Question - Quan Chi Small Quan Buffs

[Mykal NS]

B1 changes I agree with, would definitely be a better neutral / punish tool. Making b32 safe is up in the air, if that's a thing then MB Rune need the gap no matter what. Sky drop definitely needs a new hitbox Bc I can just NJP when I read it lol. Universal EX Scoop? Maaaan you have no idea what that would look like on Summoner and no one wants to see it, trust me. You'll get Quan nerfed 10x harder with that. I also agree with the d1 being more adv on hit Bc 3f is ass, the same as Kitana 9f -9 on block d1 smh

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

If he needs a better punish tool then his standing 1 should have better range (match Kitana's s1 for example). You are obviously trying to give quan a broken neutral game with 11f mid and the threat of 50/50 anywhere, but you're pretending to be innocent by saying "he just needs a better punish tool, let's make B1 11f mid"

 

[Kinetic Predator]

I am still amazed that the thread is called "Small Quan buffs"

Yeah man you're right I should've said that Quan should receive his old self back with Laos ex spin lmao these changes are not crazy everyone just hates this fucking char.

 

[Kinetic Predator]

It is already a low that launches. If you make his already easily hit confirmed b324 string safe on b32, you are actually making his pressure almost as strong as it was before, possibly stronger. Not all 50/50s have to be safe. Risk/Reward system.


Quan's B1 has amazing range. B2 = long range, B1/D4 = mid range, D3/B3/1/2 = close range. You need to work with Quan's tools, not have Quan's design work for your desired gameplay.

You listed all rushdown characters to try and make an argument for why a space control/heavy zoning character like Quan should get a wakeup. If they're getting in aren't you not even doing your job of keeping them out?
Name all of the characters who have around +15 after a d1, while having the speed of Quan's d1.

This up playing is a fucking disgrace

 

[Kinetic Predator]

Probably already said it earlier in the thread, but Quan is 100000% where he should be right now. Every variation serves its purposes and functions well as an upper mid character right now imo. Yes you have to make some more educated reads than you used to, but that's fighting games so let's not complain about that.

One tool that I don't see anybody mention (which gets me tons of mileage) is his ridiculous backdash. If someone's running at you, backdash can avoid some of the better run in advancing mids in the game and allows you to whiff punish. Yes it's a read, as always, but it's a tool that complements some of his less "one size fits all" neutral buttons to make it all work together nicely.

LOL LEMME MOP A LIST WITH THIS BACKDASH HOLD UP HOLD MY BEER

 

[Tweedy]

If you keep playing this game and gain more knowledge, you'll really laugh at yourself for wanting one of Quan's 50/50s to be completely safe without meter.

Wanting to have an 11 frame mid is cool. Can the characters I use with an 11 frame mid get Quan's jump 1 and NJP? No, okay, that's balance.

The EX scoop, I mean, people have already said their piece. We all know why that's probably not a good idea for balance.

The D1 hit advantage buff is fine I think.

 

[Kinetic Predator]

If you keep playing this game and gain more knowledge, you'll really laugh at yourself for wanting one of Quan's 50/50s to be completely safe without meter.

Wanting to have an 11 frame mid is cool. Can the characters I use with an 11 frame mid get Quan's jump 1 and NJP? No, okay, that's balance.

The EX scoop, I mean, people have already said their piece. We all know why that's probably not a good idea for balance.

The D1 hit advantage buff is fine I think.

Kotal b1...and untripguardable j1....

 

[MsMiharo]

Yeah man you're right I should've said that Quan should receive his old self back with Laos ex spin lmao these changes are not crazy everyone just hates this fucking char.

I like Quan though. One of my favourite characters. These changes are crazy though

 

[Kinetic Predator]

I like Quan though. One of my favourite characters. These changes are crazy though

Name what's crazy besides UNI scoop

 

[Tweedy]

Kotal b1...and untripguardable j1....

You're here asking for safe 50/50s, while Kotal does 50/50s that are borderline fuzzy guardable, require meter to be attempted, and are always unsafe. If Kotal doesn't have meter then he's doing 9% mix ups that are also unsafe vs 95% of the cast. He also is only winning when he's in.

