General/Other - Unbreakable Unbreakable/Cyro confirmed buffs.

[I GOT HANDS]

I don't know, if Unbreakable had armoured hammers...plus, Cryomancer was doing 39% for a bar from B12...

The issue with unbreakable was the projectile parry not working properly, so he could be turtle out and the opponent could build a ton of meter, then break when he got in, and even if they didn't, he would only do 30% (From a JIP).

Also, he has now strings that bait a parry, and even if you use B12, it's -6 (Because of Grand Master) with the parry being 5 frames it makes it mental to parry.

He did 39 for a bar because he has cold blooded ended.

Unbreakable wouldn't be suddenly fixed by giving him an armour move, and that's all that Hammer changes. The rest of the character is still fatally flawed

 

[UsedForGlue]

He did 39 for a bar because he has cold blooded ended.

Unbreakable wouldn't be suddenly fixed by giving him an armour move, and that's all that Hammer changes. The rest of the character is still fatally flawed

Absolutely. Unbreakable doesn't need an armoured move.

It he needs a string where he can bait a parry better, something were the opponent thinks "its my turn now", like Buzzsaw Lao after low hat on block.

And of course, the aura should give advantage after canceled strings, the MB should have a damage boost, and the parry should recover instantly on a projectile.

 

[RM Ree]

Cryo should have an Erron Black Sword NJP. Again something I have never understood. Weapon specific variation for two characters, but only one of them gets the difference.

Well we did get the d2 sword for the 40 frame anti air , whatever that's used for... The sword njp would've made it a lot easier to njp after his f122 though, which would've been nice.

 

[LaidbackOne]

Absolutely. Unbreakable doesn't need an armoured move.

It he needs a string where he can bait a parry better, something were the opponent thinks "its my turn now", like Buzzsaw Lao after low hat on block.

And of course, the aura should give advantage after canceled strings, the MB should have a damage boost, and the parry should recover instantly on a projectile.

How do you see the issue that he basically doesn't have any AA capabilities?

 

[RM Ree]

B4 is a viable AA... Surprisingly enough

 

[Creepy00]

Sub's S1 is a pretty good AA that leads to 24%

If I'm not mistaken, it was ranked as the 2nd best AA in who "has the best AA in the game" thread or something among those lines. Although, I don't how accurate that may be.

 

[ColdSpine]

I wanna see sword njp
I wanna see cold blooded slightly + on hit
I wanna see cancellable hammer
I wanna see faster start up on air hammer
i wanna see faster start up on hammer
i wanna see good chip and chunk of meter built from blocked f122
I wanna see cryo more intimidating coz subzero with icey arms is one crazy mofo

Waiting for mondy patiently ..

 

[SithLaird]

I don't know, that would mean a whole new variation for Sub zero, which hasn't been done for any character yet, so it would be a stretch. But to be honest, I wouldn't complain.

Can't see it myself, but that's what I took from the cryptic clue.

 

[WakeUp DP]

I dont think unbreakable combos is what he needs.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Omg YESSSSSSSSSS count me in for every fucking variation across the board.

 

[Samsara]

All this talk about giving unbreakable cryo things----- just no. If they can't buff it without turning it into a watered down cryo don't bother. Unbreakable needs more cancelable strings to and from ice aura for improved pressure, some additional properties on aura (damage---- pehaps have ice ball do chip on block and reduce the scaling penalty), and reduced recovery on parry and allow it to be held liked kitana's

 

[UsedForGlue]

How do you see the issue that he basically doesn't have any AA capabilities?

Apart from standing 1, which is unreliable because of the strength of jumping attacks in this game.

Sub Zero not having a MB AA in Unbreakable isn't his issue, its his other fundamental moves that don't work properly...giving him his Ice Blast MB move won't fix unbreakable, and you could just be Grand Master or Cryo if you wanted to do that.

 

[UsedForGlue]

All this talk about giving unbreakable cryo things----- just no. If they can't buff it without turning it into a watered down cryo don't bother. Unbreakable needs more cancelable strings to and from ice aura for improved pressure, some additional properties on aura (damage---- pehaps have ice ball do chip on block and reduce the scaling penalty), and reduced recovery on parry and allow it to be held liked kitana's

Nobody really knows, but it will be interesting to see just want the game designers at NRS really think Sub Zero needs...I hope they understand the character as well as the players do.

 

[loogie]

EX Hammer is -9 on block...........

