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What makes mk so simple?

iMileena

"I will cut a hole in you"
Just need the FGC veterans of any game in this thread (or anyone who is knowledgeable about fighting games)

Ok been on my mind and i just wanted to ask what makes Mortal Kombat so simple in comparison to street fighter,Tekken,and also GG & kof. Ive noticed alot of discussions about mk in the fgc and they always say mk is the "easiest" when it comes to this topic.

Is it the combos? Footsies? The different techniques other games have that we dont?
Please someone tell me what's the difference:-( cause i would like to know what we have that's just so different from them.

love you kthx
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
You can play tekken and MK on basically the same principles, I think the complexity of tekken is mainly in the movement, as well as having to know a million different moves and punishes.

If tekken was simplified to a 2D plane and characters kept their most useful moves, you'd probably have a game just like MK tbh.

I personally think KI is more simple than MK, but that's just my opinion.

Then there's also the argument, do the people calling it simple really know what they're talking about? Cause I'm 100% certain our game is dominated by NRS players, there's no top level SF players with enough knowledge about our game to properly compare.
 

iMileena

"I will cut a hole in you"
You can play tekken and MK on basically the same principles, I think the complexity of tekken is mainly in the movement, as well as having to know a million different moves and punishes.

If tekken was simplified to a 2D plane and characters kept their most useful moves, you'd probably have a game just like MK tbh.
Wow never thought of it like that. People make it seem tekken is complex lol
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
The anime games are a different type of fighter within themselves. Compared to most 2D and 3D fighting games.



-Easy execution for the most part

-Lack of defensive options making it easier to start and sustain offense.

-Overwhelming abusable advancing safe fast normals by many characters limiting depth of strategies. (NRS come on bruh)

-Overwhelming abusable specials by many characters limiting depth of strategies.

-Full combo starting unreactable 50/50s that can be made safe on block, or even plus on block for a second attempt, or third attempt at times that lead to high damage and advantageous pressure after.

-Way too much armor.

-Too little consistent AA's.

-Too many plus frames on block leading to 40%.

-Corner too deathly and too easy to get them in it.

-Oki strong and easy when opponent has no meter.

-etc



There's a lot of reasons, but when all these things combine it gives people an argument. Not saying I fully agree, but I understand.
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
I would say the stigma that MK is a simple fighter stems from how simple and effective the offense can be sometimes. 50/50s that lead to 30% life can make it feel like you loss in 3-4 guesses. I find MKx to be more on the ridiculous side of fighting games. Similarly to how crazy marvel can get. Both games have their complexities but it's just in a different area. @A F0xy Grampa brought up Tekken and the complexity from that game came from the movement, positioning, and amount of attacks that covered a bunch of possible scenarios. Throw in some of the stance switching and just frames Tekken have and you start to see that you can't compare Tekken to other fighters and that's how it should be.

So for me, if the "easy" parts of MKx comes from how easy damage is to get sometimes. But I think there are subtleties and other deep mechanics it has just from being a fighter. Are they my ideal mechanics? no. But I wouldn't call the game the easiest. I think it's never fair to compare games like that unless they are just fundamentally easy.

@SaltShaker pretty much went into detail what I meant.

Actually speaking on armor and damage. I think the game could be better if damage was toned down across the board. Say 25-30% with bar instead of 30-40% (excluding the high damaging extremes some characters get.) Also if wakeups gave increased scaling to the following combo so their be more ebb & flow besides trading 30% combos on wakeup.
 

iMileena

"I will cut a hole in you"
-Overwhelming abusable advancing safe fast normals by many characters limiting depth of strategies. (NRS come on bruh)



-Full combo starting unreactable 50/50s that can be made safe on block, or even plus on block for a second attempt, or third attempt at times that lead to high damage and advantageous pressure after.

