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General/Other - Sub-Zero Sub-Zero Beta Discussion Thread

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Glad someone caught that , I was hoping ! Lol
At least that wound make the vari name make sense
Unbreakable clone ...that is all
 

Colest

Mid-Tier 'Mancer Main
Frost Hammer on Cryo could stand to have more active frames. The animation shows the hammer colliding with the opponent way sooner than when the active frames actually engage. The move is has very little use IMO outside of combos because it's a toss-up if the hammer actually hits with a mobile opponent. It can already be backdashed on reaction pretty easily.

I agree that Air Hammer is still relatively useless and could use a little more tweaking.
 

Lokheit

Noob
Ice Hammer stuffs most wake ups, even Cassie's flip kick.
But it has no use. There are better things to do afer a HKD. If they block it you are -2 without pushback and Cryo isn't good at that distance. If they delay wakeup the recovery is really long. If you break the armor it's just 13 damage leading to nothing and the knock down is too short to try it again. NJK is safe against armored moves in the corner (the only place where Air Hammer is effective for armor breaking) and JIP into 111 breaks some armors too in addition to changing sides of the controller while returning you to the correct position on hit.

If it didn't knock down (as I said, the first hit is a true restand, but the second one knocks down so it invalidates it), that armor break would lead to a 50/50 so there would be a reward, and there are ways to finish corner combos on air hammer, sacrificing damage and requiring good execution but this way you could sacrifice damage to keep your momentum. Finally it would mean that opponents have to respect you midscreen because you can cancel your assault earlier to drop the air hammer, but you have to be really careful because the hammer is slow and even bare fist uppercuts win against it, not to mention air to air hits. Basically it would be a tool that won't be so powerful as counters are easy to find and execute but would force opponents to at least respect Cryo.

Currently Cryo can't force mistakes on opponents and he DEPENDS on punishing opponents mistakes (he is NOT a rushdown character like many believe because of the cool weapons, he gets eaten alive when trying to play like that), that's why I think he needs a tool like that to spice things up.
 
But it has no use. There are better things to do afer a HKD. If they block it you are -2 without pushback and Cryo isn't good at that distance. If they delay wakeup the recovery is really long. If you break the armor it's just 13 damage leading to nothing and the knock down is too short to try it again. NJK is safe against armored moves in the corner (the only place where Air Hammer is effective for armor breaking) and JIP into 111 breaks some armors too in addition to changing sides of the controller while returning you to the correct position on hit.

If it didn't knock down (as I said, the first hit is a true restand, but the second one knocks down so it invalidates it), that armor break would lead to a 50/50 so there would be a reward, and there are ways to finish corner combos on air hammer, sacrificing damage and requiring good execution but this way you could sacrifice damage to keep your momentum. Finally it would mean that opponents have to respect you midscreen because you can cancel your assault earlier to drop the air hammer, but you have to be really careful because the hammer is slow and even bare fist uppercuts win against it, not to mention air to air hits. Basically it would be a tool that won't be so powerful as counters are easy to find and execute but would force opponents to at least respect Cryo.

Currently Cryo can't force mistakes on opponents and he DEPENDS on punishing opponents mistakes (he is NOT a rushdown character like many believe because of the cool weapons, he gets eaten alive when trying to play like that), that's why I think he needs a tool like that to spice things up.
A gap to be able to bait armor?
 
Unbreakable needs the floor freeze, the teleport from MKvsDC, the air shower freeze from mk3, make it so the opponent receives chip damage if sub blocks anything whilst having aura out, make the shield reflect projectiles and EX work like smoke shake, allow him to draw little platforms with ice that can be jumped upon like smash bros (and uppercut makes them shatter), give him the freeze into surfboard then slide upon him move from deadly alliance and the ice tornado from the ground move from deception
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Unbreakable needs the floor freeze, the teleport from MKvsDC, the air shower freeze from mk3, make it so the opponent receives chip damage if sub blocks anything whilst having aura out, make the shield reflect projectiles and EX work like smoke shake, allow him to draw little platforms with ice that can be jumped upon like smash bros (and uppercut makes them shatter), give him the freeze into surfboard then slide upon him move from deadly alliance and the ice tornado from the ground move from deception
Basically he's trying to say "give him something , anything!!!"

