This community does not want a balanced fighting game.

[webreg]

Ok so wouldn't it makes sense to do the Capcom way and let the game flesh out if it's being played globally and differently throughout, rather than making fixes practically every other month over stuff that there have been found solutions to afterwards? This is logic. Your reply contradicted itself between the first and second paragraph in terms of reasoning

Not necessarily. A successful game with a vibrant tournament scene and community does require certain external resources. Casual gamers are condemned and looked upon with scorn in this forum here. People don't seem to understand that the casual gamer and a broad appeal is the very foundation such a community as this is based upon. Simple mathematics. I assume less than 1% of all people buying/playing fighting games are actually members of a community such as this. If you have 100'000 people buying the game then you will have 1000 enthusiasts. if you have 1'000'000 people buying the game you'll have a potential for 100'000 hardcore fans (the progression actually isn't linear like this but you get the idea).

More importantly is the following though. The tournament scene relies on sponsors, sponsors rely on exposure, exposure needs consumers. If there are no casual gamers watching the streams then the sponsors are not interested in investing money, so the players can't afford the travel costs and entry fees and the tournament organizers are not able to provide prizes.

This means that any successful game absolutely needs to appeal to the casual gamer. That's the tightrope NRS has to walk. Casual gamers don't "adapt". They either have fun or they don't. So the game does need to be balanced regularly in order to maintain a significant player base. Street Fighter doesn't need this because they have reached critical mass a long time ago. Their base is now self-sustaining. MK and Injustice aren't.

 

[webreg]

...you need to seek something much more meaningful.

This here is my leisure time if I need a break "from something meaningful". I like to discuss topics I'm involved in and I'm currently playing Injustice. Would you rather have someone in this thread that hurls profanities and talks about how boring and shit this game is? I'm also into role-playing so if that is your wish I might actually try to comply and try it out.

 

[Akromaniac27]

This here is my leisure time if I need a break "from something meaningful". I like to discuss topics I'm involved in and I'm currently playing Injustice. Would you rather have someone in this thread that hurls profanities and talks about how boring and shit this game is? I'm also into role-playing so if that is your wish I might actually try to comply and try it out.

You clearly didn't get the memo, no one cares. From your past posts and even now, you have had little to no positive feedback. You manipulate the scenario to suit your ideals, which is reasonable and understandable, however, your sense of ideals aren't positive nor wanted. I'd much rather have someone be honest and blunt rather than someone who seeks to run with the herd to be pleasing to the eye(though even that, you are far from). Your posts spew your arrogance

 

[webreg]

So, what kind of "positive" or "wanted" feedback would you expect from a thread such as this?

 

[1man3letters]

general m2dave thread should of been called this community would rather play with exploitable stage select systems.
you guys are shooting yourself in the foot playing "evo rules" or wanting to use what won the 1st community poll.

also im calling bullshit on the whole scorpion paragraph you have in your OP,
there were players both calling for scorpions ban and badmouthing the game at same time so dont try make out there wasnt good sir

 

[TheGuyFromSRK]

This community is too good. How do i join? xD

 

[Kiko]

You clearly didn't get the memo, no one cares. From your past posts and even now, you have had little to no positive feedback. You manipulate the scenario to suit your ideals, which is reasonable and understandable, however, your sense of ideals aren't positive nor wanted. I'd much rather have someone be honest and blunt rather than someone who seeks to run with the herd to be pleasing to the eye(though even that, you are far from). Your posts spew your arrogance

I think he is actually bringing up good points that we shouldn't look away from because of "arrogance."

 

[webreg]

The title is "This community does not want a balanced fighting game.". See one of my previous posts which gives context to the original post. I agree with Dave but I don't think this is such a big enlightenment. Competitive players are all about edge and advantage. They very obviously don't want a balanced game. They want to have the advantage and a balanced game is not preferable to them. Players that main characters which have an advantage obviously are "against patching and normalizing" yet I claim that these exact players would be very much in favor of patches and "balancing" if they would play a lower tier character. This is why the discussion in this forum is and never will come to any kind of consensus. You can't have devoted, competitive players and at the same time reasonable people who work together for a fair and balanced game. There are notable exceptions obviously. REO seems to be one. But that doesn't matter as long as even a few remain that are primary concerned with their own advantage.

