Question - Kobu Jutsu What if b1

[Awkward Sloth]

"What if b1..."

DIDN'T FUCKING EXIST?

Then you'd be Pyro Tanya. A B tier variation. Have more gaps in your strings, no pressure, lose to other zoning characters and be very underwhelming.

 

[SoapBar]

"What if b1..."

DIDN'T FUCKING EXIST?

/fucking thread

Gimme that patch so I can watch this woman fall off the nerf free and hit every branch on the way down.

 

[KGA Prosaic]

Actually no need for me to make a video when pig has made one on this site describing everything I've mentioned. I've faught some strong players that always punish me when I delay a rekka then IIve faught some that always gets hit with a mid overhead. A 9 frame mid isnt some meta destroyer. I notice you guys like to include reptiles in your examples. Did you know he always has a 9f mid that the second hit is an overhead? Lol.

 

[ESP-_BLACK]

secret reptile nerf thread

 

[Rip Torn]

Actually no need for me to make a video when pig has made one on this site describing everything I've mentioned. I've faught some strong players that always punish me when I delay a rekka then IIve faught some that always gets hit with a mid overhead. A 9 frame mid isnt some meta destroyer. I notice you guys like to include reptiles in your examples. Did you know he always has a 9f mid that the second hit is an overhead? Lol.

We already knew about that option select that pig showed in that video. It's nothing new. Nobody is disputing that. We are talking about the risk reward of the option select and how it is usually in Tanya's favor.

If Pig wanted to show the risk reward, he'd have to record Tanya doing 1 rekka and baiting armor, Tanya doing 3 rekkas without delay, Tanya only delaying the last rekka but ex'ing it, and tanya delaying only the third rekka. Also, there is tech out there that shows how you make rekkas completely safe without gaps and without ex'ing the last rekka.

Considering all those options, Tanya would do more chip and build more meter while staying safe and occasionally breaking/baiting rising karma for a full combo.

We don't even have a training mode capable of randomizing all those options, so you'd have to do it against a human.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Actually I think he's right, rekkas can be punished by Lao with option select reversals.

I was talking about EX rekka breaking armor. That is pretty basic Tanya meta lol.

Rip's point was that KUng Lao and Cassie are the only two characters that can consistently punish the gaps. It is really hard to punish them with anyone else.

 

[omooba]

i don't even think she's that good anymore after seeing pig of the hut's video

 

[ESP-_BLACK]

everytime i say tanya not that good i get blown up

 

[stamatis]

If b1 becomes a high,then she's dead.

 

[ESP-_BLACK]

just nerf rekka.... honestly she fine the way she is.her pressure not even that good

 

[THTB]

Actually no need for me to make a video when pig has made one on this site describing everything I've mentioned. I've faught some strong players that always punish me when I delay a rekka then IIve faught some that always gets hit with a mid overhead. A 9 frame mid isnt some meta destroyer. I notice you guys like to include reptiles in your examples. Did you know he always has a 9f mid that the second hit is an overhead? Lol.

Lol Reptile's f4 is 9 frames, but it doesn't reach nearly as far as Tanya's b1, doesn't have a rekka mixup game to back it up, is -6 on the second and third hits, and his way of adding a low into the mixup leads to no actual damage if it hits. It does have the ability to be +8 on block with a bar, but that's probably the only edge it actually has over Tanya b1. There's not really that great of a comparison.

Also, there are a small handful of characters who actually can punish the first rekka on block with their armored reversal. Tanya can also make a gapless, delayed rekka that's still safe anyway, sooooooooo...

Rekkas are the dumb part. I do think they are an interesting design, though, in all honesty. It's just she also has other shit to work with is the issue, so they don't fit.

 

[The Celebrity]

People in this thread are devaluing what a character can do with ADVANTAGE. All I read on that second page was "not punishable", "can only do a measly 2%", "way too safe", etc... This is MKX, you're punished for blocking against over half the cast.

Lets run through it a bit.

Tanya does 1 rekka, now -7 against Liu Kang. Liu Kang can punish this with F1 if frame perfect but "there's human error we're not gods". You're right, so normally a Liu Kang player is going to go right into F213 which between the block pressures, cancels, staggers, could be anywhere from 15% straight block damage to the entire round lost. Lets put Quan in his shoes now. How is he supposed to deal with the Rekkas? He can only D1 and it does a measly 2% damage?!!?!. Yeah but he gains frame advantage, providing him with a 50/50 if properly spaced, where if it hits she could possibly be dead. Even on block she could die because she'll have to guess a few more times after that. These are examples from the top tier characters, but I sure as shit don't want High Tech Jacqui or Reptile for example hitting my block either.

What I'm getting at is that this is MKX, where often times losing your frame advantage and being forced to block can be just as bad as being unsafe.

 

[KGA Prosaic]

Lol Reptile's f4 is 9 frames, but it doesn't reach nearly as far as Tanya's b1, doesn't have a rekka mixup game to back it up, is -6 on the second and third hits, and his way of adding a low into the mixup leads to no actual damage if it hits. It does have the ability to be +8 on block with a bar, but that's probably the only edge it actually has over Tanya b1. There's not really that great of a comparison.

Also, there are a small handful of characters who actually can punish the first rekka on block with their armored reversal. Tanya can also make a gapless, delayed rekka that's still safe anyway, sooooooooo...

Rekkas are the dumb part. I do think they are an interesting design, though, in all honesty. It's just she also has other shit to work with is the issue, so they don't fit.

