Question - Quan Chi Small Quan Buffs

[Rude]

Tell me why or you're wrong. Don't be scared.

That made absolutely no sense. Can we excommunicate this guy from the Quan forums, yet?

 

[Goat-City]

That made absolutely no sense. Can we excommunicate this guy from the Quan forums, yet?

It's a simple way of saying that I disagree until you prove how I'm wrong, context should've told you that.

 

[Rude]

It's a simple way of saying that I disagree until you prove how I'm wrong, context should've told you that.

Feel free to disagree. Such is the beauty of public forums. Any idiot can have an opinion.

Anyway, I don't really think Quan needs any buffs or nerfs. The stuff that was really fucked up about him have been fixed, and yet his core toolset remains very solid.

He only has a handful of bad match ups and even then, switching over to Warlock helps for that. If you have a character with a lot of even match ups and only a few really tough ones, I'd say you're in a good place.

Which Quan Chi currently is.

 

[Goat-City]

Feel free to disagree. Such is the beauty of public forums. Any idiot can have an opinion.

Anyway, I don't really think Quan needs any buffs or nerfs. The stuff that was really fucked up about him have been fixed, and yet his core toolset remains very solid.

He only has a handful of bad match ups and even then, switching over to Warlock helps for that. If you have a character with a lot of even match ups and only a few really tough ones, I'd say you're in a good place.

Which Quan Chi currently is.

Agreed, his spot on the tier list is about what other characters should be balanced around. My suggestions are just how I personally would like him designed, which is making his useless strings useful, removing his HTBs, and making him more of a zoning powerhouse at the expense of his 50/50s, because I like zoning and dislike low risk high reward 50/50s regardless of whether the character is OP or balanced in the roster.

Warlock is different in that I think he should get buffed too. He's definitely weaker than the other 2, his portal grab is basically useless and does nothing for his zoning or counter zoning, he has no armored anti air when this variation's biggest bonus is armor. He's good, only about 5 tier spots below Summoner, but I'd like to see him buffed in those specific ways.

 

[Rude]

Agreed, his spot on the tier list is about what other characters should be balanced around. My suggestions are just how I personally would like him designed, which is making his useless strings useful, removing his HTBs, and making him more of a zoning powerhouse at the expense of his 50/50s, because I like zoning and dislike low risk high reward 50/50s regardless of whether the character is OP or balanced in the roster.

Warlock is different in that I think he should get buffed too. He's definitely weaker than the other 2, his portal grab is basically useless and does nothing for his zoning or counter zoning, he has no armored anti air when this variation's biggest bonus is armor. He's good, only 3 or so tier spots below Summoner, but I'd like to see him buffed in those specific ways.

Warlock is FAR from useless and doesn't need major buffs. He doesn't need armored anti-air. NJP and d3 and yes, even his stand 1 are all the anti-air you need.

Portal grab should be used in combos exclusively. There's no need for it to be buffed when you have portal kick. Not only does portal kick keep zoning in check, but it can whiff punish as well. The best part is when they start running to avoid the kick, because that opens up b1, d4, runes, skulls, etc to stop running.

Portal Grab is fine for armor. It has nearly the range of B2 and launches for a full combo for a bar. Say you do f212. You're -1, and you read a button press. Well, portal grab will armor right through. Once they respect that, it opens up the use of your overhead.

Warlock is great these days.

 

[Goat-City]

Warlock is FAR from useless and doesn't need major buffs. He doesn't need armored anti-air. NJP and d3 and yes, even his stand 1 are all the anti-air you need.

Portal grab should be used in combos exclusively. There's no need for it to be buffed when you have portal kick. Not only does portal kick keep zoning in check, but it can whiff punish as well. The best part is when they start running to avoid the kick, because that opens up b1, d4, runes, skulls, etc to stop running.

Portal Grab is fine for armor. It has nearly the range of B2 and launches for a full combo for a bar. Say you do f212. You're -1, and you read a button press. Well, portal grab will armor right through. Once they respect that, it opens up the use of your overhead.

Warlock is great these days.

Where did I say he was useless? I just said he's good and only a bit worse than Summoner which I don't see how anyone can disagree with that. If you want him to be equal to the other 2 variations then he needs what I asked for, I didn't say he needed it to be viable.

NJP, d3, and s1 don't work on wakeup and they don't make up for having no armored AA. As Warlock I'm scared to wake up with portal slam in the corner because I'll just get neutral jump kick option selected. If portal stab were just a bit faster we could punish those dumb NJKs and its armor would actually have a purpose. It's barely useful as a reset option as it is. On top of that, armored anti airs are needed in this game because jump punches when mixed up are hard to react to and jump kicks CAN'T be anti aired at all without armor. Also if you whiff something and only recover fast enough to block a jump punch but not fast enough to d3 anti air, then armor is great to have as a last resort.