 

[webreg]

That's why high tier players are against patching even though a thoroughly balanced game would be better for everyone.

 

[SUPARNOVAX]

This game definitely has some very slow and boring moments in the high end. Those that keep denying this need to stop apologizing for questionable Nrs design choices. Instead, offer feedback and criticism and refinement.

A lot of people want the game to continually progress. It's not going to move much positively if loud mouths keep trying to shut the rest of people up.

I think pushback is an issue in some areas that contributes to this. It was the same in SFxT.

Like leave Superman closer to people after f23 x breath. He won't spam f23 again if people can tag him with d1 or stand1. Just an example for push back refinement.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2

 

[M2Dave]

Not necessarily. A successful game with a vibrant tournament scene and community does require certain external resources. Casual gamers are condemned and looked upon with scorn in this forum here. People don't seem to understand that the casual gamer and a broad appeal is the very foundation such a community as this is based upon. Simple mathematics. I assume less than 1% of all people buying/playing fighting games are actually members of a community such as this. If you have 100'000 people buying the game then you will have 1000 enthusiasts. if you have 1'000'000 people buying the game you'll have a potential for 100'000 hardcore fans (the progression actually isn't linear like this but you get the idea).

More importantly is the following though. The tournament scene relies on sponsors, sponsors rely on exposure, exposure needs consumers. If there are no casual gamers watching the streams then the sponsors are not interested in investing money, so the players can't afford the travel costs and entry fees and the tournament organizers are not able to provide prizes.

This means that any successful game absolutely needs to appeal to the casual gamer. That's the tightrope NRS has to walk. Casual gamers don't "adapt". They either have fun or they don't. So the game does need to be balanced regularly in order to maintain a significant player base. Street Fighter doesn't need this because they have reached critical mass a long time ago. Their base is now self-sustaining. MK and Injustice aren't.

Very well-written argument.

But the problem is, what is best for the casual audience may not necessarily be best for high level gameplay (i.e., what is seen on stream). Allow me to give you an example.

Deathstroke's best move was heavily normalized because the casual fan base was unable to learn and adapt. Understandable. As a result, Deathstroke moved down at least one tier. He is still a solid character, but he is not top tier. A tournament player is less likely to select Deathstroke and more likely to select Black Adam or Superman, which leads to the same "boring" characters and/or matches that no casual gamer wants to see for the 100th time, yet the casual gamer is indirectly responsible for this event.

This example is related to a philosophy on balance too. Normalizing a top tier character does not mean that high level players will now pick Bane or Lobo. It just means they will pick the next best thing.

 

[Wemfs]

Saying Injustice is better than MK is subjective. Other than that I agree with your last three bullet points.

 

[RWDY Nori]

People always SAY they want balanced fighters, but history says otherwise. The following games are extremely popular and not balanced (also everybody is going to have a different definition of balanced)

MvC2
3S
MvC3/UMvC3
Tekken series
SF series (minus Hyper Fighter and arguably Super Turbo)
Soul Calibur series
MK series


Seriously, it's nothing short of comedy people say they want a balanced fighter yet the highest selling games (the games having years of tourney lifespan also) say otherwise.


I can't speak for others, but me personally, I enjoyed Injustice for a while, it's fun to play casually, just not a game I can take seriously anymore. It's not as challenging as I would like a game to be

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Or watch Black Adam do EVERYTHING and its 100% safe on block and then you get in he back dashed and throws an interactable at you.

black adam played correctly is really really safe...

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

I cannot argue that sinestro has holes in his game but to say he sucks is going a bit to far when i have proven several times that he goes even with a lot of really good characters in this game.

 

[doubleperfect]

the think the problem right now is that walking speed is too slow. and for footsies we have for light attack moves range from 6 frames to 12+frames.... a six frame difference for footsies is bit harsh between certain characters compared to other fighters i have played since soul calibur 2 days to ssf4 and now injustice. just my thoughts, thought i throw them out there.

 

[A New Angel Is Advent]

I think the balance is fine. My two complaints are that this game moves a little too slow, and high level play hasn't really gone past a fundamental level.

 

[Perfect Legend]

is this due to losing badly to rico an hour ago?

