets in his different variations. The point is that if you want to talk about a character, you need to talk about all of his tools, not just his weaknesses.

To reiterate, I don't think he needs to be banned but let's not pretend he's any less powerful than Kano, Mileena, Cage, etc. He's unquestionably top 5, possibly anywhere between 1-3.

I haven't downplayed his strengths at all. You're literally making that up. I've said that he's probably top 5 and could be #1.

I'm just arguing against him being "needs to be banned" tier.

 

[Rude]

I haven't downplayed his strengths at all. You're literally making that up. I've said that he's probably top 5 and could be #1.

I'm just arguing against him being "needs to be banned" tier.

You spent several replies only talking about his weaknesses and mentioning nothing about his strengths. How is that not downplay?

Example:

Lets look at facts.

Characters share these bugs.

Alien does not have safe launching 50/50s. Out of his 7% mix ups, only his overhead is safe vs most characters.

Tail snag does not launch, and it's not safe.

Blade spin and EX blade spin is not a mix up.

We're talking about qualifying for a 200k tournament. People are trying to get him banned when they don't understand him at all. Tell me how this isn't a joke.

 

[Rude]

I haven't downplayed his strengths at all. You're literally making that up. I've said that he's probably top 5 and could be #1.

I'm just arguing against him being "needs to be banned" tier.

Also: He's not going to get banned. You're in a panic over something that won't happen.

 

[Tweedy]

I didn't mention his strengths, because they aren't an issue, I never denied them, and I admitted that he's one of the best characters.

 

[juicepouch]

I hope he gets banned so tweedy has more reason to pop off

 

[Rude]

I didn't mention his strengths, because they aren't an issue, I never denied them, and I admitted that he's one of the best characters.

I'll put it to you like this:

In Injustice, Zod could completely shut down Lex Luthor's advancing movement with perfect iaZodballs.

Was he banned? No.

Kabal had a block infinite on a couple characters in MK9 (not many, I think Sheeva and a few others).

Was he banned? No.

Alien isn't going to get banned. You're overreacting to something that isn't going to happen.

 

[Tweedy]

I'll put it to you like this:

In Injustice, Zod could completely shut down Lex Luthor's advancing movement with perfect iaZodballs.

Was he banned? No.

Kabal had a block infinite on a couple characters in MK9 (not many, I think Sheeva and a few others).

Was he banned? No.

Alien isn't going to get banned. You're overreacting to something that isn't going to happen.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

dragons reading this like

I'm talking of dragon

 

[juicepouch]

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

lol get rekt @Rude