Doombawkz
Trust me, I'm a doctor
So... what?So you're gonna pretend Kitana doesn't have great pressure and an armored launcher? K dog.
A top 10 zoner manages it, why can't a top 3 zoner?
So... what?So you're gonna pretend Kitana doesn't have great pressure and an armored launcher? K dog.
There isn't a "one frame to unblock", reversals just happen to discount one frame of blockstun. That's probably what you're thinking of. If it's trading with another 6F D1 then you're not doing it fast enough.So does it not take a frame to unblock?
F212 is -1 and I'm getting it to trade w 6 frame d1 so what exactly are you talking about?
You're fucking delusional.Yes he does because being a top 3 zoner in MKX might as well be the equivalent of a mid tier rushdown character, which would be fine if the character had a good wakeup, but he doesn't, so not only does he need great zoning but he needs great pressure too. And it is not a 50/50 since there's no overhead mixup.
It costs 3 bars of meter for one, so it is fair. Blood god gets huge damage too but he doesnt have to play some counter poking game to maybe get it, and many people argue he still needs help. Most games you won't get the opportunity to use the 3 bar 90% combos in the corner anyway, so in order for the chip spell to have a viable use mid screen he has to sacrifice 12-15% damage to activate it after a trance, a full screen hard knockdown and a guaranteed safe armor spell setup. With this nerf, why the fuck would anyone sacrifice all of that for 5-10% guaranteed extra damage and a small chance to get 10% more in case your opponent is dumb enough to not simply back dash out of the chip spell as soon as the first EX rune leaves Quan minus 1? On top of that, they could even grab you or hit you with an overhead while you're expecting to block their low poke, that's WAY too much risk for too little reward. Do you even know anything about this character?Why does sorcerer need to kill you on one touch in the corner. And why can't you use the chip hex, end a block string with mb rune, block a counter poke, and retaliate with a block string. God forbid you have to make a read instead of just killing your opponent with chip.
I'm not understanding your logic. U know chip trap has guaranteed true block string set ups that take like 90% of your life (given u have 3 meters). -1 rune is fine. You have less options now, but its a nerf.. That's the point.-1 is not fine. Sorcerer needs the EX rune to be plus 14 for the rune trap, no more no less. This doesn't even hurt Summoner as much as the other 2 variations because he doesn't even need meter to make his 50/50s plus. This nerf is too much compared to 90% of the characters in this game. Now the only useful spell Sorcerer has is the armor spell, which might as well be the ice clone except you can't get it out safely without a knockdown and he doesn't have ANY good wakeups unlike Sub Zero.
Ah I'm mistaken then.There isn't a "one frame to unblock", reversals just happen to discount one frame of blockstun. That's probably what you're thinking of. If it's trading with another 6F D1 then you're not doing it fast enough.
Also can we stop pretending Quan's D1 has the same properties as Kotal's? Thee only reason he was given a 6F D1 was as a last resort defensive option outside of Warlock. Nothing is guaranteed after it on hit. And even then it still helps Warlock the most since there's since the armored counterpoking option if they were planning to disrespect the lack of guaranteed options.
Quan players dont understand the concept of counter poking, spacing, or anything other than making u guess over and over again. -1 imo doesnt seem bad at all. A lot of plus moves/strings could use a tone down imo. But quan players dont really understand that. Much easier to complain.No it really , really isn't.There is no way that you can compare a blockstring ending in +2 , to a 50/50 mix-up that grants another mix-up on block and a combo on hit , that loops back into that same mix-up. Frankly I don't even know why it was given to him in the first place . Just repeating that sentence in my head gives me a headache. It's even more shocking to me that you're trying to defend this as if he needs it.
It costs meter to make it plus and if the opponent has a bar of meter they can option select armor through the overhead. The only problem with it is that you don't have to spend meter for the second mixup, but that could simply be adjusted by decreasing the cancel advantage on the overhead option.No it really , really isn't.There is no way that you can compare a blockstring ending in +2 , to a 50/50 mix-up that grants another mix-up on block and a combo on hit , that loops back into that same mix-up. Frankly I don't even know why it was given to him in the first place . Just repeating that sentence in my head gives me a headache. It's even more shocking to me that you're trying to defend this as if he needs it.
