General/Other - Shirai Ryu Shirai Ryu General Discussion Thread

[Agoat]

Anybody else have trouble with Grandmaster Sub and Mileena?

Mileena put me into losers at my last tournament.

I've found that whip pressure, kunai setups and jumping chains are pretty much the best ways to deal damage. I have combos with Takeda, but every character I play against locally is faster or has more range than Takeda. I have a 40% combo, but there's no sense in using it when half the cast can out-jab my character. That being said, Ex Kunai traps after scoring a knockdown are really fun, though I've yet to get any real damage out of it.

 

[mistaRONJON]

Takeda is definitely more viable now with the improved damage scaling. After a few d3 and d4s i condition my opponents for the low blocks to capitalize with either b112 or 334 for the overhead (mid distance). If you can bait them with the kunai while standing, rule of thumb is always jump backwards or dash for the b21xxEXspearxx... I've been doing this consistently but the key to winning with Takeda is always having enough space/range to land his setups. Rushdown characters like Liu Kang D'vorah Raiden Cassie Sonya.. Give Takeda tremendous trouble up close and in the corner. Hopefully some of you can relate bc I can dominate as long as I'm not super close

 

[Naug]

Mileena put me into losers at my last tournament.

Mileena seems tough because she's so good against getting in on zoners and because her roll goes below your f3. I may overuse f3 as a footsie tool... but still, you have at least one less tool to play against her and its really hard to keep her at range. Seems like one of the tougher match ups.

Speaking of which, what's a good punish for blocking her roll? I haven't labbed that yet.

 

[st9rm]

Mileena seems tough because she's so good against getting in on zoners and because her roll goes below your f3. I may overuse f3 as a footsie tool... but still, you have at least one less tool to play against her and its really hard to keep her at range. Seems like one of the tougher match ups.

Speaking of which, what's a good punish for blocking her roll? I haven't labbed that yet.

4 4 ex spear tele 3 3 spear for 41%

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Mileena seems tough because she's so good against getting in on zoners and because her roll goes below your f3. I may overuse f3 as a footsie tool... but still, you have at least one less tool to play against her and its really hard to keep her at range. Seems like one of the tougher match ups.

Speaking of which, what's a good punish for blocking her roll? I haven't labbed that yet.

Pretty much all the standard punishes apply (see the BnB thread).

The standard b3 punish will net you 43%.

 

[The Great One]

Not sure if this has been discussed but is it better to end with the punches or the spear?

The spear does 1% more damage I believe but the punches lead to a hard knockdown up close.

Is the 1% worth it for takeda? Can he take advantage of the knockdown???

 

[Zoidberg747]

Not sure if this has been discussed but is it better to end with the punches or the spear?

The spear does 1% more damage I believe but the punches lead to a hard knockdown up close.

Is the 1% worth it for takeda? Can he take advantage of the knockdown???

Im no expert but I usually do spear as it puts me in the range to do b21 without fear of wakeups(for the most part).

On the other hand if they know how to get out of b21 stuff the hard knockdown can be good to bait wakeups. But I worry that if I screw up they are in my face and that is obviously not where I want to be.

 

[Zoidberg747]

So where exactly is the gap in the f12 2+4 string. I've managed to armor through the 2nd hit of 2+4 a few times, but is that the only gap? I only ask because I dont see how it is as big of an issue since can cancel into kunai or tele cancel after the 1st hit. But I am sure I am missing something.

 

[Nortnauq]

So where exactly is the gap in the f12 2+4 string. I've managed to armor through the 2nd hit of 2+4 a few times, but is that the only gap? I only ask because I dont see how it is as big of an issue since can cancel into kunai or tele cancel after the 1st hit. But I am sure I am missing something.

It looks like there's only that one gap in the f122+4 string, being the 2nd hit of 2+4.
Shout out to @RedRaptor10 for demonstrating ways to counter armor attacks. (Back dashing is another story...)

 

[GrimJack]

It looks like there's only that one gap in the f122+4 string, being the 2nd hit of 2+4.
Shout out to @RedRaptor10 for demonstrating ways to counter armor attacks. (Back dashing is another story...)

I personally think the problem is all takeda armored specials are not safe so throw it out while hoping the opponent will armored out of the second hit of 2+4 is quite dangerous. It is best imo to teleport cancel second hit of 2+4

 

[Nortnauq]

I personally think the problem is all takeda armored specials are not safe so throw it out while hoping the opponent will armored out of the second hit of 2+4 is quite dangerous. It is best imo to teleport cancel second hit of 2+4

I completely agree that teleport canceling should still be our go-to for staying safe, it's just nice to know that we have these options if our stamina is depleted.

 

[aieches]

one thing id would 'ike to know... sometimes i have the problem of cover committing to f12 2+4 then the opponent either jumps or teleports ... so now im continuing the string in the other direction.. which direction should i input my cancel for tele or kunai before they attack from behind, should i make the commands as in the way im facing , or should i change them for the side im currently on

 

[Nortnauq]

one thing id would 'ike to know... sometimes i have the problem of cover committing to f12 2+4 then the opponent either jumps or teleports ... so now im continuing the string in the other direction.. which direction should i input my cancel for tele or kunai before they attack from behind, should i make the commands as in the way im facing , or should i change them for the side im currently on

Unfortunately, in order to cancel into a special move from any string, you must first hit your opponent whether it's on block or not.

 

[aieches]

Unfortunately, in order to cancel into a special move from any string, you must first hit your opponent whether it's on block or not.

ahhhh im stupid.. i knew this but completely overlooked that in this instance for some odd reason..