If Kotal didn't have B1, jump 1(that is worse than Quan's after the latest update), and 6 frame pokes, he'd be easily the worst character in the game.

If you played him you'd make this same thread asking for safe low sword and safe EX overhead. PLEASE

 

[MsMiharo]

Name what's crazy besides UNI scoop

Faster b1, safe low meterless starter, safe bet call outside of combo.

 

[ienjoywinning]

Faster b1, safe low meterless starter, safe bet call outside of combo.

Whats wrong with a faster b1? Thats perfectly fine

 

[BlackMambaJohn]

Yes, because his offense is ridiculous. And EX sky drop actually is a decently useful wake up now. Not particularly good but it's a threat now at least.

Nooooooo not at all that shit still sucks

He's fine the way he is right now. He's always sucked at getting out of the corner, it's one of his few weaknesses.

No he pretty bad

OMG QUAN BUFFS BURN IT WITH FIRE is going to be the general consensus here but please hear me out. This thread has mostly universal changes but some of this will be about the Summoner variation.
EDIT: IM ABSOLUTELY SICK OF THIS QUAN CHI UP PLAY IT'S DESPICABLE. JUST BECAUSE HE WAS GREAT BEFORE DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO CRY ABOUT HOW HE IS SO "PERFECT" NOW SMH​

We all know summoner Quan was butchered in the last patch. He honestly was really dumb to fight against and needed those changes. Now you'll see like a couple summoners online and even offline. Even when Quan was an offensive beast, not that many pros were playing him due to lack of defense options. I'm not a down player but Quan being considered top 10 right now is ridiculous. I still believe summoner/ warlock has the best zoning in the game even better than Full Auto, Kenshi (lol Kenshi), Shinnok, etc. That's what summoner is based on, zoning. But he has many problems with his bat. Some of these changes don't have to do with the bat but I feel help Quan as well as other Quan players do.

UNIVERSAL BUFFS
Make Quan's b32 -7 or -6 on block instead of -14.​

Quan chi's b324 should be -14 on block since it is a low combo starter. There should be a reward for hit confirming on block into b32 which doesn't launch on hit and it would still slightly punishable by some characters or safe but still negative. After you do b3 (-13 on block) anything after that or even that is completely unsafe and full combo punishable.

Make Quan's B1 have a startup of 11 frames instead of 14 frames.​

Quan right now is basically 50/50s and zoning. He really lacks a fast moving mid to use in neutral. B1 isn't some great combo starter move but it's great to check people in neutral because of the good range.

Enhanced scoop (db1) in all variations like Warlock.​

Please put the pitchfork down. I think it is very fair to give Quan a wakeup now since he's been nerfed pretty heavily. It will still be -20 and easy to bait out for a full combo punish. It's just ridiculous playing characters like A-list Johnny Cage, Swarm Queen D'Vorah, Jax, Liu Kang, etc., and having nothing but your trusty ol' d1 lol. NRS please stop buffing sky drop it is completely useless and has a horrible hitbox you can even anti air it on the way down. Sky drop is hands down the most useless armor in the game.

D1 being +10 on hit rather than +3.​

There's not a worse feeling than counter poking with d1 to see it hit while they mash buttons or armor, getting out of whatever string you went for next. I don't want 50/50s off of a d1 hitting, this doesn't guarantee a low or overhead after the poke hits. Most characters have around +15 after a d1 hits. This just gives you more time maybe to do his s1 (7f).

SUMMONER BUFFS
Bat whiffing issues.​

For the love of God just watch this video http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Kinetic Predato/video/16430813 and this video where I don't understand why bat is a mid but when immediately called out there are inconsistencies. http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Kinetic Predato/video/16775127
Nuff said there please fix that lord Paulo the bat is a projectile why isn't it working IT'S FRUSTRATING lol.

B1 into bat summon being safe.​

I'm not asking for safe 50/50s into bat summon, I just want one single move to be safe into bat call. Summoner needs the bat out at all times and this can help.

Bat summon made slightly quicker.​

No I don't want the broken cooldown it had from the start of the game but getting bat out faster can help him not get punished as much when maybe calling it out of b1 range.