Can someone explain these two lol im not understanding:-(
 

iMileena

"I will cut a hole in you"
-Lack of defensive options making it easier to start and sustain offense

yes i agree, i think mk is way too offense based. Would be nice if they worked on having the game having stronger defense with the characters. When i think about it i would like nrs to think try to balance off. And def. cause some of these characters jp and jk are ridiculous in range and if it whiffs they still can block smh for example KL j2 is just a nightmare ESPECIALLY with scrubs
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Can someone explain these two lol im not understanding:-(
In those two examples, someone who is used to playing another fighter(s) might think those concepts make it overly simplistic compared to what they're used to. I'll explain.

-Most fighters you have your go-to moves/strings/normals. No one uses an entire movelist. This is easier, more abusable, and stronger in MKX compared to most fighters. Say I'm playing Ryu in SF. I have things like low crouch kick and stuff for good pokes. In Tekken I have D/F1 with Lee. Etc. But in MKX, I have safe, fast, advancing normals that lead to combo or block cancel pressure. D'Vorah F1, Cassie B1, Johnny F3, etc. Normals that poke from 1/3 away from the screen into advantageous sutuations are the norm in MKX, so if you come from another game where spacing and timing is more scientific you may look down on Cassie just B1'ing Her way in.

-In a lot of fighters not as many characters have 50/50's, and when they do usually one option is impossible to be made safe. Say in Tekken my main is Bryan since T5DR. I have decent low pokes, but my main low launcher is full combo punishable on block by the cast and also reactable because it's slow. So I have to really open you up to land it, and take a big risk using it. Now turn to MKX, where someone like say Erron can do a OH Low into EX Grenade, and you blocked Both options but he had two bars he can go for another 50/50. Or Quan Chi where if you block the 50/50 perfectly he can just EX Rune and go for another 50/50 which is two 50/50 attempts for 1 bar, or 3 50/50 attempts for 2 bars. Standing there guessing your way out of multiple 50/50 attempts because you're holding plus frames isn't the norm in a lot of games, so can be looked down upon by players of another game.
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Can someone explain these two lol im not understanding:-(
-Overwhelming abusable advancing safe fast normals by many characters limiting depth of strategies. (NRS come on bruh)
Stuff like Cassie's b124, Kotal's f12, Kung Lao's B324. They're quick, cover space, and are safe. Sometimes character's can just cancel into a safe special (Raiden's b34 is unsafe but I just confirm the block into safe shocker.) The limiting depth of strategies part is because since it's one tool that covers many aspects (range, speed, safeness, sometimes combo starters, punishes, etc.), you don't have to expand much on the way you're playing. I find that part to be semi true. Cassie for example I find myself using b12 a lot more than I find myself using Kotal's f12. Cassie's string does more stuff than Kotal's so if I want really get anything done with Kotal Khan I'd have to do more stuff.

-Full combo starting unreactable 50/50s that can be made safe on block, or even plus on block for a second attempt, or third attempt at times that lead to high damage and advantageous pressure after.
50/50 usually being a overhead/Low mixup. Cassie for example can do either overhead or low that leads into the same BnB combo for the same damage. On hit or Block just cancel into ex flipkick. midscreen of course. Some characters can be plus (Quan's Ex Rune, I think Erron Black's Sand Grenade), so they can pressure the advantage (Lui Kang's MB flying kick) or even continue a mixup (Quan's EX Rune is +14 IIRC but I think there is a gap in between both rune shots)
 

SylverRye

Official Loop Kang Main
The anime games are a different type of fighter within themselves. Compared to most 2D and 3D fighting games.



-Easy execution for the most part

-Lack of defensive options making it easier to start and sustain offense.

-Overwhelming abusable advancing safe fast normals by many characters limiting depth of strategies. (NRS come on bruh)

-Overwhelming abusable specials by many characters limiting depth of strategies.

-Full combo starting unreactable 50/50s that can be made safe on block, or even plus on block for a second attempt, or third attempt at times that lead to high damage and advantageous pressure after.

-Way too much armor.

-Too little consistent AA's.

-Too many plus frames on block leading to 40%.