Portal grab doesn't even get used in combos because it doesn't put them full screen like 141, builds meter on whiff better after 141, and only increases damage by 2%.

Portal kick doesn't anti air, that's what portal grab should be for.

Portal slam* is great on the feet but on wakeup it's not that great because of the fact that it not only whiffs vs all jumps but it also stays in range to be easily punished unlike Sub Zero's slide. Warlock is good but not as good as the other 2, and my buffs put him exactly even with them.

 

[SaSSolino]

Sí.

niet

 

[Rude]

Where did I say he was useless? I just said he's good and only a bit worse than Summoner which I don't see how anyone can disagree with that. If you want him to be equal to other the other 2 variations then he needs what I asked for, I didn't say he needed it to be viable.

NJP, d3, and s1 don't work on wakeup and they don't make up for having no armored AA. As Warlock I'm scared to wake up with portal slam in the corner because I'll just get neutral jump kick option selected. If portal stab were just a bit faster we could punish those dumb NJKs and its armor would actually have a purpose. It's barely useful as a reset option as it is. On top of that, armored anti airs are needed in this game because jump punches when mixed up are hard to react to and jump kicks CAN'T be anti aired at all without armor. Also if you whiff something and only recover fast enough to block a jump punch but not fast enough to d3 anti air, then armor is great to have as a last resort.

Portal grab doesn't even get used in combos because it doesn't put them full screen like 141, builds meter on whiff better after 141, and only increases damage by 2%.

Portal kick doesn't anti air, that's what portal grab should be for.

Portal slam* is great on the feet but on wakeup it's not that great because of the fact that it not only whiffs vs all jumps but it also stays in range to be easily punished unlike Sub Zero's slide. Warlock is good but not as good as the other 2, and my buffs put him exactly even with them.

NJP can anti-air jump kicks. Also, you can walk back and trip guard a jump kick with d3. You don't need an armored DP for anti-air. Also, if they cross you up on wake up you can use delayed wake up to make it whiff, backdash, or tech roll and NJP. You want jump ins to never work at all, and that's silliness. If you whiff something and they jump on you, that's your bad and you should have to hold that.

Portal Grab definitely gets used in combos. For one thing, it's a hard knockdown. Which means you can run up and bait a wake up, cross them up, etc. Also, you don't always want the opponent full screen. Ending in 141 has it's uses, but if my opponent is cornered, I'll end in grab instead. That's more of a personal preference thing.

Portal Scoop as a wake up is fine. Combined with short and long delayed wake ups, wake up throw, and wake up backdash you have plenty of options. If you think they'll NJK on knockdown, delay your wake up to make it whiff or armor the follow up or block. If they're trying to bait the grab, then you can do other things.

The fact that they're trying to bait it means it's already doing it's job. Once you get the opponent conditioned to look for option A, use option B. That's how the meta evolves in a match.

Warlock is definitely just as good as the other two.

 

[Goat-City]

NJP can anti-air jump kicks. Also, you can walk back and trip guard a jump kick with d3. You don't need an armored DP for anti-air. Also, if they cross you up on wake up you can use delayed wake up to make it whiff, backdash, or tech roll and NJP. You want jump ins to never work at all, and that's silliness. If you whiff something and they jump on you, that's your bad and you should have to hold that.

Portal Grab definitely gets used in combos. For one thing, it's a hard knockdown. Which means you can run up and bait a wake up, cross them up, etc. Also, you don't always want the opponent full screen. Ending in 141 has it's uses, but if my opponent is cornered, I'll end in grab instead. That's more of a personal preference thing.

Portal Scoop as a wake up is fine. Combined with short and long delayed wake ups, wake up throw, and wake up backdash you have plenty of options. If you think they'll NJK on knockdown, delay your wake up to make it whiff or armor the follow up or block. If they're trying to bait the grab, then you can do other things.

The fact that they're trying to bait it means it's already doing it's job. Once you get the opponent conditioned to look for option A, use option B. That's how the meta evolves in a match.

Warlock is definitely just as good as the other two.

Stuff I already know. NJP'ing jump kicks works but not as well as armor and you're not always going to use NJP because of its inputs and it doesn't low profile like d3. Armor covers all options. Delayed wakeup doesn't always make a jump punch whiff, tech roll NJP doesn't always beat the air normal. Spending a bar to anti air a jump in you couldn't otherwise do for only 11% guaranteed is not silliness.

True about portal grab, but it's still only barely useful.

Our fundamental disagreement is you think Warlock is as good as the other 2 when it isn't, not before the patch or after. I'm assuming you know the craziness that the other 2 have so there's no point in telling you, just have to disagree.

