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General/Other - Necromancer Shinnok (necromancer) is close to being a good character.

C

ConsoleCombat

Noob
General M2Dave said:
I think there is, but you must have the proper tools, and Shinnok evidently does not.

While the 50/50 mix ups characters either have teleports or pokes that almost hit you from half a screen away, the vast majority of defensive / zoning characters in this game are designed for a fighting game without a run button. Shinnok is the best example because he has extremely limited options to handle running opponents.

Nobody is asking for another Freddy or Zod in this game, but damn... could we please at least have a handful of fun and viable characters who slightly deviate from the monotonous "run and do 50/50 mix ups" meta game?
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I agree 100%.
 
U

Ugodimak

Noob
General M2Dave said:
I think there is, but you must have the proper tools, and Shinnok evidently does not.

While the 50/50 mix ups characters either have teleports or pokes that almost hit you from half a screen away, the vast majority of defensive / zoning characters in this game are designed for a fighting game without a run button. Shinnok is the best example because he has extremely limited options to handle running opponents.

Nobody is asking for another Freddy or Zod in this game, but damn... could we please at least have a handful of fun and viable characters who slightly deviate from the monotonous "run and do 50/50 mix ups" meta game?
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The problem with Necromancer is that his zoning is only good from about midscreen. And even then no character really needs to respect it.

Fullscreen hellsparks doesn't even connect, and the opponent can just run past flick his overhead hand is so slow it's not even worth using unless after a knockdown,Summoned fiend is "decent" at best, it's good for catching people who try to get too overzealous trying to get in.

Other than that, this character doesn't even come close in terms of zoning to Full Auto Jacqui or Cybernetic Kano (who I've personally experienced from you), There's a reason people are overlooking this variation compared to Impostor and Bone Shaper.
 
C

ConsoleCombat

Noob
edit to OP

string 312... doesn't lead to ANYTHING. lol it makes shoulder charge lose damage bc it doesn't fully iht mid screen or in the corner.


to be fair you do get a 9% non mb amulet that can create some space...
 
Last edited:
C

ConsoleCombat

Noob
Ugodimak said:
The problem with Necromancer is that his zoning is only good from about midscreen. And even then no character really needs to respect it.

Fullscreen hellsparks doesn't even connect, and the opponent can just run past flick his overhead hand is so slow it's not even worth using unless after a knockdown,Summoned fiend is "decent" at best, it's good for catching people who try to get too overzealous trying to get in.

Other than that, this character doesn't even come close in terms of zoning to Full Auto Jacqui or Cybernetic Kano (who I've personally experienced from you), There's a reason people are overlooking this variation compared to Impostor and Bone Shaper.
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keep in mind sparks is fully punishable on block by most of the cast.
 
C

ConsoleCombat

Noob
GGA Jeremiah said:
Not quite. Her low is 12f, her overhead is 14f and her throw is 9 or 10 frames. Most d1's would beat all those follow up options when Cassie is even.
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keep in mind 'even' in this game is only if you let go of block while you are in block stun of the last move. most things that are even are actually +2 or 3. this is why you do not see moves that are plus in the frame data. she is at adv after her really good string. test it man. do the jump test. but i digress.. back to why shinnok could use some help! tag me in the cassie forums if you want to talk more about her.
 
GGA Jeremiah

GGA Jeremiah

Sheeva
ConsoleCombat said:
edit to OP

string 312... doesn't lead to ANYTHING.
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Yeah that sucks. Shinnok could use some love, and I am saying that even after losing to a Shinnok this week at GBS.

ConsoleCombat said:
keep in mind 'even' in this game is only if you let go of block while you are in block stun of the last move. most things that are even are actually +2 or 3. this is why you do not see moves that are plus in the frame data. she is at adv after her really good string. test it man. do the jump test. but i digress.. back to why shinnok could use some help! tag me in the cassie forums if you want to talk more about her.
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I will look into this tonight when I get home. Thanks.
 
