Question - Kobu Jutsu What if b1

[KGA Prosaic]

I dont know what I'm thinking. Obviously people who dont use Tanya know exactly what she needs to be

 

[Rip Torn]

LBSH, if you can OS through her wreckers, her pressure is already severely worse. I don't think people would be saying she's so overpowered if they actually knew and applied OS'ing through the wreckers.

The option select through the rekkas is not that easy. You must let go of block and input your reversal within a few frames then hold block again. If your timing is off at all, you will eat a good chunk of damage. Also, if she stops after her first rekka,, she is safe and you may just waste a bar. If she ex the last rekka, you will waste a bar and get launched.

It was much worse for Tanya when you could hold block and mash non ex moves like Kung Lao and Cassie. They had a 100% safe option select/punish for rekkas. Not anymore since the last patch.

 

[KGA Prosaic]

The option select through the rekkas is not that easy. You must let go of block and input your reversal within a few frames then hold block again. If your timing is off at all, you will eat a good chunk of damage. Also, if she stops after her first rekka,, she is safe and you may just waste a bar. If she ex the last rekka, you will waste a bar and get launched.

It was much worse for Tanya when you could hold block and mash non ex moves like Kung Lao and Cassie. They had a 100% safe option select/punish for rekkas. Not anymore since the last patch.

Everything you just said was wrong.
Learning how to Option Select isn't some huge execution challenge.
Her first rekka is -7, punishable by a third of the cast.
ex rekka doesnt drain meter?
Lao amd Cassie can still option select their reversals for free during that mu.

Idk, man. I just dont think you know anything about Tanya

 

[Rip Torn]

Everything you just said was wrong.
Learning how to Option Select isn't some huge execution challenge.
Her first rekka is -7, punishable by a third of the cast.
ex rekka doesnt drain meter?
Lao amd Cassie can still option select their reversals for free during that mu.

Idk, man. I just dont think you know anything about Tanya

Actually, everything you just said is wrong...

A third of the cast does not have 6 frame reversals.
The last rekka when meter burned has 2 hits and eats armor.
Lao and Cassie can't option select their normal reversals while holding block like they used to. That particular option select was removed from the game.

Get you facts straight. Hit the lab then get back to me.

 

[KGA Prosaic]

Actually, everything you just said is wrong...

A third of the cast does not have 6 frame reversals.
The last rekka when meter burned has 2 hits and eats armor.
Lao and Cassie can't option select their normal reversals while holding block like they used to. That particular option select was removed from the game.

Get you facts straight. Hit the lab then get back to me.

Ive spent hours upon hours in the lab wih Tanya. Rekka is -7 not -6. I can name 5 people on the top of my head that can punish this. Lao amd Cassie can certainly option select their reversals through tanya's delay rekka. 3rd of ex rekka breaking armor isnt a thing. Stop trying to say thats a thing that happens

 

[Paul the Octopus]

Everything you just said was wrong.
Learning how to Option Select isn't some huge execution challenge.
Her first rekka is -7, punishable by a third of the cast.
ex rekka doesnt drain meter?
Lao amd Cassie can still option select their reversals for free during that mu.

Idk, man. I just dont think you know anything about Tanya

Dude -7 is not, in practice, punishable by anywhere near a third of the cast. I do not count just frame punishes from characters with 6 frame jabs. And Reptiles 6 frame ex slide also doesn't do enough damage to discourage this at all. If I were Tanya id take the 8% from this and go back and do more rekkas and by the second set of them I'd be even in damage thanks to chip and I'd have built some bar. The only ones she really needs to fear are KL and Cassie imo.

Also if characters are option selecting armour this only makes their reversal not come out if Tanya does no delay between rekkas. If Tanya stops after the first rekka it will come out and Tanya can punish. Risk reward for option selecting against Tanya isn't that great, unlike the Erron black one, which really shuts down EB.