-Corner too deathly and too easy to get them in it.

-Oki strong and easy when opponent has no meter.

-etc



There's a lot of reasons, but when all these things combine it gives people an argument. Not saying I fully agree, but I understand.
This. Coupled with run cancel movest that are insanely plus on block. Those are the reasons why people think is is easy or "scrubby". I have fun with the game dont i cant/dont pretend like it doesn't have all that. Also, dial combos make people think its very easyon execution. Which it is for the most part
 

navaroNe

Nobody's afraid of Bruce Wayne
one thing I would change about MKX is how close you are to your opponent at all times, feels like it should be zoomed out a bit and maybe make the stages bigger. I think that would help the defensive portion of this game come out a bit more as you would have more time to react and it would help against all the advancing strings there are
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
This. Coupled with run cancel movest that are insanely plus on block. Those are the reasons why people think is is easy or "scrubby". I have fun with the game dont i cant/dont pretend like it doesn't have all that. Also, dial combos make people think its very easyon execution. Which it is for the most part
Yea that's why I had to just say etc after a while. Cancel pressure being highly plus into high damage armor breaking combos or massive chip damage, like Buya said with WU's that lead to 30%+, etc. There's a ton of examples. When all these things combine into one game is where another community member may say "wtf are they playing". I agree with some arguments but not all, but I definitely understand why they say it coming from over a decade of Tekken myself.
 

SylverRye

Official Loop Kang Main
Stuff like Cassie's b124, Kotal's f12, Kung Lao's B324. They're quick, cover space, and are safe. Sometimes character's can just cancel into a safe special (Raiden's b34 is unsafe but I just confirm the block into safe shocker.) The limiting depth of strategies part is because since it's one tool that covers many aspects (range, speed, safeness, sometimes combo starters, punishes, etc.), you don't have to expand much on the way you're playing. I find that part to be semi true. Cassie for example I find myself using b12 a lot more than I find myself using Kotal's f12. Cassie's string does more stuff than Kotal's so if I want really get anything done with Kotal Khan I'd have to do more stuff.


50/50 usually being a overhead/Low mixup. Cassie for example can do either overhead or low that leads into the same BnB combo for the same damage. On hit or Block just cancel into ex flipkick. midscreen of course. Some characters can be plus (Quan's Ex Rune, I think Erron Black's Sand Grenade), so they can pressure the advantage (Lui Kang's MB flying kick) or even continue a mixup (Quan's EX Rune is +14 IIRC but I think there is a gap in between both rune shots)
How could you mention forward advancing strings and miss tremor and jax broooo lol. They are the WORST offenders. And that erron black string that walks him forward lol
 

iMileena

"I will cut a hole in you"
Stuff like Cassie's b124, Kotal's f12, Kung Lao's B324. They're quick, cover space, and are safe. Sometimes character's can just cancel into a safe special (Raiden's b34 is unsafe but I just confirm the block into safe shocker.) The limiting depth of strategies part is because since it's one tool that covers many aspects (range, speed, safeness, sometimes combo starters, punishes, etc.), you don't have to expand much on the way you're playing. I find that part to be semi true. Cassie for example I find myself using b12 a lot more than I find myself using Kotal's f12. Cassie's string does more stuff than Kotal's so if I want really get anything done with Kotal Khan I'd have to do more stuff.
I never knew how harsh this was looked upon to players from other games lol i do find myself always looking for the longest range moves in a characters moveset when i play other games lol which is good! But VERY risky in other games, for example, DOA5 i main christe. Her moves that can reach the farthest are her most punishable moves lol which is what im not used to in playing fighting games, but as in mk cassies b1 can be easily cancelled into a safe special which is kind of sad :(
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Yea that's why I had to just say etc after a while. Cancel pressure being highly plus into high damage armor breaking combos or massive chip damage, like Buya said with WU's that lead to 30%+, etc. There's a ton of examples. When all these things combine into one game is where another community member may say "wtf are they playing". I agree with some arguments but not all, but I definitely understand why they say it coming from over a decade of Tekken myself.
I remember being the first of my few fighting game friends to get into Injustice. I showed them some moves and one of them pointed out "Why is everything an overhead or low?" Asking about the Ex specials. Then I hit him with Ares EX Blast for the win and scream GUESS WHAT? OVERHEAD That game did seem to have a lot of mixup potential you don't really see elsewhere.

