Discussion Patches overwhelmingly help NRS games not hurt them

[Scoot Magee]

He has way less range, less block strings, a worse jump in, and hes less safe.

less block strings? Hellfire scorpion has some of the best block pressure in the game coupled with damage over time from flame aura. His air to air game is insane as well. Kj does have more range.

Posting things that are wrong as fact is what leads to a lot of this nonsense.

 

[Filipino Man]

The problem with Injustice is that th e game sucked before the patches (and I argue before 1.06).

I feel like it was rushed to send it out before EVO.

However, MKX is a much better game upon release, just feels a lot more fluid and well thought out with more testing behind it, which is why I think giving a little more time before the first patch is justified.

 

[SaltShaker]

I didn't say don't patch the game. I said wait till the game evolves more before making final decisions on a patch.

But how long do you have to wait to patch something so obvious? How long does it take to realize some of the bs Kung Jin has like safe 50/50's from damn near midscreen that end at -4 and 0 as well as meterless damage that is higher than my Kano's one bar damage among a plethora of other things need to be balanced??? How long does it take for the obvious to become more obvious?

I main scorpion and I think he's better than Kung jin.

The #1 and #2 most ridiculous characters right now in dire need of balancing. This explains a lot about your posts.

 

[Scoot Magee]

But how long do you have to wait to patch something so obvious? How long does it take to realize some of the bs Kung Jin has like safe 50/50's from damn near midscreen that end at -4 and 0 as well as meterless damage that is higher than my Kano's one bar damage among a plethora of other things need to be balanced??? How long does it take for the obvious to become more obvious?



The #1 and #2 most ridiculous characters right now in dire need of balancing. This explains a lot about your posts.

I'm over here telling people about other things in the game besides Kung jin in order to help provide the most info possible before a patch. BTW sonya and quan chi are most likely #1 not scorpion and Kung jin.

Anything obvious like bugs, glitches, infinite and etc should be fixed. In terms of balance I'm saying let's find everything first before making big changes. It's the smartest way to go about it.

I'm surprised to hear someone actually thinks scorpion is insane. I've been making the case that hellfire scorpion is a top character and people tell me I'm crazy.

 

[Reauxbot]

But how long do you have to wait to patch something so obvious? How long does it take to realize some of the bs Kung Jin has like safe 50/50's from damn near midscreen that end at -4 and 0 as well as meterless damage that is higher than my Kano's one bar damage among a plethora of other things need to be balanced??? How long does it take for the obvious to become more obvious?



The #1 and #2 most ridiculous characters right now in dire need of balancing. This explains a lot about your posts.

Mains Scorpion and feels hes better than Kung Jin
I main Cassie and feel shes better than Scorpion..

 

[Reauxbot]

I'm over here telling people about other things in the game besides Kung jin in order to help provide the most info possible before a patch. BTW sonya and quan chi are most likely #1 not scorpion and Kung jin.

Sonya? Really? I wouldnt expect that. She must be an undercover beast. Havent played more than 6 Sonyas.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Sonya? Really? I wouldnt expect that. She must be an undercover beast. Havent played more than 6 Sonyas.

I rest my case

 

[Tim Static]

There is a lot of discussion going on about how patches ruin NRS games and anyone who even thinks about discussing patches should be tarred and feathered and ostracized from the TYM community. I would like to give some ammunition to people on this sight that feel like they are not allowed to discuss MKX balance for fear of being called a "complainer" or even worse. Please discuss this game, talk about it, wonder out loud if you think something is overpowered or underpowered. In fact that is what this sight is supposed to be about, the open discussion of things, not people telling you "you shouldn't talk about this or that".

My only hope with this post is to free people up to discuss what is on your minds. Please let us open up discussion instead of trying to stop people from talking. Thank you.

It's not the you can't talk about it, it's the way things are, how they are brought up, and when.

Absolutely under any circumstances should tier lists & nerfs/buffs be an important discussion this early into a games life. The game needs to breath, tech needs to be discovered & ways to "kombat" issues needs to be found. But it's the resorting to asking for nerfs & buffs because a player wants to take the easy route out instead of putting in the time to figure out ways to get around it. The "I can't beat it so fix/remove it" mentality is not a good thing for anyone in this community. Now having mature discussions to figure out how to maybe as a last resort fix something, YES, please discuss it, talk about it, but the crying, whining, ranting........no, just NO.

But good stuff Jeremiah. Thanks for posting this.

 

[silva_777]

I have an idea....

Test the game properly before you release it.

Infinites and bugs are subject to hotfixes and not patches, if there's a bug I want it out of the game as soon as possible, and not to wait that NRS decide to patch numerous things altogether.

