Strategy - Master of Storms Master of Storms - Wonders

[Barrogh]

Off topic, but hey...

Whereas I feel naked without my teleport. In the neutral, I walk back A LOT and this ends up putting me in the corner quickly. Displacer solves that problem down to a T.

Any plans on dropping a few videos?

 

[GamerBlake90]

Off topic, but hey...

Any plans on dropping a few videos?

I'm not sure when exactly. I still haven't really found my groove with the game. The fact that you can instantly cancel the run into anything foils my attempts to check players' movements, which irks me a great deal.

Not to mention the blockstun fucking with my punishes. That is a PAIN IN THE ASS.

 

[Slayhawk84]

These are my new BnBs after catching them in a trap.

Meterless Orb:
F22+4->DF4 or DB4

Meterless damage:
F22+4->BF3

1 meter Orb:
F22+4->(EX)DF2, B14->DF4 or DB4

1 meter damage:
F22+4->(EX)DF2, B111+3

2 meter Orb:
F22+4->(EX)DF2, B14->(EX)DB3, 34->DF4 or DB4

2 meter damage:
F22+4->(EX)DF2, B14->(EX)DB3, B111+3

I default to F22+4 to start because I'm often too far away for anything else to reach, but if you're close enough you can replace it with NJP, 34, or B14.

I'm still working on creating effective setups for keeping trap pressure going. I don't think we've found any of the really dirty stuff yet, but I have a few tricks I'm typing up.

 

[KowtowRobinson]

What can MoS do to utilize F1 in his game? Losing the F1 Thunder God string and only having access to the much shittier F1,4 string is a huge loss, and a big part of what makes Displacer and MoS less popular imo. If MoS had a meaningful way to continue using that 5 frame mid in F1, I think people might be more willing to explore the possibility of making a switch from TG Raiden.

 

[Jb879212]

What can MoS do to utilize F1 in his game? Losing the F1 Thunder God string and only having access to the much shittier F1,4 string is a huge loss, and a big part of what makes Displacer and MoS less popular imo. If MoS had a meaningful way to continue using that 5 frame mid in F1, I think people might be more willing to explore the possibility of making a switch from TG Raiden.

Lol that's all you get once you make the switch. 5 frame punish w/ hard knock down or 5 frame anti air into maybe sometimes a combo if you're really good/focused. Someone is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong though.

 

[mrtom]

Lol that's all you get once you make the switch. 5 frame punish w/ hard knock down or 5 frame anti air into maybe sometimes a combo if you're really good/focused. Someone is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong though.

Plus a free orb or ex orb on the knockdown for mixup potential.

 

[mrtom]

Just a few MoS setups/combos I've been messing around with. I'm working on another video with a lot more stuff but hopefully this will help people just starting MoS.

 

[Vilén]

I definitely have more fun with this style of Raiden than I do in the other two. Some things I've noticed though:

- I don't feel like there's a purpose to Up Orb, just with the way the traps work. Front Orb and Back Orb can span corner to corner and you still get the same benefit. Maybe I've been playing too much F/T and I'm going crazy.
- Is anyone else like... always out of meter?

I feel like this variation is fun as shit but just doesn't have a decent battery to charge meter.

 

[mrtom]

I definitely have more fun with this style of Raiden than I do in the other two. Some things I've noticed though:

- I don't feel like there's a purpose to Up Orb, just with the way the traps work. Front Orb and Back Orb can span corner to corner and you still get the same benefit. Maybe I've been playing too much F/T and I'm going crazy.
- Is anyone else like... always out of meter?

I feel like this variation is fun as shit but just doesn't have a decent battery to charge meter.

I have yet to find a practical use for up orbs, they just seem like a waste. The only situations I can think of that might warrant their use is vs moves like Melina's teleport kick or goro's tele stomp since it'll prevent the move from hitting you at all vs the ground orbs which will trade. It's still not worth it because if they come at you from the ground the trap is useless.

I usually don't have too much of an issue with meter unless I'm fighting someone very aggressive, then it can become an issue. I find that I usually have more meter than with the other styles since I rarely use it. I also chuck a lot of orbs which helps a little. I was experimenting with meter building in training and all 16 whiffed specials to build a full bar. For the orbs, if your opponent blocks the beam it takes 11 orbs for a full bar, lightning bolt and shocker take 8 blocks for a full bar. I cancel normals into orbs a lot, especially d4 xx orb and f2,2+4 xx orb which definitely helps build meter. Both of those on block take 4-5 blocks to make a full bar depending on if they block the beam or not.

