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Discussion Patches overwhelmingly help NRS games not hurt them

Do you think NRS patching strategy is much better this time?

  • Yes

    Votes: 74 60.2%
  • No

    Votes: 36 29.3%
  • In between overeall

    Votes: 13 10.6%

  • Total voters
    123
There is a lot of discussion going on about how patches ruin NRS games and anyone who even thinks about discussing patches should be tarred and feathered and ostracized from the TYM community. I would like to give some ammunition to people on this sight that feel like they are not allowed to discuss MKX balance for fear of being called a "complainer" or even worse. Please discuss this game, talk about it, wonder out loud if you think something is overpowered or underpowered. In fact that is what this sight is supposed to be about, the open discussion of things, not people telling you "you shouldn't talk about this or that".

I would like to back my claim up with evidence. Let us please examine Injustice's patches. Awhile ago Slips got into an argument with MIT about whether patches were good for Injustice or bad. Slips then challenged MIT to go back and look at Injustice patches to see if they were an overall positive, or overall negative to Injustice. MIT is super busy in college and did not have the time to go through the Injustice patches so I did. Here is what I found.

Here are the links for my data.
http://www.injustice.com/en/news/updated-520-injustice-patch-v103-release-notes (Injustice first patch 05/20/2013)
http://www.injustice.com/en/news/injustice-patch-v104-release-notes (Injustice 2nd patch 06/04/2013)
http://www.injustice.com/en/news/injustice-patch-v105-release-notes (Injustice 3rd patch 06/26/13)
http://www.injustice.com/en/news/patch-106-release-notes (Injustice 4th patch 09/24/13)

MIT's main complaint was that characters like Deathstroke, and Scorpion got unfairly nerfed and that ruined Injustice. But I added up the changes and found that the positive changes were overwhelmingly positive and very rarely hurt Injustice, on a factor of 8/10. That means that 80% of the changes that happened helped Injustice be a better game, and 20% of the changes from the patch hurt the game.

Here they are.

1.03: 34 positive changes. 5 negative changes.
Changes of note in this patch.
  • Broken characters like Aquaman, Superman are nerfed
  • Low tier characters like Bane, Joker, Lobo, Raven, Shazam, Sinestro and Catwoman buffed
  • Many unblockable's and insane block damage strings fixed.
  • To be fair to the "patches are bad crowd" I added the Deathstroke nerfs and the Sinestro trait buffs as negatives to give them the benefit of the doubt.
1.04: 4 positives and 1 negative
  • Mostly bug fixes but added a buff to Flash as a negative because possible Flash didn't need it.
1.05: 23 positive and 8 negatives.
  • This had many positive things like more Superman nerfs
  • But also had negatives like numerous Scorpion nerfs
1.06: The patch that saved Injustice. 89 positive changes. 18 negative changes. Also all of the negative changes I am giving the naysayers the benefit of the doubt if a nerf or buff was questionable I added it to the negative column. Notable changes in this patch where

  • Nerfs to characters like Aquaman, Batgirl, Blackadam backdash etc. Superman and Zod
  • Buffs to a plethora of characters like Catwoman, Green Arrow, Lobo, Lex Luthor, Joker, Zatanna etc.
Negatives I added
  • 1 MMH buff, but he also got 1 nerf too (even though the buff outweighed the nerf), possible too many nerfs to Black Adam, and possible too many buffs to Bane.
Also take note that the FINAL Injustice patch too place before the game was even 6 months OLD! So the people that are telling you "you are not allowed to discuss patches until 6 months in are just absolutely crazy and out of touch.

So in closing the patches to Injustice included 150 positive changes and 32 negative changes. Patches saved Injustice.

My only hope with this post is to free people up to discuss what is on your minds. Please let us open up discussion instead of trying to stop people from talking. Thank you.
 

Attachments

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Maybe if they waited longer to patch there would have been less negative changes. I don't think it could hurt to wait a longer amount of time before making final decisions. I'm not a fan of machine gun patches within a course of 6 months before letting the game evolve. We could have been left with a much better game if they waited longer and made one balance patch.