Idk. Just a thought on some "oddities" that NRS does.

How could you mention forward advancing strings and miss tremor and jax broooo lol. They are the WORST offenders. And that erron black string that walks him forward lol
I hate Jax so I block all memories of playing against him until someone picks him at character select. Then they all just come rushing back to me.

I don't find Tremor to be that bad since his stuff is high. (Not as usable.)

I don't really know EB like that but yeah, if it's the 21122 string you're talking about. F that dumbass string.

And I play Cassie and Kotal. And I always remember one match where Foxy did like 5 b32 staggers into grab. Well he does that for multiple matches.
 

iMileena

"I will cut a hole in you"
How could you mention forward advancing strings and miss tremor and jax broooo lol. They are the WORST offenders. And that erron black string that walks him forward lol

Jax's f2 string is SO annoying lol then its has advantage on the second hit lol i wish nrs could at leave leave a gap or have it left unsafe but they'll never happen :/
 

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
Now turn to MKX, where someone like say Erron can do a OH Low into EX Grenade, and you blocked Both options but he had two bars he can go for another 50/50. Or Quan Chi where if you block the 50/50 perfectly he can just EX Rune and go for another 50/50 which is two 50/50 attempts for 1 bar, or 3 50/50 attempts for 2 bars. Standing there guessing your way out of multiple 50/50 attempts because you're holding plus frames isn't the norm in a lot of games, so can be looked down upon by players of another game.
While I do get your point, both of those can be backdashed or armored through, and if they finish the string they're both punishable.
 

SylverRye

Official Loop Kang Main
Jax's f2 string is SO annoying lol then its has advantage on the second hit lol i wish nrs could at leave leave a gap or have it left unsafe but they'll never happen :/
The first hit of f2 is a high iirc, but yeah it comes out so fast you cant really really react unless you make a hard read. Ive had jax players knock me down and run and do f22 so it will catch me on block. Of course i delay or armor but that goes to show you how a lot of players pick up bad habits. Or say tanya for instance, a strategy with her (and most of the cast) is to combo you into a hard knock down, stand over you and start doing a string so that when you get up it catches you and you're stuck blocking. Its fine in mkx i guess but yeah other communities think things like that are "scrubby" lol
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
While I do get your point, both of those can be backdashed or armored through, and if they finish the string they're both punishable.
Yea I know there are ways out, but then when you show you know they start baiting and then you're guessing to block or not which is still guessing on the odds of escape or block. It's an entire situation that doesn't exist most of the times in other games.
 

iMileena

"I will cut a hole in you"
Since this is to my attention .. one reason mileena is a mid tier would he because her lack of adv. long range strings (except for her F214 string and B12 which are both punishable) and also can be poked from a good range. if they were plus frames or safe id think she'd have way more potential.
 

iMileena

"I will cut a hole in you"
The first hit of f2 is a high iirc, but yeah it comes out so fast you cant really really react unless you make a hard read. Ive had jax players knock me down and run and do f22 so it will catch me on block. Of course i delay or armor but that goes to show you how a lot of players pick up bad habits. Or say tanya for instance, a strategy with her (and most of the cast) is to combo you into a hard knock down, stand over you and start doing a string so that when you get up it catches you and you're stuck blocking. Its fine in mkx i guess but yeah other communities think things like that are "scrubby" lol
I find it very annoying after the knowdown some people abuse the hell out of unpunishable strings for "pressure" Thats what pisses me off the most from this game lol and online makes it no better lol im still unsure why people still even abuse Tanya's specials they are all really punishable lol but im not going to stop them from being risky ;)