 

[Airvidal]

Dude -7 is not, in practice, punishable by anywhere near a third of the cast. I do not count just frame punishes from characters with 6 frame jabs. And Reptiles 6 frame ex slide also doesn't do enough damage to discourage this at all. If I were Tanya id take the 8% from this and go back and do more rekkas and by the second set of them I'd be even in damage thanks to chip and I'd have built some bar. The only ones she really needs to fear are KL and Cassie imo.

Also if characters are option selecting armour this only makes their reversal not come out if Tanya does no delay between rekkas. If Tanya stops after the first rekka it will come out and Tanya can punish. Risk reward for option selecting against Tanya isn't that great, unlike the Erron black one, which really shuts down EB.

Especially if they do a gapless yet safe set of rekkas.

 

[KGA Prosaic]

If you are option selecting correctly youll block if the rekka string is true.
7f start up moves punish this as well.
6f pokes - liu, jax, ermac, kotal, cassie, reptile, quan, raiden, Jacquie
7f pokes - almost everyone has atleast a 7 frame poke.

When fighting Tanya, the ideal time is to option select through her second gap.
How the rekkas works is the final gap has to be delayed to be made safe meterless. Is she stops after thr first rekka -7 then pressure again with a poke you are essentially getting caught with an atleast 14 frame gap. Aince her b2 is her fastest poke at 7fs. The second rekka on the other hand is negative in the teens. I cant exactly remember the number. She will not stop rekkas on the secons cause if she does it's full combo punished. Ans if she goes into her third hit of rekka without delaying it, it's also unsafe.
Basic idea on defensinf against Tanya.
low/high/low OS/Wait/React then Punish
even ex rekka at the end can be backdash and whiffed punished.

 

[Awkward Sloth]

As someone who plays a version of Tanya without a b1 she really gets a lot worse.

Mostly Highs and her main mid isnt a true mid. It's low profileable and the second hit is a high against like 60% of the cast.

Mids are really good in this game. I don't use Kobu but I at least want my character to have a good mid in one variation to go to.

 

[Pan1cMode]

As someone who plays a version of Tanya without a b1 she really gets a lot worse.

Mostly Highs and her main mid isnt a true mid. It's low profileable and the second hit is a high against like 60% of the cast.

Mids are really good in this game. I don't use Kobu but I at least want my character to have a good mid in one variation to go to.

Exactly this. I started in pyro and dear god I wish I had b1.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

If you are option selecting correctly youll block if the rekka string is true.
7f start up moves punish this as well.
6f pokes - liu, jax, ermac, kotal, cassie, reptile, quan, raiden, Jacquie
7f pokes - almost everyone has atleast a 7 frame poke.

When fighting Tanya, the ideal time is to option select through her second gap.
How the rekkas works is the final gap has to be delayed to be made safe meterless. Is she stops after thr first rekka -7 then pressure again with a poke you are essentially getting caught with an atleast 14 frame gap. Aince her b2 is her fastest poke at 7fs. The second rekka on the other hand is negative in the teens. I cant exactly remember the number. She will not stop rekkas on the secons cause if she does it's full combo punished. Ans if she goes into her third hit of rekka without delaying it, it's also unsafe.
Basic idea on defensinf against Tanya.
low/high/low OS/Wait/React then Punish
even ex rekka at the end can be backdash and whiffed punished.

It takes one frame to unblock in this game, so 7 frame *normals* do not punish a -7 move. Only 7 frame specials do. 6 frame normals can punish the first rekka, but you have a miniscule 1 frame gap to do this. Try this in practice mode with Jax. His 7 frame d1/d2 do not punish but his 6 frame jab does. The latter is quite hard.

And @Rip Torn is right. If you do ex rekka on the third hit, it will break a lot of armour. Try setting reptile to do ex claw reversal (an average speed reversal). If Tanya does no gap between the first two, small gap between the second and third, and ex third rekka, it will break Reptile's armour. And this move is safe (-2). And it also blows up the option select reversal, as the gap between the 2nd and 3rd will cause the armour to come out.