I'm not against speaking about game balance but patching so early on unless it's something totally broken should not happen. People do speak out about what they want patched and etc but 9 times out of 10 it's somebody that's ignorant to a lot of other things in the game.

The more we know about the game the better a patch could be.
 

Awkward Sloth

Lamest Harley, still better sloth than Jer
Which patch is the one that'll help prevent Sonicfox from winning everything? :DOGE

On a serious note patches can be good but should continue on for at least a full year of the games life. Some things get over looked like Batgirls infinite and Harley's B3 b3 clash able and hot fixes are more of a band aid then a real solution. *See any tourney that had to deal with hot fix issues. Which was a lot and cost a butt load of time and caused pools/matches to not be streamed. And set tournies back a good amount of time. Not really nrs's fault but still.

Patches keep things fresh. Tiers adjust and you see more character variety for the most part.
 

Shaazzyam

undefeated online evo champion
seriously, this is common sense. some people are just butthurt over what happened to scorpion that now they believe waiting a year to patch anything is somehow a good idea

those certain people should just focus more on play fighting games instead of talking about them, please.
 
My advice would be just to ignore anyone saying "game is new give it time."

They scroll past explanations of things that objectively don't fit that mold because most people agree with it, which is strange.

Infinites need to be removed, glitches and stage bugs need to be fixed. While it may be true that it's too early for significant nerfs, there are things that game knowledge and time can't deal with.

Glad someone that people respect posted this. Anyone else would get 15 pages of flaming, thread locked, or moved to the complaining thread when they aren't complaining.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
The one last patch that we always desperate need after the game being fully fleshed out is the one we never got.

I know MKX has 2 weeks old only, but there are clearly things that will need a patch, i've been seeing some of them already, and they aren't that big but will make a big impact in the game without necessarily hurt any character in general.

But lets see, i just hope people don't be afraid to discuss what they feel about the game, for instance there is some things i'm in agreement with the rest of the community

Kenshi could use some slight buffs
Shinnok could use some slight buffs
Kitana could use some slight buffs
Johnny Cage could use some slight buffs
Kotal blood god and sun god could use some light buffs
I've been listening the Scorpion community saying about the damage from Ninjutsu and the B2 xcalin in general, and i agree that some things needs to be changed.

But let us give at least a month for the game, i've been compiling a list of things that could be changed for better with a little small tweaks, that i think it would do no arm listen what the community in general think of their characters and analysing to compile a community list for changes, then NRS would just decide on their own if Buffing X Y or Z option is viable, or they could find a better solution for it, as they do when they take up our suggestions.
 
I am just sayin some people who are always for the patching are suddenly against patching because they happen to have a good character. I remember very well the people who asked for nerfs for characters in previous games but are magically changing the opinions now.

I agree that we shouldn't patch things yet obiously , but not for the same reason as some people. I'd say wait 2 months before you apply some small changes. What I never understood is why a certain move can't get a small nerf instead of getting raped. What I have often seen is that weak characters get buffs and strong characters get nerfs. You dont need to do both, just do one and preferrably just buffs.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Do people honestly think that MK9 and Injustice should have went a year before being patched? Who would have still played it seriously if pre-patch Superman, BA, Kabal, Cyrax, Kung Lao and Aquaman were allowed free reign for a year?
Look how good the game is now. The dlc characters went practically untouched. Sure blatantly broken bullshit should be fixed but They're done patching the game and there's a ton of broken, stupid garbage in the game still.

Why is it so crazy to make sure we know our game well before making changes. A game is still in its infancy stages 6 months in. This is why these games die every 2 years.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Look how good the game is now. The dlc characters went practically untouched. Sure blatantly broken bullshit should be fixed but They're done patching the game and there's a ton of broken, stupid garbage in the game still.

Why is it so crazy to make sure we know our game well before making changes. A game is still in its infancy stages 6 months in. This is why these games die every 2 years.
Injustice is much better than it was pre-patch, don't pretend. The DLC are silly yeah but the game could still use one more patch. Did you miss the point of my post entirely? Those games had stuff that was shit in them, everyone knew it before 6 months was up and they got patched for the better.