Thanks for reading and let me know your opinions below. I think these buffs are fair and do not make him op but make him better to use. Everything else is fine. WOOLAY. Please don't torch me this is just my opinion.​

@STB Shujinkydink
@michaelangelo
@PND_Ketchup
@YOMI REO
@Darklightgls
@AllTheRichHomiesOutThere

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Most of these buffs are good ideas and are nice but b1 being 11f mid (11f isn't a bad idea) info a safe bat call? Ssssssssssstttop that's stupid. I don't agree with him getting warlocks wakeup because he doesn't need it but I do think they should undo his runes damage scaling because they already nerfed his damage with the trance nerf. He don't need warlocks reversal that's too much, just add armour to skydrop on the way down and make it a little faster and a better aerial hitbox .

 

[Kinetic Predator]

Nooooooo not at all that shit still sucks


No he pretty bad



Most of these buffs are good ideas and are nice but b1 being 11f mid (11f isn't a bad idea) info a safe bat call? Ssssssssssstttop that's stupid. I don't agree with him getting warlocks wakeup because he doesn't need it but I do think they should undo his runes damage scaling because they already nerfed his damage with the trance nerf. He don't need warlocks reversal that's too much, just add armour to skydrop on the way down and make it a little faster and a better aerial hitbox .

DarkLight's and my ideas go ask him why he needs this he'll tell you.

 

[Kinetic Predator]

Faster b1, safe low meterless starter, safe bet call outside of combo.

B324 is not a super easy hit confirm and b1 into bat call isn't some godlike buff lol not like it's a 50/50 into a safe bat call

 

[Rude]

B324 is not a super easy hit confirm and b1 into bat call isn't some godlike buff lol not like it's a 50/50 into a safe bat call

Call Bat after combos, during mb trance and hard knockdowns. It's what Sorcerer has to do.

Honestly, match-up wise Quan can compete with most of the cast. So long as he can do that, he doesn't need a bunch of buffs.

 

[Rude]

Also i find it annoying that quan cant punish johnnys ex np , why not make his b1 slightly faster

Quan CAN punish Johnny's nutpunch with Portal Scoop. With a bar, that's a full combo.

 

[Nuovo_Cabjoy]

Ever heard the saying "When everyone around you is an asshole, maybe you're the asshole?".

The vibe I'm getting from this thread is "When everyone around you says the character doesn't need buffs, maybe he doesn't need buffs."

Food for thought.

 

[Vote4theGote]

Where did I say he was useless? I just said he's good and only a bit worse than Summoner which I don't see how anyone can disagree with that. If you want him to be equal to the other 2 variations then he needs what I asked for, I didn't say he needed it to be viable.

NJP, d3, and s1 don't work on wakeup and they don't make up for having no armored AA. As Warlock I'm scared to wake up with portal slam in the corner because I'll just get neutral jump kick option selected. If portal stab were just a bit faster we could punish those dumb NJKs and its armor would actually have a purpose. It's barely useful as a reset option as it is. On top of that, armored anti airs are needed in this game because jump punches when mixed up are hard to react to and jump kicks CAN'T be anti aired at all without armor. Also if you whiff something and only recover fast enough to block a jump punch but not fast enough to d3 anti air, then armor is great to have as a last resort.

Portal grab doesn't even get used in combos because it doesn't put them full screen like 141, builds meter on whiff better after 141, and only increases damage by 2%.

Portal kick doesn't anti air, that's what portal grab should be for.

Portal slam* is great on the feet but on wakeup it's not that great because of the fact that it not only whiffs vs all jumps but it also stays in range to be easily punished unlike Sub Zero's slide. Warlock is good but not as good as the other 2, and my buffs put him exactly even with them.

Portal Kick will AA Johnny Cage, Kung Lao, Sonya, Kitana, Scorpion, Sub Zero, Takeda, Kung Jin, BRC, Kano, Erron Black, Ermac, Ferra/Torr, Raiden, Quan Chi, Goro, Tremor, and Triborg. You just have to catch them on the downward arc of their forward jumps.

If my notes are correct Sonya and Ermac are the easiest to AA (outside of bigger characters) and Kitana and Kano was very tight. By tight, I mean you want to Portal Kick them right before they hit the ground.