In turn, this makes the 2nd rekka much safer, as Tanya's opponent will be scared to punish the 2nd rekka or OS for fear of the 3rd ex rekka. By the way, it's only -11 so yes it's punishable but the opponent has to be on point.

The OS gives the defender options, but Tanya's rekkas are still extremely good IMO. This is not like Erron Black's 21122, which are completely castrated by the OS.

I'm not saying destroy Tanya as a character but kobu pressure is DUMB, even if you know your options against it. They should nerf this and buff the other variations.

 

[just_2swift]

LBSH, if you can OS through her wreckers, her pressure is already severely worse. I don't think people would be saying she's so overpowered if they actually knew and applied OS'ing through the wreckers.

I'd be happy if they changed b1 to mid, mid (she doesn't need an overhead there)

High mid

 

[Zoidberg747]

Ive spent hours upon hours in the lab wih Tanya. Rekka is -7 not -6. I can name 5 people on the top of my head that can punish this. Lao amd Cassie can certainly option select their reversals through tanya's delay rekka. 3rd of ex rekka breaking armor isnt a thing. Stop trying to say thats a thing that happens

You're wrong, he's right

-Someone whose played Tanya since she was released.

 

[Zoidberg747]

On topic we all know how b1 being a high affected Raiden. Not a good idea. They need to look at rekka chip or meter build.

 

[Cameronwinss]

Just pick Lao and spin anything that looks minus.

 

[RexyWrecks]

You're wrong, he's right

-Someone whose played Tanya since she was released.

Actually I think he's right, rekkas can be punished by Lao with option select reversals.

 

[RexyWrecks]

Simple. If tanya's b1 was high how good would her pressure be? (Serious question)

She works just like pre patch raiden, idk why u don't pick her up.

 

[The Highlander]

Yea she would be terrible because 2 being a high completely ruined Tremor...

 

[exflyingbooty]

• b+1 losing it's overhead, you have f+3/splits kick and you don't need that at all
• Her being a proper rekka character and get rid of delaying rekkas being safer. The mixup in itself is the god damn delayed rekka.

 

[Metzos]

So pretty much, Tanya players are saying to the rest of us to "lvl up". Hmm, nice one.

Perhaps you should count the human error factor as well? Tanya's 1st rekka is -7f on block, plus the fact it has a stupid block stun as well. This means you need 7f specials in order to punish her for a full combo (KL, CC), or just a meager punish (Reptile's slide etc) and 6f normals to punish it. Someone mentioned pokes.

So pretty much the only way to punish this, if you dont have a 7f special move, is with 2% dmg, while if Tanya's "mixup" succeeds i get hit with 38 to 40% dmg if she uses a bar, plus the wall carry. Not to mention the stupidly good meter build and chip damage she deals with the rekkas. Now, take that into account and add the rest of the tools she has. Also people forget that some pokes in this game, can be punished with a full combo on block. Ermac's d1 is a prime example. 6f startup and -10f on block. Tanya's mid b1 does that simply because its a 9f fucking mid with very good range.

Her B1 does what Raiden's F1 did before the nerfed it. It destroys the poking game. You hesitate to throw a poke, simply because, B1 wins against that. 2%< 40% dmg with 1 bar. And lets not forget the fact she has a godlike long range two hitting mid attack as well with a 13f startup (f2), which also leads to a shitload of damage with 1 bar, frame traps with ex projectile and the rekkas, excellent damage, excellent chip damage, excellent meter build.

The character has everything, pretty much, is easy as fuck to use and has almost zero risks.

People here, are not saying to nerf her into the ground, she is not like vanilla Raiden, they are saying to normalize her. Making the first hit of b1 a high, will still make her a dangerous opponent, since the OH comes out too fast, just not a dangerous braindead opponent. Her other tools are still very good.