It really is, because it's not just one block string. It's three, ended in a multi-hitting special, followed by a normal that breaks armor.No it really , really isn't.There is no way that you can compare a blockstring ending in +2 , to a 50/50 mix-up that grants another mix-up on block and a combo on hit , that loops back into that same mix-up. Frankly I don't even know why it was given to him in the first place . Just repeating that sentence in my head gives me a headache. It's even more shocking to me that you're trying to defend this as if he needs it.
Because he does not have any viable armor. I'm telling you if he loses his advantage off the EX rune he will be garbage. You cannot survive solely off zoning in MKX. Kitana has great zoning, great pressure, great wakeups, and the most viable X ray in the game yet many people argue she still needs buffs.So... what?
A top 10 zoner manages it, why can't a top 3 zoner?
You and I have very different definitions of what the word "needs" means. And don't even try to compare Quan to blood god. Blood god gets his damage after setting up a totem and making a hard read in neutral. Quan gets it after landing a plus on block 50/50 in the corner. And all that shit about eating an overhead in anticipation of a low poke is exactly what the counter poking game is. You do realize you could do a s1 and blow his ass up for going for the overhead. Please learn the basics of the meta before you go around complaining about balance.It costs 3 bars of meter for one, so it is fair. Blood god gets huge damage too but he doesnt have to play some counter poking game to maybe get it, and many people argue he still needs help. Most games you won't get the opportunity to use the 3 bar 90% combos in the corner anyway, so in order for the chip spell to have a viable use mid screen he has to sacrifice 12-15% damage to activate after a trance, a full screen hard knockdown and a guaranteed safe armor spell setup. With this nerf, why the fuck would sacrifice all of that for 5-10% guaranteed extra damage and a small chance to get 10% more in case your opponent is dumb enough to not simply back dash out of the chip spell as soon as the first EX rune leaves Quan minus 1. On top of that, they could even grab you or hit you with an overhead while you're expecting to block their low poke, that's WAY too much too much risk for too little reward. Do you even know anything about this character?
Quan chi has the best back backdash , a 6 frame poke , a 5 njp and the best zoning im the entire game hands down. Not only does he not neee an armoured special , he has better defensive options than half the cast.Because he does not have any viable armor. I'm telling you if he loses his advantage off the EX rune he will be garbage. You cannot survive solely off zoning in MKX. Kitana has great zoning, great pressure, great wakeups, and the most viable X ray in the game yet many people argue she still needs buffs.
Stop acting like you can't backdash f2 and b2 after mb flying kick.It really is, because it's not just one block string. It's three, ended in a multi-hitting special, followed by a normal that breaks armor.
That's nine blocked hits you have to hold before counting hits of the bicycle kick. All of that is chip and corner carry. During the bicycle kicks he rebuilds the stamina. So if you armor the b1 string breaks it, so if you continue to block knowing this, he f213s again and starts the pressure loop all over again.
Consider: You could armor and backdash b32 into MB Rune, and armor or backdash after MB Rune if you read b2.
Whereas some character's best hope was to trade with Kang if their poke wasn't fast enough or have their armor broken.
lol child, read my post again, I'm telling you it would not be worth the risk to use the chip spell midscreen because it would always be smarter to full combo your opponent into a safe armor spell setup. The chip spell would only ever be useful to close out rounds with 1 bar in the corner. That would be its one and only viable use after this nerf. What you're saying would make sense if there wasn't a much, much better option to go for instead of the chip spell.You and I have very different definitions of what the word "needs" means. And don't even try to compare Quan to blood god. Blood god gets his damage after setting up a totem and making a hard read in neutral. Quan gets it after landing a plus on block 50/50 in the corner. And all that shit about eating an overhead in anticipation of a low poke is exactly what the counter poking game is. You do realize you could do a s1 and blow his ass up for going for the overhead. Please learn the basics of the meta before you go around complaining about balance.