Wemfs

Wemfs

The only morality in a cruel world is chance.
ConsoleCombat said:
edit to OP

string 312... doesn't lead to ANYTHING. lol it makes shoulder charge lose damage bc it doesn't fully iht mid screen or in the corner.


to be fair you do get a 9% non mb amulet that can create some space...
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This video shows how fucking broken Shinnok is. Top tier greatness is being witnessed everyone.

:DOGE
 
RM_NINfan101

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
I really don't know how to feel about this. On one hand, I feel Shinnok is clearly not very well thought out, needs tools and is just really shit next to the entire cast even though I main Necromancer Shinnok and win with him.

On the other, I constantly win even against good players... Don't know how to feel. I mean yes, he really is lacking compared to other characters, he has almost no dirt aside from the Impostor Vortex.

But he also is a strong fundamental poking character and I do well with that type of playstyle.
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Kinetic Balding1 said:
You can't really determine if a character is good or bad week 2 of the game. Theres many variations that are still unexplored
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Sometimes you can. Everybody knew Ares was crap at the beginning of Injustice and everybody knew Ares was crap at the end of Injustice. The same was more or less true for Cyborg when the instant aerial fireball block infinite combo was removed.

In this game, you need to have some really good tools if you lack a 50/50 mix up, and Shinnok has nothing (unless you know something that the Shinnok community does not). It is as simple as that.
 
JDM

JDM

Noob
General M2Dave said:
Sometimes you can. Everybody knew Ares was crap at the beginning of Injustice and everybody knew Ares was crap at the end of Injustice. The same was more or less true for Cyborg when the instant aerial fireball block infinite combo was removed.

In this game, you need to have some really good tools if you lack a 50/50 mix up, and Shinnok has nothing (unless you know something that the Shinnok community does not). It is as simple as that.
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It doesn't take a genius to see Shinnok is very underwhelming. I noticed it with him in about 5 minutes in training mode. :/
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Their idea about him was good but it was so poorly executed and obviously didn't have much thought about it. He has 4 strings for christ sake, clearly a last minute job, and his tools are laughable when compared what others have.

There are quite a few other examples of how similar tools stack up against each other and it's kinda shitty. Cassie's b12 has big range, can be hit confirmed and is safe on block, where as Kotal's f1b2 has similar range, can't be hit confirmed and is unsafe. Why? When Cassie has a 50/50 in all variations, fast as shit moves and good footsies, when Kotal is worse off in all of those categories.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Shinnok is like Bane in a way...

A character whom has the potential for greatness, but if handled improperly will end out overpowered by the minor change of just a few tools.
 
DownfouralitY

DownfouralitY

Noob
RM_NINfan101 said:
I really don't know how to feel about this. On one hand, I feel Shinnok is clearly not very well thought out, needs tools and is just really shit next to the entire cast even though I main Necromancer Shinnok and win with him.

On the other, I constantly win even against good players... Don't know how to feel. I mean yes, he really is lacking compared to other characters, he has almost no dirt aside from the Impostor Vortex.

But he also is a strong fundamental poking character and I do well with that type of playstyle.
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Tbh I win a lot with Shinnok as well and I think it's just because people don't know how unsafe he is on everything. People respect me wayyy too much when i'm using Shinnok lol
 
C

ConsoleCombat

Noob
RM_NINfan101 said:
I really don't know how to feel about this. On one hand, I feel Shinnok is clearly not very well thought out, needs tools and is just really shit next to the entire cast even though I main Necromancer Shinnok and win with him.

On the other, I constantly win even against good players... Don't know how to feel. I mean yes, he really is lacking compared to other characters, he has almost no dirt aside from the Impostor Vortex.

But he also is a strong fundamental poking character and I do well with that type of playstyle.
Click to expand...
I think as the game develops and realize how unsafe he really is... you may sway how you feel a bit
 
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