If the Tanya player sees you have a bar, while he/she is pressuring you they can always finish their pressure with 1st rekka. If you delay to counter attack, its gg's to the same loop again. She might be -7f on block, but the blockstun of the rekka is stupid. If you delay for a split second its gg.

Bottom line, i dont wanna counter pick KL, CC or Jax to win against Tanya, i want all the cast to have a chance against her. Thats how a game is supposed to be balanced.

 

[KGA Prosaic]

Ive been playing this chacter since release as well. Lol. Do you guys need me to make videos of what im talkimg about?

 

[bdizzle2700]

Ive been playing this chacter since release as well. Lol. Do you guys need me to make videos of what im talkimg about?

Yes

 

[Eldriken]

"What if b1..."

DIDN'T FUCKING EXIST?

 

[ESP-_BLACK]

So pretty much, Tanya players are saying to the rest of us to "lvl up". Hmm, nice one.

Perhaps you should count the human error factor as well? Tanya's 1st rekka is -7f on block, plus the fact it has a stupid block stun as well. This means you need 7f specials in order to punish her for a full combo (KL, CC), or just a meager punish (Reptile's slide etc) and 6f normals to punish it. Someone mentioned pokes.

So pretty much the only way to punish this, if you dont have a 7f special move, is with 2% dmg, while if Tanya's "mixup" succeeds i get hit with 38 to 40% dmg if she uses a bar, plus the wall carry. Not to mention the stupidly good meter build and chip damage she deals with the rekkas. Now, take that into account and add the rest of the tools she has. Also people forget that some pokes in this game, can be punished with a full combo on block. Ermac's d1 is a prime example. 6f startup and -10f on block. Tanya's mid b1 does that simply because its a 9f fucking mid with very good range.

Her B1 does what Raiden's F1 did before the nerfed it. It destroys the poking game. You hesitate to throw a poke, simply because, B1 wins against that. 2%< 40% dmg with 1 bar. And lets not forget the fact she has a godlike long range two hitting mid attack as well with a 13f startup (f2), which also leads to a shitload of damage with 1 bar, frame traps with ex projectile and the rekkas, excellent damage, excellent chip damage, excellent meter build.

The character has everything, pretty much, is easy as fuck to use and has almost zero risks.

People here, are not saying to nerf her into the ground, she is not like vanilla Raiden, they are saying to normalize her. Making the first hit of b1 a high, will still make her a dangerous opponent, since the OH comes out too fast, just not a dangerous braindead opponent. Her other tools are still very good.

If the Tanya player sees you have a bar, while he/she is pressuring you they can always finish their pressure with 1st rekka. If you delay to counter attack, its gg's to the same loop again. She might be -7f on block, but the blockstun of the rekka is stupid. If you delay for a split second its gg.

Bottom line, i dont wanna counter pick KL, CC or Jax to win against Tanya, i want all the cast to have a chance against her. Thats how a game is supposed to be balanced.

A 9 frame mid definitely dont destroy the poking game. raiden had a 6 FRAME MID <!!!!!! now thats broken. Also thats how its suppose to be, you poke and i blocked it its my turn now. only real nerf she needs is just fix rekka block stun and and cant beplus off delay rekka

 

[Rip Torn]

Actually I think he's right, rekkas can be punished by Lao with option select reversals.

Yes, just about everyone can punish with an armored reversal. That wasn't the point. There was an option select WITHOUT armor before the last patch where you could hold block the entire time and mash out a regular reversal. If there was a gap, reversal spin or flip kick would come out. That option select made Cassie and Kung Lao able to safely punish rekkas no matter what. The only safe option for Tanya was to leave no gaps and end the last rekka with an ex. That was a braindead option select.

The other point was about baiting armor on the first rekka and blowing up armor on the last rekka. The current option select is much riskier. It's not a braindead 100% foolproof answer to rekkas.