One thing I've noticed is if your opponent ducks the beam you basically get a free jump-in. If they try to anti-air you without armor the beam hits and even if the beam disappears they usually don't have time do AA you. If the beam if still active and they don't stand to block it they get hit and caught in the beam for a followup.

 

[Barrogh]

The only use for up orbs I've seen in continuing combos after uppercut. Not that it's something practical to gun for, just looks fun.

 

[Vilén]

So for Up Orbs depending on the positioning of both players relative to Orb A if you feel like your opponent could read Orb B and avoid the trap with a back jump or, you might want to go for db4ub or df4uf to catch that.

Starting to think if you have your opponent in the corner with orb A out it might just be better over all to throw orb B in the air against some characters but also maybe not.

Some notes. Think Up Orb will be situational but useful. Probably some swag shit to be found with Orb Out corner combos.

@mrtom @Barrogh

 

[mrtom]

So for Up Orbs depending on the positioning of both players relative to Orb A if you feel like your opponent could read Orb B and avoid the trap with a back jump or, you might want to go for db4ub or df4uf to catch that.

Starting to think if you have your opponent in the corner with orb A out it might just be better over all to throw orb B in the air against some characters but also maybe not.

Some notes. Think Up Orb will be situational but useful. Probably some swag shit to be found with Orb Out corner combos.

@mrtom @Barrogh

That makes sense. I haven't played around with it yet but I figure if they're in the corner and you use a df4 orb it'll be right behind them so using a db4ub as the second orb, the beam will still keep them locked on the ground and catch them if they try and jump out.

If you use df4uf as the first and db4 as the second, the beam won't hit them unless they move forward, jump or reversal. This setup might actually have more mixup potential since they can't block the beam to make it disappear.

I initially thought MoS was very weak in the corner compared to TG but I'm discovering that it's actually very strong, it just requires different spacing. With TG you're basically right on top of them, but for MoS you want to stand back around d4 range. Keeping a little distance allows you to toss out an orb and since they can't move backwards, any move canceled into df4 places them in the beam. d4 xx orb is very useful here along with b1,4 xx orb, 214 xx orb and b3/b33 xx orb.

 

[ToxicBaraka1210]

Gonna try to explain best i can..forgive no vids but vs AI vids are useless.

The really dirty stuff comes from attacking when opponent has no meter. If your 3rd orb is on the screen already as a trap hits you can fry them around the screen provided you make proper reads. A simple example is 214 ex orb. If your next move is an immediate orb and the trap hits, continue your traps. Obviously read for tech rolls and a step before orb, or if they get meter for wake up sweep the armor so trap hits em anyways. If opponents block you get b33 low high mixup at same time. If youre there on time. And orbs and traps are where his meter comes from.

Obviously it takes getting used to, however i feel as though the traps only do 6% for a reason. You should be getting many traps as mos. Also they dont scale as 2 combod is 12 hits 12%. Theres also a way, obviously a glitch, to get an orb to stay on screen between rounds so starting next round with orb completes a trap. I havent dialed that in yet however.

Also the up orb is important to keep your grid up and the roof over your head so to speak. Not to mention the up orb forward orb trap(roof trap) is somehow more difficult to duck than just the flat traps. Also countless people will tech roll the flat trap to jump into roof trap to fall into flat trap again.

Im working on aggressive orb vids but so many people quit lol. Once you get a feel for it, you can decimate opponents whenever you land d4 to start a fight. Just D4, run in free 214 ex orb forward orb. Trap hits, back orb, then up orb forward orb and continue traps. By the time they look up 80% life is gone and you did nothing.

Oh, and for tougher matchups where traps are a bit more difficult...youre still Raiden.

 

[ToxicBaraka1210]

lately ive been finishing orb traps with f2 njp f2 2+4 shocker for 26%. solid damage no meter off trap..and if you wanna burn meter you can trap f2 njp f2+4 ex shocker into b14 superman for 35%. so 3 midscreen traps finished with one meter each is death. in corner you can blow 2 meters on it and get near 40 but in corner you should probably be making them block traps to get normal combo starter for bigger damage anyway. though handy for game ender if ya need a little extra.

also in corner, if you delay a little after trap hits you can b2 213 b111+3 for 31% no meter. or add a meter for 39% with 214 shocker instead of 213.

im sure tony and others will find more damaging stuff, but clearly theres ways to get enough damage off traps alone to win. this variation isnt even close to bad.

