MK9 & NEC Discussion: Ft. R.E.O., AtK, & Clark

[RM AtK!]

Hi am using a mobile phone so I can't see the video can u please send me the video URL but edit it e.g you!tube.com/watch then I will just delete the "!" So that I can see the video thanks

watch?v=U8rM-0nEyEE

 

[Big Pampering]

he does have great pokes.. im saying smoke has good everything all around... but hes not the best at anything. he's a jack of all trades, master of none. i think you're missing the point i think smoke is really solid.

and yo this is just my opinion on some matters.. im not going to force you to agree? its just my thoughts on it. simmer down m8

Imo smoke has the best poke moveset in the game d1/d3/d4 are all very good

 

[RM AtK!]

Imo smoke has the best poke moveset in the game d1/d3/d4 are all very good

when did i say his pokes werent good? o_o

 

[Big Pampering]

when did i say his pokes werent good? o_o

I was referring to the part where you said he wasnt the best at anything

 

[RM AtK!]

I was referring to the part where you said he wasnt the best at anything

I meant that in the aspect of zoning / rushdown part of the game. But ya man his pokes are super solid indeed! he def has one of the best d movesets.. theres a quite a few ppl with insanely good d1s d3 d4s etc i dont think anyone actually has THE BEST all of them though, but i respect your opinion theres def nothing wrong with his poking game. agreeed

 

[DarthArma]

oh cool a podcast on TYM, let me listen.

This is MK9 and I dont know whats happening

 

[Jimmypotato]

"I think Kitana-Kenshi might be 4-6." I mean, we call Kung Lao-Cage 4-6, or Kung Lao-Sonya 4-6, or any of Lao's bad match-ups. There's no way in hell Kung Lao has as much a hard time against these characters as Kitana does against Kenshi.

Though I agree with REO about the points he brings up re: Cage.

EDIT: "There's no way Smoke is better than Cage. He has nothing those characters have. He has nothing that's great."

Oh boy, and that's only 5 minutes in.

Don't take this as criticism, this gets discussion going and I'm loving this, but the above statement is absolutely ridiculous. Smoke has nothing that's great. No great damage. No great anti air. No great footsies. Smoke bomb isn't great. No great pokes. No great runaway. B2 isn't great either. Nope.

EDIT 2: "If you can't block a 15 frame overhead, I don't know what to tell you." Holy fucking shit.

Also a 50/50 is not a vortex. Nobody ever said Smoke has a vortex. At least I hope not.

You just said Smoke has nothing great,

Did you play Mk9?? Honestly??

No great damage? No great AA???

No great Runaway??


I'm no sure if you are joking here so I need clarification.

 

[legion666]

Shang's morphback vulnerability is about 2-3 frames, but it is dangerous against characters like Kabal, Cage, Cyrax... Others who can end a combo in a standing reset. Because if they start a combo on Shang when he is morphed they can just immediately start a new combo after a standing reset and he won't have time to block)

 

[Big Pampering]

I meant that in the aspect of zoning / rushdown part of the game. But ya man his pokes are super solid indeed! he def has one of the best d movesets.. theres a quite a few ppl with insanely good d1s d3 d4s etc i dont think anyone actually has THE BEST all of them though, but i respect your opinion theres def nothing wrong with his poking game. agreeed

There are quite a few characters with good pokes. Smoke obviously doesnt have the best d4(mileena, subzero, cyrax, sonya), d1(kitana) and I am not sure about his d3, it has a very good hitbox but does it lower smokes hitbox like kenshis d3 does?

But the reason I say Smoke has the best pokeset in the game because I believe he is the only character in the game to have a good version of all 3 pokes, all other characters happen to have at least one sucky version out of the 3 pokes. His d4 is good, his d3 has hella range, and his d1 is the second best in the game imo.

 

[legion666]

Also about Shang morphing into Cyrax: He can land a complete reset AS Cyrax only if he starts a combo immediately after the EX SoulSteal. He can however start a reset as Cyrax and, if timed right, turn back into Shang to reset with his Soul Steal instead of a net) JAP showed this a long time a go

 

[ForeverKing]

You just said Smoke has nothing great,

Did you play Mk9?? Honestly??

No great damage? No great AA???

No great Runaway??


I'm no sure if you are joking here so I need clarification.

He was being sarcastic

 

[Insuperable]

Best d3 hitboxes NPO:
Kenshi
Jade
Skarlet
Kung Lao
Smoke
Shang Tsung
Kitana
Noob
Ermac

Best d4 hitboxes NPO:
Baraka
Mileena
Sonya
Reptile
Sub Zero

 

[RM AtK!]

There are quite a few characters with good pokes. Smoke obviously doesnt have the best d4(mileena, subzero, cyrax, sonya), d1(kitana) and I am not sure about his d3, it has a very good hitbox but does it lower smokes hitbox like kenshis d3 does?

But the reason I say Smoke has the best pokeset in the game because I believe he is the only character in the game to have a good version of all 3 pokes, all other characters happen to have at least one sucky version out of the 3 pokes. His d4 is good, his d3 has hella range, and his d1 is the second best in the game imo.

yeah he has def sick pokes and i agree with everything you said. i think shang / kenshi / lao / smoke all have good complete sets like low profile d3's / good d1's / and d4s

oh but for best d1 hitboxes i think - Scorpion / kenshi / (smoke cage kitana shang in no order really) / Kabal would be my order give or take

 

[Big Pampering]

yeah he has def sick pokes and i agree with everything you said. i think shang / kenshi / lao / smoke all have good complete sets like low profile d3's / good d1's / and d4s

oh but for best d1 hitboxes i think - Scorpion / kenshi / (smoke cage kitana shang in no order really) / Kabal would be my order give or take

Yeah forgot all about shangs but kung laos pokes do havr a downside to them d3 is 9 frames and d1 is 7 frames. His d4 is just as good as smokes though.