 

[Rude]

Stuff I already know. NJP'ing jump kicks works but not as well as armor and you're not always going to use NJP because of its inputs. Armor covers all options. Delayed wakeup doesn't always make a jump punch whiff, tech roll NJP doesn't always beat the air normal. Spending a bar to anti air a jump in you couldn't otherwise do is not silliness.

True about portal grab, but it's still only barely useful.

Our fundamental disagreement is you think Warlock is as good as the other 2 when it isn't. I'm assuming you know the craziness that the other 2 have so there's no point in telling you, just have to disagree.

You shouldn't have an option that beats all of the opponent's air options 100% of the time. The only character that does to my knowledge is Kung Lao and he doesn't have a 50/50, full-screen frame traps, a tracking normal, or a 5f NJP. You can't have everything.

The only way a jump in is beating a delayed wake up is if they're doing the jump attack later in the jump arch, and that's then reading that you're delaying your wake up. Which, if they made that read you should have to hold that.

Where we "fundamentally disagree" is that you want one option that beats out all of your opponent's options 10/10 times in the air and I think it's unnecessary. You can't be afraid to make reads.

It's definitely just as good as the other two, it just isn't autopilot.

 

[MsMiharo]

I am still amazed that the thread is called "Small Quan buffs"

 

[Goat-City]

You shouldn't have an option that beats all of the opponent's air options 100% of the time. The only character that does to my knowledge is Kung Lao and he doesn't have a 50/50, full-screen frame traps, a tracking normal, or a 5f NJP. You can't have everything.

The only way a jump in is beating a delayed wake up is if they're doing the jump attack later in the jump arch, and that's then reading that you're delaying your wake up. Which, if they made that read you should have to hold that.

Where we "fundamentally disagree" is that you want one option that beats out all of your opponent's options 10/10 times in the air and I think it's unnecessary. You can't be afraid to make reads.

It's definitely just as good as the other two, it just isn't autopilot.

Sub Zero, Kitana, Lao, Cassie Cage, Reptile, Dvorah I think, Raiden, Tremor, etc. all have armored anti airs, some of which launch.

No, I just told you where we fundamentally disagree. Everything is semantics if you disagree that Warlock isn't as good as the other 2. If I thought Warlock was as good as them then I wouldn't be asking for anything for him.

 

[Rude]

Sub Zero, Kitana, Lao, Cassie Cage, Reptile, Dvorah I think, Raiden, etc. all have armored anti airs.

No, I just told you where we fundamentally disagree. Everything is semantics if you disagree that Warlock isn't as good as the other 2. If I thought Warlock was as good as them then I wouldn't be asking for anything for him.

What is D'Vorah's? X-Ray I guess?

 

[macro]

A pretty much safe 50/50 tool.
NO!

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

I am still amazed that the thread is called "Small Quan buffs"

Asking for 11f mid and d1 being +10 on hit, a safe low meteress launcher......."small buffs"

 

[Goat-City]

What is D'Vorah's? X-Ray I guess?

I was thinking after the speed buff to her ovipositor thing it should work as one. There's also Crystalline Tremor, Sonya, Johnny, Ermac, Jason, Kotal, basically a lot of characters have one.

 

[Rude]

I was thinking after the speed buff to her ovipositor thing it should work as one. There's also Crystalline Tremor, Sonya, Johnny, Ermac, Jason, Kotal, basically a lot of characters have one.

Yeah, that's true. I definitely forgot some. I'll hold that.

 

[MsMiharo]

Asking for 11f mid and d1 being +10 on hit, a safe low meteress launcher......."small buffs"

Armor into full combo in every variation, safe bat summon from b1???? Faster bat summon? I r ded.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Armor into full combo in every variation, safe bat summon from b1???? Faster bat summon? I r ded.

After reading this thread I feel like a lot of Quan players underestimate his tools and aren't using his tools creatively enough. So they ask for buffs, but I think Quan is perfect now

 

[MsMiharo]

After reading this thread I feel like a lot of Quan players underestimate his tools and aren't using his tools creatively enough. So they ask for buffs, but I think Quan is perfect now

I require that his njp is toned down before he recieves a buff of any kind

 

[Aramonde]

The only thing that needs to be buffed, no normalized is sky drop. Other than that he's fine.

 

[omooba]

after seeing his statement on b2 and b32 i just couldn't continue
b2 should be 8 frames because it goes almost half screen
and b32 should be plus 2 because if you try to make it plus with a special move it has a gap

 

[GAV]

WOOLAY!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ienjoywinning]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Balanced has multi hitting launching armor and safe armor.



Kotal Khan is a slow character guys.

Yeah slow as hell with a 9f advancing mid , 6f d1 , 6f d4 7f d3 and like a 13f armored launcher?

 

[ienjoywinning]

Also i find it annoying that quan cant punish johnnys ex np , why not make his b1 slightly faster