 

[skrone]

I'm thinking that the real utility of the traps is not so much big damage, but creating suffocating pressure.

 

[ToxicBaraka1210]

yes, but suffocating pressure requires constant reads and planning. if they block? if they duck...etc. you never know whats gonna happen until it does. of course you always have options for whatever they do...if they duck can overhead they block can throw etc but actually being on time with it is the hard part. in the end i believe theres definitely a balance between offensive traps and traps simply to open them up which is all opponent specific let alone matchup specifics.

 

[buyacushun]

The one problem I have is getting the first trap out. Your neutral game has to be ON POINT to get the first trap out and then you can have some fun . . . Sometimes. I would love if I could get a trap after a superman hit

Edit: and f1 being odd now. Tried to punish but it ended whiffing the roll after one of tanya's special. Great

 

[ToxicBaraka1210]

not sure bout f1 as a punish i never use it for that but an orb or ex trap will come out after f1 is blocked if that helps any. on whiff though the 4 will come out. what do you f1 into as a punish? just curious. there may be better ways to go idk.

 

[buyacushun]

not sure bout f1 as a punish i never use it for that but an orb or ex trap will come out after f1 is blocked if that helps any. on whiff though the 4 will come out. what do you f1 into as a punish? just curious. there may be better ways to go idk.

You sure because I think he is -6 on a blocked f1 so I don't see how a trap cancel isn't punished by everyone

 

[LRK128]

I don't play MoS Raiden myself but i played against a good one. I was a character he could zone like hell. When he knocked me down he'd put out an orb and leave it there. Eventually he'd go forward and push me back with a combo and then zone like hell. When I got about halfway to him, set up an orb far out and he could either back up and zone more or turn the pressure right back on me
it was a blockfest on my part most of the time

 

[ToxicBaraka1210]

You sure because I think he is -6 on a blocked f1 so I don't see how a trap cancel isn't punished by everyone

right, i wouldnt use it for that just saying its available. you said you were using f1 as a punish so if its definitely gonna hit you can get first orb out that way. it helps to get 2nd orb out on block sometimes though i wouldnt use it naked for just first orb. your better off hit confirming the whole f14 orb for first one. or something else altogether really.

though still curious why you punish with f1 as it doesnt lead to much as mos. do you have a nice f1 bnb for punish? though a bit slower, as punishes f2 into njp and even just 112 or f4 for knockdowns work a bit better if not going into 213/214/b33 full combos instead.

 

[buyacushun]

right, i wouldnt use it for that just saying its available. you said you were using f1 as a punish so if its definitely gonna hit you can get first orb out that way. it helps to get 2nd orb out on block sometimes though i wouldnt use it naked for just first orb. your better off hit confirming the whole f14 orb for first one. or something else altogether really.

though still curious why you punish with f1 as it doesnt lead to much as mos. do you have a nice f1 bnb for punish? though a bit slower, as punishes f2 into njp and even just 112 or f4 for knockdowns work a bit better if not going into 213/214/b33 full combos instead.

I was mostly using f1 as it's the fastest normal and i didnt know what to punish with. what do you mean f2 into njp?

 

[ToxicBaraka1210]

I was mostly using f1 as it's the fastest normal and i didnt know what to punish with. what do you mean f2 into njp?

ah ok. just sounded like for that moved you whiffed with tanya f2 still hits mid so you can maybe f2 into njp or ex shocker/rising thunder into combo. personally i use it after 213 midscreen to get into b14, as well as the mentioned trap finishing stuff. also d1 is also mid and only a frame slower and can go into ex shocker for combo as well. if that move only allows low punish use b33.

 

[buyacushun]

I've come to a conclusion that without near perfect neutral you just lose out on too much for not picking TG Raiden. Still gonna use this character but he just feels lacking to me. Also feel that all corner combos need to end in b1,1,1+3 to be able to place a trap. Midscreen i think you can get away with a bit more. I'm not too great with labbing things but the way MoS frames are right now everything seems pretty straightforward.

 

[ToxicBaraka1210]

for the record if you win your first round with a trap and immediately orb as it kills them that orb will stay on screen through the round break and you can get 2nd out to start next round.