EDIT: Nvm I misread that. I haven't seen anyone asking EX hammer to be plus on block, that's wrong as well. You just shouldn't have an armored, plus on block launcher. That's just wrong.

I don't get you.
for example, if Cryo is intended to be rushdown but has no rushdown tools to continue pressure... then why a + on block launcher is a bad idea? Tremor in Crystalline has it, and he would dish 30+% damage into a setup and it's +2-3 on block or something.

there is nothing wrong, you are spending a bar of meter to continue your pressure and have a safe means of actually playing rushdown style.
yet there are characters that have +17, +12 moves on block (non armored) but virtually guarantee a guessing game after spending their bar and it would still be their turn to make the next move if opponent blocks.

if you say it's just 'wrong' then do explain why and give some rationale because I don't see it being 'wrong' or a 'bad' idea to give him an ex ground pound that gives him plus frames at the cost of spending a bar to continue offense.

 

[Marvaz]

I can't wait for this patch. Sub zero mains everywhere rejoice your about to watch some cool shit.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

PLEASE Subby Unbreak my Heart .... again! Thats the only Buff i realy want!

 

[ColdSpine]

I can't wait for this patch. Sub zero mains everywhere rejoice your about to watch some cool shit.

you have no idea how much im waiting for this patch, iam having a character crisis since day 1 and i fell in love with cryo since the first e3 , this is their last shot to get cryo right, i wanna pressure and hurt people real bad and wash away that dull image of subzero's players of popping clones and hiding behind them !

 

[RM Ree]

As far as pressure tools are concerned, his f122 string isn't awful. Decent speed, good range. That last swing of f122 comes out about the same time as f12>d4 or f12>throw. F12> b2 is slow, but if the opponent expects the whole string, it works. I don't think there's a gap in the string either so normal buttons will get the opponent launched.

Both the f12 and f122 are -5 though, so the lock down is weak. OS reversals (back dash, armor) basically ruin this gimmick for us.

Pretty good on hit too. If the chips are down and you know the current combo won't end the round like you need it too, the standing mix up after f12 on hit is great. Better than the b12 from the other 2 variations used in the same manner in terms of speed and variability (less transparent since f12... means an actual combo could be coming).

 

[Braindead]

As far as pressure tools are concerned, his f122 string isn't awful. Decent speed, good range. That last swing of f122 comes out about the same time as f12>d4 or f12>throw. F12> b2 is slow, but if the opponent expects the whole string, it works. I don't think there's a gap in the string either so normal buttons will get the opponent launched.

Both the f12 and f122 are -5 though, so the lock down is weak. OS reversals (back dash, armor) basically ruin this gimmick for us.

Pretty good on hit too. If the chips are down and you know the current combo won't end the round like you need it too, the standing mix up after f12 on hit is great. Better than the b12 from the other 2 variations used in the same manner in terms of speed and variability (less transparent since f12... means an actual combo could be coming).

F12 and F122 are 0 on block.

Or at least that's what the community-tested spreadsheet says.

 

[Braindead]

My gripe with F12 in general is that F1 is 15f, too slow IMO to be used in neutral, especially when you have d4, b12, and f33.

And if you wanted to have setups for it (on oki maybe), it won't doesn't give you anything outside Cryomancer. Which kindda sucks.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Let's wait till this afternoon.
Then we probably need new dedicated forums since sub may or may not be getting new shit

 

[RM Ree]

F12 and F122 are 0 on block.

Or at least that's what the community-tested spreadsheet says.

Dat NRS frame data. Thanks for the heads up, I had no idea. So that's gotta make it a little more useful. I mean it's not +, but we in there. Like @Braindead said though, 15 frames is pretty slow.

 

[boba_buster]

F12 is 0
F122 is -5

 

[Lokheit]

Dat NRS frame data. Thanks for the heads up, I had no idea. So that's gotta make it a little more useful. I mean it's not +, but we in there. Like @Braindead said though, 15 frames is pretty slow.

The "0" in the excel sheet for F122 is wrong and you can see they accidentally copy/pasted the numbers from F12. I told them about that IIRC but it wasn't changed.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I would like Unbreakable to get...

- Faster recovery for parrying a projectile and possibly build more meter if you successfully parry one.
- Faster startup for ex parry so that gaps can be parried.
- Make it so that parry freezes jumping attacks (no need for shatter then)
- Give some other property to aura. Maybe increased damage for sub while active.