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Match-up Discussion Kung Lao Match-Up Chart December 2012

D

Death

Noob
Good post King. I am leaning towards a slight adv for Sonya in the KL matchup. KL does have a lot of tools vs her but I think it comes down to damage the risk/reward factor. KL has to take a lot of risks vs her and Sonya out damages him heavily. Especially with no meter too.

Cage/KL is an interesting MU. On paper KL has so many tools to deal with Cage. He has a 6f spin and a 7f 2 to deal with cage pressure. 90% of other characters dont have this luxury. I personally think its 5-5 but like you said when does KL ever beat Cage. Maybe its the player? who knows.

KL loses to Kabal for sure. Cyrax is a tough one to call too. But if KL takes any risk vs Cyrax than hes dead. I think Cyrax wins 6-4.

Kitana is iffy too. Similar with Cage KL has the tools there but when does KL ever beat a Kitana?

People saying Sektor beating KL is a joke. That is dead even.
 
Big Pampering

Big Pampering

Noob
Death said:
Good post King. I am leaning towards a slight adv for Sonya in the KL matchup. KL does have a lot of tools vs her but I think it comes down to damage the risk/reward factor. KL has to take a lot of risks vs her and Sonya out damages him heavily. Especially with no meter too.

Cage/KL is an interesting MU. On paper KL has so many tools to deal with Cage. He has a 6f spin and a 7f 2 to deal with cage pressure. 90% of other characters dont have this luxury. I personally think its 5-5 but like you said when does KL ever beat Cage. Maybe its the player? who knows.

KL loses to Kabal for sure. Cyrax is a tough one to call too. But if KL takes any risk vs Cyrax than hes dead. I think Cyrax wins 6-4.

Kitana is iffy too. Similar with Cage KL has the tools there but when does KL ever beat a Kitana?

People saying Sektor beating KL is a joke. That is dead even.
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get the lifelead against kitana even if it is just 15%, make her come to you. her pokes are a problem when you try to start offense but when she has to come to you she will have to stand up to use her normals instead of poking you all day and thats when 21 comes into play. also because you play the lifelead and sit back you have all the time to make sure youre in the correct stance for 24spin, a 7 frame hitconfirmable string with very good range and only -1 on block.

edit: btw after any strings he does youre not limited to spinning every time. you can backaway and try to start offense again you dont have to be in the opponents firing out 21/24/1121's or spin to beat the pokes. just punish everything with 21/hitconfirm 24/2121/1121 for combos. kung lao will eventually have to land that combo and it doesnt have to be a spin that beats a poke. also kung lao players should use his meter combos to make sure every time he hits you it really counts for atleast 40% or more, either off of a teleport 3 or off of a 21spin with ex hat.
 
ShanxterX

ShanxterX

@shanxterx follow me hoes
i believe KL loses slightly to: cage, sonya, kabal and cyrax

i believe KL vs Kitana is 5/5 , you just gotta be patient
 
Slips

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
UsedForGlue said:
KL Has no losing matches, only winning ones and 5-5's.

The rules of an even match for KL are simple, and seem to get the waters muddied when they cant do the following: no special teleports, no 21212, no low hats up close, low hit box, spins punished hard, teleports punished with more than uppercuts, no ambiguous crossovers, no random dive kicks, JIP 1 Strings augmented to B1F1, and B333 (hit confirmed spin on b33) and 24 Overhead being punished on block by specials, inability to zone with low hats/projectiles.

All of these are evident and STANDARD in the KL mirror match (except for 24 overhead) and it is a solid 5-5, but for some reason KL supposedly has a few 6-4 MU's where he can use at least one of these in a fight, for example, against Cage, KL can use 1121 on a crouching block and JIP, can zone cage with low hats, ex low hat bullying in the corner,can exploit 21212 :ex teleport grab wiff, can trade a spin with cages f3 after 11f1, can :ex teleport wiff grab out of forceball frame traps, but cannot 24 into low hats or overhead on block.

Unless a character takes away more from KL than the mirror match does, then it can't be a worse match. It isn't possible.

I have yet to hear a convincing argument to this point (I am still open to them), and I have been saying it for along time now. When you lose to Sonya, kitana. Kenshi, Cyrax Kabal etc, it could be you not playing the match up right or the very simple and realistic point that the opponent just plays it better than you and sits at an equal skill level.
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Mirror matches are 5-5 because they are mirror matches.

This makes no sense.
 
xKhaoTik

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Death said:
Kabal, Cyrax, Sonya I can agree with winning slightly. Cage, Sektor and Kitana is iffy. KL has a lot more tools vs those characters than he does the other 3.

KL is top 5.
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how can u see sonya beating lao but not kit?

you and i have ran the kit/son vs Lao MU MANY times and i thought it was obvious Kit has more of an advantage than sonya.
 