Alien, Jason, Jacqui, Liu Kang, Jax, Kenshi, Mileena, Cassie Cage, Tanya, Leatherface, Predator, Shinnok, Kotal Kahn, Reptile, and D'Vorah were very inconsistent. Not impossible but not reliable.

This is a good tool to use as Warlock. Once you've locked your opponent down at full screen even a good player will try to jump out of QC's full screen zoning.

Another good tool is using Portal Grab at the end of Midscreen BNB. After that, check them with a Rune. If they respect the Rune, run in for a 50/50 or throw. This won't necessarily change MUs or thrust Warlock into the Top 5 argument but it will help keep your opponent guessing.

 

[Nuovo_Cabjoy]

Portal Kick will AA Johnny Cage, Kung Lao, Sonya, Kitana, Scorpion, Sub Zero, Takeda, Kung Jin, BRC, Kano, Erron Black, Ermac, Ferra/Torr, Raiden, Quan Chi, Goro, Tremor, and Triborg. You just have to catch them on the downward arc of their forward jumps.

If my notes are correct Sonya and Ermac are the easiest to AA (outside of bigger characters) and Kitana and Kano was very tight. By tight, I mean you want to Portal Kick them right before they hit the ground.

Alien, Jason, Jacqui, Liu Kang, Jax, Kenshi, Mileena, Cassie Cage, Tanya, Leatherface, Predator, Shinnok, Kotal Kahn, Reptile, and D'Vorah were very inconsistent. Not impossible but not reliable.

This is a good tool to use as Warlock. Once you've locked your opponent down at full screen even a good player will try to jump out of QC's full screen zoning.

Another good tool is using Portal Grab at the end of Midscreen BNB. After that, check them with a Rune. If they respect the Rune, run in for a 50/50 or throw. This won't necessarily change MUs or thrust Warlock into the Top 5 argument but it will help keep your opponent guessing.

The fact that mb rune is delayable actually improves warlock/sorceror zoning too anyway. People get very hesitant to move forward after one rune, meaning you can often get up another skull into jailing rune or f3. New Quan is the bomb!

 

[MsMiharo]

B324 is not a super easy hit confirm and b1 into bat call isn't some godlike buff lol not like it's a 50/50 into a safe bat call

It being easy or not is not really an argument for a buff. Call a bat after a combo or after MB trance. Or take a risk and throw it out in neutral. You know, a risk reward situation.

 

[ienjoywinning]

Quan CAN punish Johnny's nutpunch with Portal Scoop. With a bar, that's a full combo.

What about both summoner and sorcrer ?

 

[Rude]

What about both summoner and sorcrer ?

Sounds to me like you might need to utilize the variation system.

Or, you could just run up and do your 50/50. -14 (I think that's how - Johnny's nutpunch is) would be enough for most characters to at least start pressure if they can't get a clean punish. In Summoner and Sorcerer's case, replace "pressure" with "50/50."

 

[ienjoywinning]

Sounds to me like you might need to utilize the variation system.

Or, you could just run up and do your 50/50. -14 (I think that's how - Johnny's nutpunch is) would be enough for most characters to at least start pressure if they can't get a clean punish. In Summoner and Sorcerer's case, replace "pressure" with "50/50."

Why should i switch a variation to punish one move? Why not make his b1 faster? It really wont hurt making it 11f at all lol. Also even if i can run and do a 50/50 if he has meter he can just do another ex np and im forced to guess if he does or doesn't

 

[Rude]

Why should i switch a variation to punish one move? Why not make his b1 faster? It really wont hurt making it 11f at all lol. Also even if i can run and do a 50/50 if he has meter he can just do another ex np and im forced to guess if he does or doesn't

Welcome to fighting games, where you have to make reads. If you think he's going to do ANOTHER ex nutpunch, then don't run in. Let him waste the bar.

Also, you're not switching just to punish just one move. You're switching to give yourself more options for the match up. Both portal kick and scoop punish a lot of things Quan can't normally punish otherwise.

You might not be able to use one variation for every single match up and in my opinion, you shouldn't.

B1 doesn't need to be 11 frames. It has hella range and space control.