 

[SaltShaker]

I'm over here telling people about other things in the game besides Kung jin in order to help provide the most info possible before a patch. BTW sonya and quan chi are most likely #1 not scorpion and Kung jin.

Definitely can't agree with those two being better than Jin and Scorpion. No way in hell. That's like me saying "Cyber Kano's zoning is being overhyped, focus on Liu Kang's zoning instead". But that's opinion vs opinion.

I just see it the other way around. If we did, say wait 3 months before a patch, then the tyranny of the bs in the game would only get worse not better when players find superior ways to exploit it.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Definitely can't agree with those two being better than Jin and Scorpion. No way in hell. That's like me saying "Cyber Kano's zoning is being overhyped, focus on Liu Kang's zoning instead". But that's opinion vs opinion.

I just see it the other way around. If we did, say wait 3 months before a patch, then the tyranny of the bs in the game would only get worse not better when players find superior ways to exploit it.

Have you seen drone sonya and summoner quan?

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

nerf kung jin bojutsu, sub zero GM

buff kenshi, and use the patch to add smoke to the main roster without charging us money

 

[Scoot Magee]

I refuse to ask for a patch until we see things fleshed out Unless it's totally game breaking or obvious.

 

[SaltShaker]

Have you seen drone sonya and summoner quan?

I've played and been utterly destroyed by a really good Summoner player for two hours straight just a few days ago for the 3rd time. But I attribute that to him being a superior player than me and not fully exploiting his weaknesses when I had knockdowns or was at close range. I think in another couple of weeks I can abuse his disadvantages and make our sets less lopsided.

Haven't played a really good Sonya yet, but I have a hard time seeing how any of it is more powerful than Bojutsu, Hellfire, or Inferno unless we're talking about a removable glitch.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

The bias is very strong with this OP haha, but I am not going to comment on this, I will let people believe what they want .

 

[Reauxbot]

I just find it weird that people ask for some characters to be nerfed cause this or that is broken. But then there are other people dealing with said problem easily.
Not to discredit Wonderchef. But maybe people couldn't or didnt know how to deal with Quans zoning with the game being new. Look how Filipino Champ got handeled by Kotal Khan. He let him gain a ton of life in the Sun. Not sure how much he played MKX but hes a Marvel God and a well known high level SF player.
Justin Wong i heard got destroyed.
Some of the high level players are struggling too. But let everyone learn how this and that works. Some things arent broken. Theyre just annoying lol.
Zoning characters are supposed to give you shit. I dont play QC but why give him shit for him serving his purpose?
Hawkeye was a pain in the ass when the game came out. Till people learned how to deal with him. Wesker too. But he didnt win too many majors. If he even won one.

Sorry for using Marvel. But its the only game i know well enough.
Superman was a whole other kind of deal. I forgot who that superman main was that was killing it every tournament.

 

[Briggs8417]

It'd be nice to at least no about them ahead of time, oh and what they actually consist of. That's all I really care about.

 

[Sultani]

Here is the problem I see. One, is NRS is really quick to react without really evaluating everything. Recently, there was a video posted about Kitana glave having a weird hitbox on characters. But, it wasn't really a universal issue and it mattered on smaller hitbox characters only and only out of certain strings. NRS patched it, and now Kitana has a corner infinite. Well done.

This is why people don't want quick patches, they don't want devs to rush to fix something just to fuck up the next thing. That's just the reality of the way NRS does patching. They do a lot up front, without letting the meta-game develop and others find things and figure things out. Then they just let it go and you're kind of stuck with what you got. That really sucks for us in the long run. I will take a quick, early patch but only if they also promise to commit to patching a year into the game's life.

To be fair, I think the early patches should only fix the infinites if anything. The actual broken shit, and then let the game go for a bit to see who figures what out and finds some other dirt. The actual big patch should be maybe 4-5 months into the life of the game. This is what stealthpatches and quickfixes are for. For early balance and fixing. Everything else should be addressed when it needs to.

Agree. If people want something that's bugged to be patched, it's implied that they want it to be patched correctly. The problem isn't people wanting patches or trying to patch things and fix them, it's that NRS doesn't test how the patches impact gameplay. It's not our fault that their solution was stupid and wrong. That doesn't mean patches area bad idea. It means NRS doesn't test shit.

 

[Reauxbot]

The bias is very strong with this OP haha, but I am not going to comment on this, I will let people believe what they want .

Im actually interested in the opinions of a well respected high level player. And you technically commented foo
Itd be a help to help with some insight rather than view the fighting from a distance like Goku does before all his fights *cough* Lord Beerus

 

[Scoot Magee]

I've played and been utterly destroyed by a really good Summoner player for two hours straight just a few days ago for the 3rd time. But I attribute that to him being a superior player than me and not fully exploiting his weaknesses when I had knockdowns or was at close range. I think in another couple of weeks I can abuse his disadvantages and make our sets less lopsided.