 

[jordan ewell]

ahhhh im stupid.. i knew this but completely overlooked that in this instance for some odd reason..

Anybody else love using F1,2+4 as a pre emotive antiair lol. It's awesome

 

[Nortnauq]

Anybody else love using F1,2+4 as a pre emotive antiair lol. It's awesome

I love when the opponent thinks I whiffed a string, so they try to jump in to close the spacing and then it just slaps them out of the air into full combo.

 

[jordan ewell]

I love when the opponent thinks I whiffed a string, so they try to jump in to close the spacing and then it just slaps them out of the air into full combo.

Lol I know that's what I mean. It's awesome

 

[LiangHuBBB]

damn I need to get back to this game
since the witcher 3 and USF4 I haven't touched MKX during the last 2 weeks

 

[Zoidberg747]

Whats especially funny is when Quan Chi tries to armor through f12 2+4 and the second whip hits him out of the air.

 

[Agoat]

It looks like there's only that one gap in the f122+4 string, being the 2nd hit of 2+4.
Shout out to @RedRaptor10 for demonstrating ways to counter armor attacks. (Back dashing is another story...)

I had no idea there were so many options, especially against Raiden. Does any of this work against slides?

 

[Carmine]

what would you guys say is the best way to start pressure, I feel pretty confident at mid range, but when they get right up to me I have no clue what to do beside spam d1, d3

 

[GuerillaTactix]

what would you guys say is the best way to start pressure, I feel pretty confident at mid range, but when they get right up to me I have no clue what to do beside spam d1, d3

What range? Sweep distance d4 on hit allows you to back dash immediately if you want range but it also goes nicely into b3 d3. It doesn't hit confirm or anything but it can catch someone off guard. Takedas f21 into close kunai isn't anything to laugh at. Keep in mind the kuani can be armored through of course but its an option. Really nothing beats f1 2+4 or f12 2+4 pressure. Recently I've been trying to do b11 kunai or b11 tele cancel. It's alot of guessing whether or not your pressure will hit and knowing what to use next if it hits or is blocked so theres no one size fits all solution.

 

[Carmine]

I wasnt asking for a one size fits all answer, your answer was actually alot of help, and i was more specifically asking about when they are right on top of you and pressuring you with strings, I can d1, d3, between strings put i dont know what to do to start my own pressure, can you safely do an f21, f1 2+4, or f12 2+4 after a d1 on hit, because i feel like i cant really get anything started, and thank you for that feedback

 

[GuerillaTactix]

I wasnt asking for a one size fits all answer, your answer was actually alot of help, and i was more specifically asking about when they are right on top of you and pressuring you with strings, I can d1, d3, between strings put i dont know what to do to start my own pressure, can you safely do an f21, f1 2+4, or f12 2+4 after a d1 on hit, because i feel like i cant really get anything started, and thank you for that feedback

On hit d1 is +16 so yeah you can start f21, f1 2+4, and f12 2+4 pressure. Interesting tid bit, close kunai is +20 on hit so you can do f21 ~close kunai and if the low hits your b2 comes out in 3 frames instead of 24 and your b3 comes out in 1 frame. There's obviously a gap where your opponent can jump out so I've been experimenting with using 21 kunai. The 2 comes out in like 7 frames but it anti airs alot of jump ins if they did jump in quickly cancel into spear. If they didn't jump in the 1 will hit on block and you can cancel into kunai.

Sorry I misunderstood you hope some of this helps.. Remember that alot of that stuff can be armored through so use your tele cancels to make things safe. On that note only b21, f1 2+4, and f12 2+4 allow enough cancel advantage to safely do a tele cancel. Quick phase starts up in 29 frames, hold is a frame, and cancel is a frame. Allow a few frames for input error and you want to only do a tele cancel if you're looking at 34 or more frames of cancel advantage. f1 2+4 and f21 2+4 have 50 cancel advantage so they work the best. b21 works so well because of the range. You can walk up throw too. f3 is great but ends your pressure. It's awesome for catching backdashes.

 

[Carmine]

On hit d1 is +16 so yeah you can start f21, f1 2+4, and f12 2+4 pressure. Interesting tid bit, close kunai is +20 on hit so you can do f21 ~close kunai and if the low hits your b2 comes out in 3 frames instead of 24 and your b3 comes out in 1 frame. There's obviously a gap where your opponent can jump out so I've been experimenting with using 21 kunai. The 2 comes out in like 7 frames but it anti airs alot of jump ins if they did jump in quickly cancel into spear. If they didn't jump in the 1 will hit on block and you can cancel into kunai.

Sorry I misunderstood you hope some of this helps.. Remember that alot of that stuff can be armored through so use your tele cancels to make things safe. On that note only b21, f1 2+4, and f12 2+4 allow enough cancel advantage to safely do a tele cancel. Quick phase starts up in 29 frames, hold is a frame, and cancel is a frame. Allow a few frames for input error and you want to only do a tele cancel if you're looking at 34 or more frames of cancel advantage. f1 2+4 and f21 2+4 have 50 cancel advantage so they work the best. b21 works so well because of the range. You can walk up throw too. f3 is great but ends your pressure. It's awesome for catching backdashes.

Thanks, that was the information I was looking for, so if I am giving enough time for them to be beating me on strings, then its input errors on my part, also can you feasibly hit confirm f1 2+4(first hit) or can you only confirm on the second hit, because i know you can do it on f12 2+4, which i can only sometimes do