D

Death

Noob
xKhaoTikx said:
how can u see sonya beating lao but not kit?

you and i have ran the kit/son vs Lao MU MANY times and i thought it was obvious Kit has more of an advantage than sonya.
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Thats true. Sonya does better vs Kitana than KL in my opinion. Sonya does beat Kitana. I am a believer of that MU now.

But KL can play the same way vs Kitana than Sonya can but Kit might have the edge. Kit takes away KL mobility tools and her damage and low hitbox hurts him as well. But KL can sit on the life lead alot better than Kitana can.
 
Maxter

Maxter

Noob
FOREVER KING said:
Kabal beats Kung Lao for sure, Kabal is the best character in the game and when played perfectly it is impossible to lose with him. Kabal beats almost every character in the game from any position on the screen. He has normals that give him +9 on block and dash cancels in which it is always a 50/50 guess that you have to guess to poke out or you have to guess if Kabal is going to end his block string with a special move OR you have to guess if he isn't even going to cancel his dash and let it rip. It's retarded. His overhead hookswords and his low buzz saw special moves make it so that everytime Kabal does a block string on you, he can end with either of those two special moves so you have to guess to block low or high. Or he can just dash cancel bullshit. Literally everytime Kabal touches you is a mix-up. Let us not even discuss Kabal's zoning. He is consistently building meter off of everything he does whether it is zoning NDCs or being attacked. Kabal doesn't even have EVEN match-ups, let alone losing match-ups. So Kung Lao vs Kabal is definitely 4-6 in Kabal's favor. If you want me to go more into the Kabal vs Kung Lao match-up details, Kabal can literally IAGB so close to the ground that it is hard for Kung Lao to get in, and when Kung Lao teleports Kabal has enough time to stop IAGB and punish the teleport if the Kabal player is doing the IAGB good enough. So basically every single teleport can eat EX Nomad Dash, and Kabal always has meter. Literally ALL of Kung Lao's special moves on block can be full combo punished by Kabal. Sure Kung Lao has a spin to stop Kabal's pressure, but are you really going to just randomly guess a spin that if it gets blocked, Kabal will launch you for 35+% into F+4 into dash cancel into standing 2 NDC and more pressure? This matchup is not even lol. People do not understand that yeah some Kabal players lose because he is kind of an execution heavy character and people mess up his shit, but if Kabal is mastered and played perfectly and got max damage off of all possible combos than I don't think Kabal would even have a 6-4 matchup, everything would be 7-3 or higher in his favor.

Cyrax could be argued 5-5 or 4-6 in Cyrax's favor, but Cyrax definitely has more options in this matchup and it is alot more comfortable for Cyrax. His anti-air grab helps alot vs Kung Lao's teleports and jumping around dive kicking etc. When Kung Lao starts his offense vs Cyrax, after all of Kung Lao's block strings Cyrax can just d1 before Kung Lao does anything else so it is hard for Lao to keep his offense going. The ONLY way for Kung Lao to stop Cyrax's d1 after a block string is to spin, but again the spin is VERY risky vs Cyrax because a blocked spin can lead to a 100% combo. If Kung Lao has a breaker, and spins, and Cyrax blocks it, Cyrax can just do 2~net than perform a 60% unbreakable combo on him basically saying "Fuck your breaker Kung Lao" lol. Kung Lao won't even get a chance to use the breaker he has. Kung Lao definitely has to use his mobility to the fullest in this matchup, and he is not helpless vs Cyrax, but Cyrax definitely has slight advantage. I have been playing both characters for a long time now and have played this matchup in particular from both standpoints many of times. In conclusion I will say 4-6 in Cyrax's favor.

Cage is also another match-up that can be argued 5-5 or 4-6 in Cage's favor. But let's be serious here, when is the last time anyone has ever even seen Kung Lao beat Cage in a tournament? Can anyone name one? I can't, but I can name multiple times where Cage has beaten Kung Lao in tournament. But to get into the match-up, Kung Lao players usually like to play rushdown and a more close-up perspective fighting game. But, Cage is the best rushdown character in the game and he wants to be in the opponent's face the whole entire game, that is the goal for Cage. This makes it kind of a struggle for most Kung Lao players, you can't really rushdown like you want to in this matchup. You have to lame Cage out. But let's be serious here, some Kabals, Freddys, and Kenshis have trouble laming Cage out.... What the fuck is Kung Lao going to do to lame Cage out? lol it is really tough. Low hats and straight hats aren't going to keep Cage out forever. This is definitely one of Kung Lao's toughest matchups. When Cage gets up on you, you need to try to 21 out of his pressure because Kung Lao's 21 is much faster than all of Cage's strings. Cage also has alot of frame traps that keep you committed to block and some frame traps Kung Lao can spin out of, but also Cage can just bait your spin and full combo whiff punish. Another thing very annoying about Cage is his low hit box, which is another problem for Kung Lao that makes 21 whiff and alot of 1121 whiff on Cages' crouch block. NEVER random teleport on Cage you will get blown up by back dash standing 1 or backdash b3 every single time. Sometimes you can rely on spin to get out of Cages favor, but than again a spin on block will get blown up badly and lead to 30+% and nutpunch reset. Back into Cage's pressure all over again ):