I've been saying adam is dumb forever. Every tournament lost I have had was to Black Adam lol.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Not necessarily. A successful game with a vibrant tournament scene and community does require certain external resources. Casual gamers are condemned and looked upon with scorn in this forum here. People don't seem to understand that the casual gamer and a broad appeal is the very foundation such a community as this is based upon. Simple mathematics. I assume less than 1% of all people buying/playing fighting games are actually members of a community such as this. If you have 100'000 people buying the game then you will have 1000 enthusiasts. if you have 1'000'000 people buying the game you'll have a potential for 100'000 hardcore fans (the progression actually isn't linear like this but you get the idea).

More importantly is the following though. The tournament scene relies on sponsors, sponsors rely on exposure, exposure needs consumers. If there are no casual gamers watching the streams then the sponsors are not interested in investing money, so the players can't afford the travel costs and entry fees and the tournament organizers are not able to provide prizes.

This means that any successful game absolutely needs to appeal to the casual gamer. That's the tightrope NRS has to walk. Casual gamers don't "adapt". They either have fun or they don't. So the game does need to be balanced regularly in order to maintain a significant player base. Street Fighter doesn't need this because they have reached critical mass a long time ago. Their base is now self-sustaining. MK and Injustice aren't.

This pretty much wrapped the thread up.

 

[TakeAChance]

Correct.

First, NRS needs to analyze what makes the top tier characters top tier. Second, they need to think about what they can do to help the low tier characters.

For example, characters who have strong 50/50 mix ups (i.e., Batgirl, Killer Frost, The Flash, and Wonder Woman) are very good in this game. As are characters who can rush down and zone (i.e., Aquaman, Batman, General Zod, Martian Manhunter, Superman, etc.).

What does a character like Lobo or Shazam need to be up there?

Doesn't deathstroke have a good 50/50 game?

Cant Deathstroke rushdown and zone?

 

[McNasty]

nice post dave glad someone could put it all in perspective.

 

[Error]

Doesn't deathstroke have a good 50/50 game?

Cant Deathstroke rushdown and zone?

Wouldn't call them strong 50/50s

 

[TakeAChance]

I think the problem a lot of people have in terms of balance is that everyones views are completely there own. Injustice is a mesh of communities.

Some people think the zoning capability Deathstroke had pre patch was bullshit. Other people thought it was fine.

Some people think Superman and Black Adam are currently broken all to hell, while other people think that in time these characters will fall due to matchup knowledge...

There is a constant conflicting set of views that are applied to these types of discussions which makes them nearly impossible to come to a common consensus...only a general sense of agreement. IE: Superman and Black Adam need to be tweaked. Lex just needs a fine tuning and not a complete overhaul... etc. etc.

The fact of the matter is this, no community could ever lay out a list of changes and have full consensus. It's not happening.

@M2Dave consider this.

If NRS increased the walk speeds, do you think half the casuals would still bitch about Deathstroke if he had his guns restored? Imagine if instead of moving an inch, they moved 4 inches. Your move still gets the same properties, they don't lose 40% in chip, maybe only 20%.

NRS zoning is a different breed. It's not used for footsies, it's used for attack. That's why it's boring to watch.

 

[TakeAChance]

Wouldn't call them strong 50/50s

J1 B1 (low) U2 combo for over 30%

J1 B22~sword spin (hit confirm'd meterburn) quick shot for 25% I believe.

That's a pretty cut and dry set of 50/50's.

Not to mention after a F23 he is +9 and can go for either or a jump again.

 

[Cruz]

1. Support all types of gameplay styles. Fighting games are better with lots of diversity and variety.

This is what i've been saying all the time... It doesn't matter you don't like a grappler or zoner or rushdown as long
as there's enough for people who do so the roster is balanced and everyone can find a character to his likes.
If nobody played a grappler the Grundy/Bane forums would be empty wich is not the case nor is the Deathstroke forum empty.
I also think scrubs/zoner haters destroyed Deathstroke, the nerfs where too strong in my opinion.
Netherrealm listens too much to these people that cry for nerfs if they can't directly beat something.
However Injustice is lost cause of the throwing respawning objects to each other and stage transitions in my opinion it
destroyed Deception and now Injustice! Also the last DLC looks like crap so it's clear they're working on MK10 since
it has to be finished in 2 years from now so lets all support the perfect balanced roster for MK10 is my suggestion.