And I like the way he thinks!
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
I want Unbreakable to be the ultimate defense., like a giant iceberg that you can't take down. What they did to kotal's blood god should be done with umbreakable to an extent. Give this variation specific strings to make use of the parry? More plus aura cancels? Ppllzzz..
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Yea cuz that helps...not , seriously jus block Laos spin and punish , or jump at him on knockdown to bait the spin , then block and punish
 

Lokheit

Noob
Also guys the hammer breaks armor like a toothpick. Laos spin can't even stop it.
As I said above, the fact that it breaks armor means nothing when you can't lead into anything with it. A lot of characters can break armor leading into full combo. I'm just asking to make it an useful tool so Cryo has something else than waiting for an opponent mistake which depends on the actions of a second party and Cryo has no tools to make them respect or take risks.
 

RagingRicans

NetBattles
I don't know if it's a nerf or not , but if you set the clone up close and b2 it usually freezes, but it whiffs completely now.

I also felt like I've been getting poked out a lot more and I don't think its a placebo type deal
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Hmm. I kind of find it frustrating if they freeze after a B2 so if that's all it affects then I'm bueno. But that does seem like a nerf. I haven't had a lot of time on the beta yet but I'll looking for that kind of thing.
 

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Administrator
But it has no use. There are better things to do afer a HKD. If they block it you are -2 without pushback and Cryo isn't good at that distance. If they delay wakeup the recovery is really long. If you break the armor it's just 13 damage leading to nothing and the knock down is too short to try it again. NJK is safe against armored moves in the corner (the only place where Air Hammer is effective for armor breaking) and JIP into 111 breaks some armors too in addition to changing sides of the controller while returning you to the correct position on hit.

If it didn't knock down (as I said, the first hit is a true restand, but the second one knocks down so it invalidates it), that armor break would lead to a 50/50 so there would be a reward, and there are ways to finish corner combos on air hammer, sacrificing damage and requiring good execution but this way you could sacrifice damage to keep your momentum. Finally it would mean that opponents have to respect you midscreen because you can cancel your assault earlier to drop the air hammer, but you have to be really careful because the hammer is slow and even bare fist uppercuts win against it, not to mention air to air hits. Basically it would be a tool that won't be so powerful as counters are easy to find and execute but would force opponents to at least respect Cryo.

Currently Cryo can't force mistakes on opponents and he DEPENDS on punishing opponents mistakes (he is NOT a rushdown character like many believe because of the cool weapons, he gets eaten alive when trying to play like that), that's why I think he needs a tool like that to spice things up.
Njk and j1 111 dont work like that. Your reward is literally not having to deal with wake ups in the corner at all while being safe.
 

crosshair271

Sub-Xerox
I don't know if it's a nerf or not , but if you set the clone up close and b2 it usually freezes, but it whiffs completely now.

I also felt like I've been getting poked out a lot more and I don't think its a placebo type deal
It would be a buff to me since I could now drag out the Klone cooldown for the full B2, B2, 1, 1, B12xxKlone combo. I don't have the beta but I would try testing with kick normals. Those used to freeze the minute it touched the Klone chest. Test with Sub using S3/D4 and distance it so the very flat bottom or tip of his foot touches. If it's anything like this used to be then something else may have been changed.







 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
I don't know if it's a nerf or not , but if you set the clone up close and b2 it usually freezes, but it whiffs completely now.

I also felt like I've been getting poked out a lot more and I don't think its a placebo type deal
thats.. not a bad thing actually..
 
What sucks about the air hammer restand is that it leaves sub zero at negative frames. Adding to the air hammer being even more useless.