And MK9 died because it's trash from a competitive standpoint and we knew it wasn't getting fixed, and Injustice died because ultimately it was filler for MKX. Don't kid yourself.

Take Kung Jin as he's the whipping boy at the minute, it's not hard to see that he does too much meterless damage from practically any confirm in a game where everybody has to use meter to get the same as he gets for nothing, nor is it hard to see that he has safe 50/50's (one's even neutral on block because that's fair). People are saying give it time which is fine, but these facts aren't going to change in 2 months. If Kung Jin really needs a slight nerf then talking about patching him in a smart and considered way is exactly what people should be doing, along with what ever else needs balancing.
 
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Why is it so crazy to make sure we know our game well before making changes. A game is still in its infancy stages 6 months in. This is why these games die every 2 years.
Because, again, there are glitches and bugs and infinifes that "knowing the game well" doesnt fix.

In addition to the short list above, you are cray if you think mileenas pokes and ex telekick and xray were intended to be wiff punishable when they hit. Just a couple examples of things that arent fixed with knowing the game more.

Games die every two years because the company makes a new game and stops paying attention to the old one.

The end result of cyrax was the most broken version there was.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Injustice is much better than it was pre-patch, don't pretend. The DLC are silly yeah but the game could still use one more patch. Did you miss the point of my post entirely? Those games had stuff that was shit in them, everyone knew it before 6 months was up and they got patched for the better.

And MK9 died because it's trash from a competitive standpoint and we knew it wasn't getting fixed, and Injustice died because ultimately it was filler for MKX. Don't kid yourself.

Take Kung Jin as he's the whipping boy at the minute, it's not hard to see that he does too much meterless damage from practically any confirm in a game where everybody has to use meter to get the same as he gets for nothing, nor is it hard to see that he has safe 50/50's (one's even neutral on block because that's fair). People are saying give it time which is fine, but these facts aren't going to change in 2 months. If Kung Jin really needs a slight nerf then talking about patching him in a smart and considered way is exactly what people should be doing, along with what ever else needs balancing.
I didn't miss your point. I acknowledged that things that were blatantly obvious Should have been fixed. I'm just making the case that patching everything early in the games life and leaving off with a final patch 6 months in is a bad way to go about it. Injustice may be better than it was at launch but it still sucks imo. There's a ton of stupid garbage left in the game because of how quickly they move on. I know you agree with that because you said the game could use another patch.

My argument really is to let the other bs be found before making final decisions. They spend so many resources machine gun patching the games and then they move on. Let's make the process a little slower.

Just an example is the fact that Kung jin seems to be everyone's focus right now when there's so many characters that can deal with him just fine at the moment. Not to mention there's characters that are arguably way better. Let's just wait and see.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Because, again, there are glitches and bugs and infinifes that "knowing the game well" doesnt fix.

In addition to the short list above, you are cray if you think mileenas pokes and ex telekick and xray were intended to be wiff punishable when they hit. Just a couple examples of things that arent fixed with knowing the game more.

Games die every two years because the company makes a new game and stops paying attention to the old one.

The end result of cyrax was the most broken version there was.
You didn't quote the paragraph where I said blatantly obvious bs should be fixed.
 
You didn't quote the paragraph where I said blatantly obvious bs should be fixed.
That's because it would make it look like I'm less right! yay internet!

lol but for real though. Nerf and Buff discussions need to be separated from glitch and bug fix discussions.

The difference of opinion with waiting things out and patching sooner rather than later are not catch alls for both of these things at the same time. They are way too different and should be handled differently.

Anyway.. people have found obvious bugs. Those can be patched. Nerfs? some are probably a good thing, but I''d prefer minor buffs if anything I suppose.
 

chemist4hire

I Got Guiled
The problem is that NRS does not beta test their games. So in effect the first 6 months of the game, becomes the beta test. When it is all said and done and people have learned the final version of the game and the not so obvious broken things are found, there are no more patches for the things that should be fixed. This results in people eagerly moving on to the next game because they no longer want to deal with what feels like an unfinished game.