Haven't played a really good Sonya yet, but I have a hard time seeing how any of it is more powerful than Bojutsu, Hellfire, or Inferno unless we're talking about a removable glitch.

I know my character is very good. I've been very vocal about this. I'm trying to help people understand the game more. The thing is the game is 2 weeks old. Who's to say in a few days a better character wont emerge? This shit happened in other games already.

In the end the more understanding of the game we have the better a patch can be. Little changes along the way lessen our understanding of the overall balance.

Also your post proves that with time and effort you don't necessarily need a patch to win.

 

[Awsumpossm]

Actually the real question is, who is your main in MKX? Kung Jin?

You must really think Kung Jin is OP, as yesterday you did this exact same thing.

Just because somebody downplays a (in your opinion) strong character doesn't mean that they main that character , different people play different characters and thus have completely different experiences when fighting against said characters.

I know you're not calling for nerfs though, you just want to discuss it. And you are indeed correct: the real question is "who is your main?" because everything in terms of balance changes from there.

 

[Brown Cow 54]

The problem is that NRS does not beta test their games. So in effect the first 6 months of the game, becomes the beta test. When it is all said and done and people have learned the final version of the game and the not so obvious broken things are found, there are no more patches for the things that should be fixed. This results in people eagerly moving on to the next game because they no longer want to deal with what feels like an unfinished game.

I've never really understood this. So other companies can give you the game that they themselves completed without any input from the community and call it a "beta" and any problems that are found are OK because "it's a beta". But if a company releases their game fully with the capability to patch it down the road and some small balance issues are found it's not OK because they didn't call it a beta? Kind of bugs me how certain pc games are in " beta" for years so that when the game is finally "released" it doesn't have any problems. Of course it doesn't people have been playing it for years. And they still have balance issues and continue to patch. Anyway if you're talking about something else then my bad.

 

[SGX]

One of the biggest frustrations with patching early and often is when a character has something that seems overpowered, it gets instantly nerfed and then later on it's like "whoops, they actually needed that"

 

[Sultani]

It's not the you can't talk about it, it's the way things are, how they are brought up, and when.

Absolutely under any circumstances should tier lists & nerfs/buffs be an important discussion this early into a games life. The game needs to breath, tech needs to be discovered & ways to "kombat" issues needs to be found. But it's the resorting to asking for nerfs & buffs because a player wants to take the easy route out instead of putting in the time to figure out ways to get around it. The "I can't beat it so fix/remove it" mentality is not a good thing for anyone in this community. Now having mature discussions to figure out how to maybe as a last resort fix something, YES, please discuss it, talk about it, but the crying, whining, ranting........no, just NO.

But good stuff Jeremiah. Thanks for posting this.

If you really look at it, most of the time people aren't complaining, crying, whining, or ranting. People justsay they are when they aren't.

Towards the end of MK9, I said that one of the best things they could do is to somehow have move specific damage reset timers, so they could tweak properties of individual moves and remove kinks and bugs without having to worry about how it would F up other things. It may be impractical, but I still feel this way.

@Scoot Magee I stand by what I said. His range is better. His jump in is better. He is safer. 11 ji2 11 ji2 11 ji2 11 ji2. there are videos showing his jump in punch stuffing rmor. So yes. also better block strings. Not to mention tht's one of the easiest things to hit confirm into 40%, plus if you decide to, you can make it a completely safe 50/50. Scorpion has 50/50s too, but they aren't completely safe.

Youcan think scorpion is better, that's fine. But I disagree.

Sonya though.. she's really..... really good.

 

[Awsumpossm]

People don't understand. It is not about whether something is beatable or not, it's about making a better game.

It really doesnt take a genius to figure this out.

Here is the problem I see. One, is NRS is really quick to react without really evaluating everything. Recently, there was a video posted about Kitana glave having a weird hitbox on characters. But, it wasn't really a universal issue and it mattered on smaller hitbox characters only and only out of certain strings. NRS patched it, and now Kitana has a corner infinite. Well done.

This is why people don't want quick patches, they don't want devs to rush to fix something just to fuck up the next thing. That's just the reality of the way NRS does patching. They do a lot up front, without letting the meta-game develop and others find things and figure things out. Then they just let it go and you're kind of stuck with what you got. That really sucks for us in the long run. I will take a quick, early patch but only if they also promise to commit to patching a year into the game's life.

To be fair, I think the early patches should only fix the infinites if anything. The actual broken shit, and then let the game go for a bit to see who figures what out and finds some other dirt. The actual big patch should be maybe 4-5 months into the life of the game. This is what stealthpatches and quickfixes are for. For early balance and fixing. Everything else should be addressed when it needs to.

These two quotes pretty much sum up everything