What makes mk so simple?

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Because of the block button man....it's too easy to block cross up in MK

 

[Solo]

....What's up with people comparing the difficulty in fighting games? A fighting game is still a game. You don't need special skills, only dedication.

 

[Undergroundepict]

To the casual observer, everyone is broken in MKX.

Knowing how things work is paramount in MKX. The more tech you know and the better you can implement it while recognizing the tech of other characters, the better you will be. Knowledge is the most important thing you can have in MKX. Having the awareness to recognize who's turn it is - and to see opportunities - is what MKX is all about. Even when it comes to the more difficult executions, once the tech behind it is understood - it becomes much easier.

Most of the complaining in MKX from players that know is about the netcode. Then, the players that don't jump in to complain about other stuff. Its an offensive game. Some like that design and some don't, but the ones who don't understand are usually the most vocal complainers in terms of this aspect. Those that know understand how to play it to their advantage. Those that don't whine about stuff that doesn't matter.

Indeed. The netcode is fucking shit and we are all vocal about it. There are very few apologists on these forums; I think that, for the most part, those of us who enjoy the game do a fairly decent job laying out and acknowledging its pros and cons.

I think that on the other side of the spectrum there are those players who, as you put it, do not understand the game, and therefore do not find very much enjoyment in it. This is perfectly fine, not everybody has to like everything that I like. Problems come along when people attempt to objectively justify their inherently subjective opinions.

Instead of simply stating "I don't like the game because it is too offense based and there is not enough defense for my liking," people come in and say "offense is too simple, and there is too much scrubby ass broken tech, and combos are too easy, etc etc.."

A lot of pointless arguments could be avoided if some people refrained from stating their subjective preferences as though they were fact.

 

[FL Rushdown]

That made me lol.

Anyway what I think you're trying to say is that my doesn't have the same mixup potential as other games, and what I think Eddy is saying is that the amount of mixups in this game is about the same as the amount of mixups in a game with crossups.

They compensate for the lack of crossups with 50/50s and such.

Did I get that right?

No. That's what I was saying. MK compensates for its simpler offensive mechanics by making the mechanics it does have incredibly strong. 50/50s exist in pretty much every fighting game, but MK has the strongest ones around.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Crossups are fucking dumb, lol. At least if I lose on 50/50s I can see what I did wrong.
Getting hit with an ambiguous crossup is like getting hit with an OH that looks like a sweep.

 

[Skkra]

-Full combo starting unreactable 50/50s that can be made safe on block, or even plus on block for a second attempt, or third attempt at times that lead to high damage and advantageous pressure after.

While I think the "hugely advancing attacks" argument is one of the main things, this is definitely a big one. Most other games do not follow this pattern.

The similarities to Tekken have been oft discussed around here, and while I do agree on some of them, this difference that you, @SaltShaker, mentioned is one of the biggest. Tekken actually has one of the best overall balances of attacks, and its miles away from the MKX/NRS implementation.

In Tekken, the majority of attacks that grant +frames are highs. The mids that grant +frames generally either require setup or are on the slower side (like Lili's d/f+3, which is 20 frames for +3 on block). Moves that are unreactable are punishable. Even taking the risk to throw out a d+4 unseeable low poke will get you punished with a while standing 4.

I know Foxy brought up some Tekken comparisons to MK, but just wanted to clear this one up!

@iMileena

 

[Skkra]

Crossups are fucking dumb, lol. At least if I lose on 50/50s I can see what I did wrong.
Getting hit with an ambiguous crossup is like getting hit with an OH that looks like a sweep.

To be fair, being in a situation where you're forced to deal with defending a truly ambiguous crossup means that the player on offense earned the opportunity. The spacing on such crossups is always extremely specific... its not like someone can just throw out a jump-in and have it be perfect. It has to be specifically set up.

 

[SaltShaker]

While I think the "hugely advancing attacks" argument is one of the main things, this is definitely a big one. Most other games do not follow this pattern.

The similarities to Tekken have been oft discussed around here, and while I do agree on some of them, this difference that you, @SaltShaker, mentioned is one of the biggest. Tekken actually has one of the best overall balances of attacks, and its miles away from the MKX/NRS implementation.

In Tekken, the majority of attacks that grant +frames are highs. The mids that grant +frames generally either require setup or are on the slower side (like Lili's d/f+3, which is 20 frames for +3 on block). Moves that are unreactable are punishable. Even taking the risk to throw out a d+4 unseeable low poke will get you punished with a while standing 4.

I know Foxy brought up some Tekken comparisons to MK, but just wanted to clear this one up!

@iMileena

Yup. You nailed it dead on.

 

[FL Rushdown]

Crossups are fucking dumb, lol. At least if I lose on 50/50s I can see what I did wrong.
Getting hit with an ambiguous crossup is like getting hit with an OH that looks like a sweep.

A cross up is no more "dumb" than any other mixup, and they're completely tractable. At least with a cross up you have options to avoid it, And it results in the opponent putting themselves in the corner if they fail. As it was previously stated cross ups require pinpoint spacing and equally precise timing so the only way they happen is on hard knockdown with a setup, ir if your opponents spacing is way better than yours.

Besides cross ups are pretty limited so if it looks like a sweep to you it's because your matchup knowledge is weak.

 

[ZeroEffect]

A cross up is no more "dumb" than any other mixup, and they're completely tractable. At least with a cross up you have options to avoid it, And it results in the opponent putting themselves in the corner if they fail. As it was previously stated cross ups require pinpoint spacing and equally precise timing so the only way they happen is on hard knockdown with a setup, ir if your opponents spacing is way better than yours.

Depends on the game, the character, and the setup. Some streetfighter characters only needed a sweep. You can have ambiguous crossups midscreen too. (ie: Ibuki, Gen, Blanka in Sf4). MvC3 has damn near unblockables depending on assists, teleports, etc. I get that there's some spacing/timing involved, but my point is that you can be hit on one side when it looks like the other side. The visual cue is exactly the same.

Besides cross ups are pretty limited so if it looks like a sweep to you it's because your matchup knowledge is weak.

...Wha? I said that it's the same thing as having an OH that visually looks like a sweep. Not a crossup looking like a sweep.
Matchup knowledge has little to do with whether you blocked an incoming attack on the right side.

 

[FL Rushdown]

The matchup knowledge is knowing where the cross up hits. Even the most ambiguous of cross ups will always hit the same spot depending on spacing. Some cross ups can be straight up 50/50 guesses depending on which version of a special someone uses, but again those are usually unsafe or cause a complete loss of pressure when blocked. I dunno how you can say cross ups are dumb and then be fine with unreactable 50:50s, that can be made safe to go into more unreactable 50/50s.

This isn't about wether or not cross ups are "dumb" it's about wether or not MK has simpler mechanics. I would say the block button is a simpler mechanic than directional blocking. Feel free to disagree, but you're wrong if you do.

 

[KidVanDal]

No. That's what I was saying. MK compensates for its simpler offensive mechanics by making the mechanics it does have incredibly strong. 50/50s exist in pretty much every fighting game, but MK has the strongest ones around.

Yeah, I think that was what Eddy meant too though.