I wouldnt downplay Reptile, mate. Reptile has an answer to everything Tanya. F4 is a great normal for all sorts of things. Jailing, creating mixups while invisible, punishing with his optimal damage, and a few occasions, break the opponent armor.
What I'm getting at is f4 is as good as b1 is everyway. Except how you mention, he can make himself +8 while she can only make herself +2

 

[KGA Prosaic]

People in this thread are devaluing what a character can do with ADVANTAGE. All I read on that second page was "not punishable", "can only do a measly 2%", "way too safe", etc... This is MKX, you're punished for blocking against over half the cast.

Lets run through it a bit.

Tanya does 1 rekka, now -7 against Liu Kang. Liu Kang can punish this with F1 if frame perfect but "there's human error we're not gods". You're right, so normally a Liu Kang player is going to go right into F213 which between the block pressures, cancels, staggers, could be anywhere from 15% straight block damage to the entire round lost. Lets put Quan in his shoes now. How is he supposed to deal with the Rekkas? He can only D1 and it does a measly 2% damage?!!?!. Yeah but he gains frame advantage, providing him with a 50/50 if properly spaced, where if it hits she could possibly be dead. Even on block she could die because she'll have to guess a few more times after that. These are examples from the top tier characters, but I sure as shit don't want High Tech Jacqui or Reptile for example hitting my block either.

What I'm getting at is that this is MKX, where often times losing your frame advantage and being forced to block can be just as bad as being unsafe.

I couldn't have said it better, people just think because b1 is a good poke they should have a way to koll her for using it.

 

[dribirut]

So much stupid.. Smh

 

[Paul the Octopus]

Lol at all the Tanya down players bringing up Pig's video as reasons why she isn't that good.

This is hilarious because it seems like:
1) The Pig tech was mostly new to the Tanya downplayers. Most other people already knew this tech and still considered Tanya ridiculous, but Tanya requires so little game knowledge and labbing that many (not all of course) Tanya players themselves paradoxically knew the least about their own character
2) Pig himself continues to say Tanya is ridiculous and would not agree whatsoever that his video means Tanya is anywhere near fair. The point of his video was "here's some tech to make Tanya slightly less unbearable" ... not "here's some tech that neutralizes Tanya, problem solved"

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

If you are option selecting correctly youll block if the rekka string is true.
7f start up moves punish this as well.
6f pokes - liu, jax, ermac, kotal, cassie, reptile, quan, raiden, Jacquie
7f pokes - almost everyone has atleast a 7 frame poke.

holy shit i must really get the shit end of the stick then since the only characters i play at a (somewhat) high level are takeda and (somtimes rarely anymore RIP my waifu kenshi) kenshi

 

[JDM]

Whenever I go to random forums on tym I honestly have a hard time figuring out whos downplaying or trolling. I don't get why people are so adamant about defending their top tier characters, lol. Its actually pretty funny.

 

[KGA Prosaic]

Lol at all the Tanya down players bringing up Pig's video as reasons why she isn't that good.

This is hilarious because it seems like:
1) The Pig tech was mostly new to the Tanya downplayers. Most other people already knew this tech and still considered Tanya ridiculous, but Tanya requires so little game knowledge and labbing that many (not all of course) Tanya players themselves paradoxically knew the least about their own character
2) Pig himself continues to say Tanya is ridiculous and would not agree whatsoever that his video means Tanya is anywhere near fair. The point of his video was "here's some tech to make Tanya slightly less unbearable" ... not "here's some tech that neutralizes Tanya, problem solved"

Im assuming youre talking to me by the sound of your sort of bitchy attitude. Lol, Pig tech isnt new by no means. B1 doesnt jail nor is rekka delay free. That make me a downplayer stating this? Alright. Lol. Option select isnt a new concept.

 

[KGA Prosaic]

holy shit i must really get the shit end of the stick then since the only characters i play at a (somewhat) high level are takeda and (somtimes rarely anymore RIP my waifu kenshi) kenshi

Well, yeah haha. You actually named the two slowest members of the cast.

 

[GLoRToR]

b1 is fine, the rekka delay crap is what needs to go.
Burn meter to make it safe like everybody else on the cast.

 

[Roko1985]

What would be the nerf?

To take that cancer variation out from the game!

 

[TarkatanDentist]

IMO Kobu Jutsu only needs slight nerfs. Specifically, make b1 hit double mid (because it really doesn't need to have an overhead hit), have fixed block disadvantage on delayed rekkas like others have said and... actually, those two changes alone would probably be enough.

On a personal level I also reckon that only the first rekka attack should build meter upon being used, but I can't imagine that particular opinion being too popular on here...

 

[Metzos]

If they nerf the blockstun of the rekkas, character will become shit, if they make the 1st hit of b1 a high, the character will still be viable at high lvl but will require a brain to do so. B1 being a mid is the problem here, not the blockstun of the rekkas.

 

[THTB]

I wouldnt downplay Reptile, mate. Reptile has an answer to everything Tanya. F4 is a great normal for all sorts of things. Jailing, creating mixups while invisible, punishing with his optimal damage, and a few occasions, break the opponent armor.
What I'm getting at is f4 is as good as b1 is everyway. Except how you mention, he can make himself +8 while she can only make herself +2

Whoever said I'm downplaying him? I know how good he is. I just know f4 isn't nearly as fucked up as b1.