Kitana can be argued as 5-5 or 4-6 in her favor, but either way it is still only slight favor to Kitana. If you could use .5 I would say 4.5-5.5 Kitana favor. I don't really feel like going into the matchup right now, you can ask @gga 16bit

Nobody ever said Kenshi was a bad matchup

My list currently states Sonya matchup is even, but I see where alot of people are coming from when they try to say Sonya favor. It is arguable either way
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I play Kit, cage cyrax and Kung Lao and i could tell you all of these matchups are dead even.
I do pretty good against Kits with Lao, Do pretty good against cyraxes too, is just a matter of patience, Cage Lao cage can;t be so brain dead on his strings cause 6f spin and 7 frames standing Jabs. I have been Using Lao since the beginning of the game, just pulled him out once in tournament against my Bro cd Jr and he won with Kabal cause i dropped the standing 3 into ex hat, Kung Lao is heavily downplayed specially by PL and TB.
Honestly even Sonya is a 5-5 against him maybe on his favor a little, People think Kung Lao is all about telports, GTFOH.
 
Big Pampering

Big Pampering

Noob
Maxter said:
I play Kit, cage cyrax and Kung Lao and i could tell you all of these matchups are dead even.
I do pretty good against Kits with Lao, Do pretty good against cyraxes too, is just a matter of patience, Cage Lao cage can;t be so brain dead on his strings cause 6f spin and 7 frames standing Jabs. I have been Using Lao since the beginning of the game, just pulled him out once in tournament against my Bro cd Jr and he won with Kabal cause i dropped the standing 3 into ex hat, Kung Lao is heavily downplayed specially by PL and TB.
Honestly even Sonya is a 5-5 against him maybe on his favor a little, People think Kung Lao is all about telports, GTFOH.
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where does kung lao get his damage from in the cyrax matchup?
 
D

Death

Noob
Maxter said:
I play Kit, cage cyrax and Kung Lao and i could tell you all of these matchups are dead even.
I do pretty good against Kits with Lao, Do pretty good against cyraxes too, is just a matter of patience, Cage Lao cage can;t be so brain dead on his strings cause 6f spin and 7 frames standing Jabs. I have been Using Lao since the beginning of the game, just pulled him out once in tournament against my Bro cd Jr and he won with Kabal cause i dropped the standing 3 into ex hat, Kung Lao is heavily downplayed specially by PL and TB.
Honestly even Sonya is a 5-5 against him maybe on his favor a little, People think Kung Lao is all about telports, GTFOH.
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I like this post lol
 
Maxter

Maxter

Noob
PerfectMindGame said:
where does kung lao get his damage from in the cyrax matchup?
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Jr knows how to fight cyrax at the higheest possible level, i'm not talking smack here, Lao don't have to risky with teleports and can spam safe low hats, he forces cyrax to jump, cyrax can't do random nets on Lao if the Lao knows when to do his hats, cyrax can't do Nets either cause the Lao can do dive Kick on reaction, he has plenty time for this, is just a matter of patience, I destroy Laos pretty bad caue i know that match too much, but also Jr destroys cyraxes pretty bad cause of his knowledge,. Lao can also to teleports on reaction to net and punish cyrax for it, cyrax has to be very careful so does Lao. tis is a matter of the Lao having vast experience on how to fight cyrax since cyrax has adv if the Lao is not experienced and patience enough. This matchup is dead even so everyone who think is not GTFOH. one of these days i put some of these matches in videos so people see what i'm talking about.
 
Maxter

Maxter

Noob
Lao is definetely top 2 or three in the game, i still put kenshi cause of his abuse on most of the cast, but still Lao doesn't have the bad matchups kenshi does, Lao is very underrated on this community. I won't post anymore about this since i don't like interfeering on matchups charts and people think i Just downplay or upplay characters =/
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Noob
Death said:
Kabal, Cyrax, Sonya I can agree with winning slightly. Cage, Sektor and Kitana is iffy. KL has a lot more tools vs those characters than he does the other 3.