Doesnt mean shit because none of that is as valuable for defense as a wakeup is. As a Summoner player once you get knocked down versus a pressure character you are at a huge disadvantage. None of those things help that. The 6f d1 is plus 3 on hit and full combo punishable on block. Stop.Quan chi has the best back backdash , a 6 frame poke , a 5 njp and the best zoning im the entire game hands down. Not only does he not neee an armoured special , he has better defensive options than half the cast.
The just use the armor spell it's still an amazing tool that more then keeps him viable. And isn't ex skull +16 on block? Why can't you use that for the hex spell instead of rune.lol child, read my post again, I'm telling you it would not be worth the risk to use the chip spell midscreen because it would always be smarter to full combo your opponent into a safe armor spell setup. The chip spell would only ever be useful to close out rounds in the corner. That would be its one and only viable use after this nerf. What you're saying would make sense if there wasn't a much, much better option to go for instead of the chip spell.
Quan does have a block button and access to delayed wake ups and tech rolls like everyone else. If you think armor on wake up is the only option for any given scenario like youre making it out to be then I dont know what to tell you. Shit, Id take a top 3 backdash thats invincible on wake up over having to spend meter on armor any dayDoesnt mean shit because none of that is as valuable for defense as a wakeup is. As a Summoner player once you get knocked down versus a pressure character you are at a huge disadvantage. None of those things help that. The 6f d1 is plus 3 on hit and full combo punishable on block. Stop.
What are her great wake-ups... An unsafe DP annnd... ..... ..... ......... ........................Because he does not have any viable armor. I'm telling you if he loses his advantage off the EX rune he will be garbage. You cannot survive solely off zoning in MKX. Kitana has great zoning, great pressure, great wakeups, and the most viable X ray in the game yet many people argue she still needs buffs.
Backdashing is about as valuable as anything since most pressure breaks armor anyhow. Anyone knocked down by a pressure characters is at a huge disadvantage.Doesnt mean shit because none of that is as valuable for defense as a wakeup is. As a Summoner player once you get knocked down versus a pressure character you are at a huge disadvantage. None of those things help that. The 6f d1 is plus 3 on hit and full combo punishable on block. Stop.
She has an armored anti airing launcher and a mid hitting armored reversal. She has good stagger strings and her EX fan on block for pressure on top of her float game. Kitana's zoning is great relative to most other characters in the game. Only characters I can think of who benefit more from zoning than her are HQT, Sorcerer and Summoner Quan.What are her great wake-ups... An unsafe DP annnd... ..... ..... ......... ........................
Also great pressure being... I guess floats? I think...
Hey X-ray is okay I guess.
Her zoning isn't "great" so much as... painfully average.
So yeah.
Backdashing is about as valuable as anything since most pressure breaks armor anyhow. Anyone knocked down by a pressure characters is at a huge disadvantage.
I mean shit Ferra/Torr doesn't even get access to half of his moves on wake-up, you don't see us complaining.
Straw man fallacy, I am not making it out to be that way. I'm stating the fact that having a good armored move is extremely valuable for defense.Quan does have a block button and access to delayed wake ups and tech rolls like everyone else. If you think armor on wake up is the only option for any given scenario like youre making it out to be then I dont know what to tell you. Shit, Id take a top 3 backdash thats invincible on wake up over having to spend meter on armor any day
So an unsafe DP and an unsafe parry? Her pressure isn't as good as Quan's meterless pressure is. Her zoning is great relative to characters who don't have any tools.She has an armored anti airing launcher and a mid hitting armored reversal. She has good stagger strings and her EX fan on block for pressure on top of her float game. Kitana's zoning is great relative to most other characters in the game. Only characters I can think of who benefit more from zoning than her are HQT, Sorcerer and Summoner Quan.