 

[Insuperable]

Yeah forgot all about shangs but kung laos pokes do havr a downside to them d3 is 9 frames and d1 is 7 frames. His d4 is just as good as smokes though.

d3 spin is better than d1, if you're talking about AA. d3 hitbox will make any jump attack whiff on crossup, and the opponent cannot block after whiffing a deep jump kick or punch. d3 is also better as a footsies tool/poking out of pressure because his d3 is so low that it can go under some normals, and it can't be punished on block.

 

[STRYKIE]

Best d4 hitboxes NPO:
Baraka
Mileena
Sonya
Reptile
Sub Zero

I'm gonna guess you just happened to forget about Cyrax.

You just said Smoke has nothing great,

Did you play Mk9?? Honestly??

No great damage? No great AA???

No great Runaway??


I'm no sure if you are joking here so I need clarification.

His AA game has definitely been exaggerated in some areas. I still see Smoke's standing 2 being hammed up as one of the best AAs in the game when the hitbox on it is relatively stubby in all honesty. Not to say it's bad, it's definitely serviceable and leads to some damn fine rewards with the right execution, but by itself, it's not categorically excellent.

 

[Insuperable]

I'm gonna guess you just happened to forget about Cyrax.

Cyrax has one of the best d4s in the game, but in no way does it lower hit hitbox to the degree of the rest. Hitbox is high, animation is mid.

 

[STRYKIE]

Cyrax has one of the best d4s in the game, but in no way does it lower hit hitbox to the degree of the rest. Hitbox is high, animation is mid.

It lowers his hitbox to a very decpetive degree. Like, to the point where I don't blame people for not noticing lol.

Good example of this is Cyrax's D4 vs Sektor's B2. Both are 13 frames but with frame perfect execution, Cyrax's D4 will always high crush B2 regardless of who's player 1.

 

[RM AtK!]

It lowers his hitbox to a very decpetive degree. Like, to the point where I don't blame people for not noticing lol.

Good example of this is Cyrax's D4 vs Sektor's B2. Both are 13 frames but with frame perfect execution, Cyrax's D4 will always high crush B2 regardless of who's player 1.

i think what soup is saying though is crossover kicks and shit hit cyrax d4 alot.. like the hurtbox isnt exactly what it looks like. even though it looks really low for some reason it has a larger hitbox.

 

[Big Pampering]

d3 spin is better than d1, if you're talking about AA. d3 hitbox will make any jump attack whiff on crossup, and the opponent cannot block after whiffing a deep jump kick or punch. d3 is also better as a footsies tool/poking out of pressure because his d3 is so low that it can go under some normals, and it can't be punished on block.

Was just talking about kl's d3 in comparison to other d3's, the best d3's are usually 7 frames.

 

[STRYKIE]

i think what soup is saying though is crossover kicks and shit hit cyrax d4 alot.. like the hurtbox isnt exactly what it looks like. even though it looks really low for some reason it has a larger hitbox.

I see, yeah it's definitely not as good of a makeshift anti crossup as Sonya's/Mileena's is, I can agree to that.

 

[coolwhip]

You just said Smoke has nothing great,

Did you play Mk9?? Honestly??

No great damage? No great AA???

No great Runaway??


I'm no sure if you are joking here so I need clarification.

Ummm, it's called sarcasm. "Smoke has nothing great" was something that was said on the podcast and I'm blowing it up. Jeez.

 

[STRYKIE]

Okay, I finished watching the rest of this, here's what I think of the discussed topics, for what it's worth:

Matchup bills 1:

I do think Kitana has more to work with against Kenshi than some of Kenshi's other 8-2s, and therefore it's a 7-3, buuuuut:

I have to disagree with Kenshi/Cage not being 8-2, in the hands of a seasoned Kenshi player in that matchup specifically, there is honestly nothing Cage is better at. Even up close, Kenshi has more freedom since the Cage player is too paranoid about when Kenshi will cash in with armor/Charge.

I also can't see Cage going 5-5 with Freddy, regardless of stage size. If you learn how to buffer D1~NMS properly within pressure (admittedly it's probably awkward to do online), there's not much Cage can do about it, if he attempts to counterpoke with F3, it'll whiff and give you leeway to bus driver uppercut him into 40% with NMS1 lol.

The top 5/10 discussion:

I think most would agree the top 6 goes like this in NPO:
Kabal, Cyrax, Kenshi, Kung Lao, Sonya, Freddy.

That leaves 4 slots, and even then, there's about 10 different characters vying for them:

Cage, Reptile, Liu Kang, Kitana, Smoke, Shang, Skarlet, Jax, Sektor, Raiden.

Now, you can make a stronger case for some more than others, but honestly, I don't think any of them are a lock. The "there's no way a character that has X, Y and Z is not top 10" argument doesn't really hold much weight in a game as wholly messed up as MK9 lol.

Matchup bills 2:

Shang vs Smoke and Cyrax - Being able to soul steal makes sense on paper as far as neutering the matchup goes, but due to the nature of how they dish out their damage, it doesn't really give enough time to do a 160% BNB or whatever.

Also, soul steal exploits are not impractical in a real match. It all depends on how much advantage the last move you used before the morphback grants.

Smoke vs Freddy being 8-2 - Okay, hands up, who actually thinks this besides Croatian-Americans with normalphobia?

That's pretty much all I have to say. Good shit to Reo, Wiz and Clark, NEC can't some soon enough.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

inb4 Dave goes apeshit on the Smoke/Freddy matchup. That match still sucks either way you say it..

As far as reacting to 15 frame overheads...well...

 

[coolwhip]

Finished this. Enjoyable listen. Some extreme downplaying and odd statements aside.