KL is top 5.
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yep top 5 without a doubt, cage kit and sek aren't iffy, lao has a tough time keeping cage out, sektor has a low hitbox, good luck trying to pressure him and teles are easy to punish with his d2, kitana has a low hitbox as well which messes with his pressure and punishes him hard if he messes up/ can fan his divekicks and teles.
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Noob
Maxter said:
Jr knows how to fight cyrax at the higheest possible level, i'm not talking smack here, Lao don't have to risky with teleports and can spam safe low hats, he forces cyrax to jump, cyrax can't do random nets on Lao if the Lao knows when to do his hats, cyrax can't do Nets either cause the Lao can do dive Kick on reaction, he has plenty time for this, is just a matter of patience, I destroy Laos pretty bad caue i know that match too much, but also Jr destroys cyraxes pretty bad cause of his knowledge,. Lao can also to teleports on reaction to net and punish cyrax for it, cyrax has to be very careful so does Lao. tis is a matter of the Lao having vast experience on how to fight cyrax since cyrax has adv if the Lao is not experienced and patience enough. This matchup is dead even so everyone who think is not GTFOH. one of these days i put some of these matches in videos so people see what i'm talking about.
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i'm sorry bro, but cyrax beats lao. He shuts down what lao does best, and that's air to air combat. teles dnt work nor do divekicks bcuz rax's AA grab can beat both out all the time. He also prevents lao from crossing up with his AA grab. One mistake and that's bad news for lao, and lao has to be very careful with his use of meter. Standing 2 gets blown up by d4 and rax doesn't need to jump bcuz low hats aren't much of a threat to him, he can make a read on them then jump over a low hat for a full combo. I'm not saying it's a free win for rax, but my bro knows the lao mu with rax very well too, and he has it 6 4, so does krayzie, he has it 6 4.
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Noob
Maxter said:
Lao is definetely top 2 or three in the game, i still put kenshi cause of his abuse on most of the cast, but still Lao doesn't have the bad matchups kenshi does, Lao is very underrated on this community. I won't post anymore about this since i don't like interfeering on matchups charts and people think i Just downplay or upplay characters =/
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as for top 3, i'd put sonya in instead of lao. She only loses to 3 chars and has so many offensive/ footsies tools that most chars would die for. I'd put kenshi number 3, i feel ppl dnt play vs him patient enough, which is why they wind up getting blown up. I haven't lost a full set to a kenshi, nor will I bcuz i know the frames on his moves/ normals and what to do vs them. Lao i still feel ppl dnt even know how to deal with his tele and him doing a bunch of crossups, when everyone actually learns the ins and outs of his tele, you'll see ppl having a lot more ease with dealing with him.
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Noob
Also cage automatically beats lao, if we look at the history of that mu in tournament, top cages beat top laos so many times, i dnt even remember the number. Spin and standing 2 are good tools for him, but he's taking a risk with both bcuz standing 2 can be ducked and spin is a full punish on block. Not only am i undefeated vs lao with cage in tournament, but just undefeated in general vs lao with every character i have used vs him, I really know this char, which is why i say he has the bad mus he has. As far as tier listing goes, top 5 without a doubt, he doesn't even have a 7 3 haha, and does well vs kenshi/ kabal.
 
Maxter

Maxter

Noob
MITDJT said:
i'm sorry bro, but cyrax beats lao. He shuts down what lao does best, and that's air to air combat. teles dnt work nor do divekicks bcuz rax's AA grab can beat both out all the time. He also prevents lao from crossing up with his AA grab. One mistake and that's bad news for lao, and lao has to be very careful with his use of meter. Standing 2 gets blown up by d4 and rax doesn't need to jump bcuz low hats aren't much of a threat to him, he can make a read on them then jump over a low hat for a full combo. I'm not saying it's a free win for rax, but my bro knows the lao mu with rax very well too, and he has it 6 4, so does krayzie, he has it 6 4.
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IDC about krayzie matchup chart, or yours or Your bro, all of us have diff opinions and experience against other matchups, We should have your brother cyrax fight Jr's Lao on a money match and you will see what i'm talking about depending on who wins the matchup will be dictated, There is no cyrax that has beaten Jr on his tournament history and seriously He and Reo are the only consistnet players that i know that know how to fight any cyrax at their best. He might easily get 5-0 like winterwarz has done multiple times, hey and winterwarz is no slouch, he beat forever king in a tournament not Long ago.
Lets just leave it like this and let 2 players face each other since noone believe me that i have enough experience on this matchup.
 
Maxter

Maxter

Noob
And BTW people shouldn't listen to PL when he says cyrax beats Lao and then he has personally told me that he doesn't know the matchup, too much contradiction, how can you say such character beats such when you dont even know the matchup, and BTW a player beating other on a matchup doesn't mean the matchup is against or in favor of any of the chars, players got outplayed sometimes.
 
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