General/Other - Hat Trick Kung Lao Hat Trick Variation General Discussion

[UsedForGlue]

Hat trick is better than buzz saw IMO.

It has a very injustice style game plan and best used against characters that the backdash works against.

Has some tempest like pressure options, if ex hat call back had armour or 112124 hat trap was +2 or +3 on block, then we'd be talking business.

Hat Trick buff eagerly awaited...

 

[just_2swift]

Hat Trick buff eagerly awaited...

He should be able to call back hat trap back while coming out of teleport. Imo he should be able to throw hat trap while in the air.

 

[BLOOD CAPTAIN X]

Hat trick IMO is a great variation I feel it need only 1 adjustment which is.

Only have the hat return to his head if he is knocked down not simply hit.

The reason for this suggestion.
There has been several times where I'd call the hat back on my opponents wake up it's just about to hit them and it pops back on my head because I got poked. That is very frustrating.

As for the general gameplan of hat trick, someone said this before me and I completely agree. A lot of people think the variation is trash because there not used to playing Kung Lao this way.

Kung Lao players are accustomed to being aggressive and keeping their foot on the gas to force there opponent to screwing up.

Hat trick however is more footsie based and about controlling space. A defensive Kung Lao player is more suited to hat trick. It's a variation for someone who likes to apply pressure then randomly ease off to trick your opponent into believing he can do stuff then you catch him with the set up (the hat call back into a combo)

I've been practicing this variation exclusively since launch and although it does have its problems it's far from trash it still a good option in specific match ups. It just requires a different way of thinking.

Edit: high hat trap also need to be tweaked as it stands it's completely useless except for a gimmicky way to get meter fast.

 

[The PantyChrist]

I'm neither a believer nor a disbeliever yet. I've wanted this variation to be good since it was announced. But in most cases simpler is better. If this were injustice, I would equate hat trick as he is to joker, and tempest would be more of a, I don't know, doomsday or Wonder Woman. Any character with a simple yet extremely effective gameplan really. Joker was also consistently buffed throughout the life of the game and still was bottom 2 and I see this variation going more of that route rather than turning into another bane/ flash/ sinestro.

Maybe not bottom 2 but just not ever being that great

 

[Eddy Wang]

Yeah with the hat out but why would you have your hat out all the time? You lose armour and your best anti-air/combo move(s). I really don't think giving him a boost so he matches his other variations or at least the average would make him broken. I mean a 3% max increase in damage would just make it better, not broken.

The hat doesn't stay out all the time unless on specific setups where lao has position advantage, also his spin may startup faster but the execution input takes longer to AA standing 1 do wonders against crossups and jump ins.

F0xy's been saying this too and I don't get it. Buzzsaw has better mixups, does more damage, and arguably better setups. Hat Trick might have SLIGHTLY safer pressure (ie 2 frames safer or something) but it suffers without the hat because he loses his overhead mixup/starter whereas Buzz Saw at least eventually gets it back even if there's another one on screen.

Why do you think it's better?

Hat Trick can mentally freeze opponents with every hat trap you place in certain situations, if they choose to not respect that option and risk a lot when your hat is out a punish will give you a lot of damage, position advantage and more mental pressure.

Hat Trick can apply mental pressure after every combo, you lose your overhead starter, with a Low Hat Trap, you will always condition your opponent to block low, which opens for F4 knockdown, depending of the position, the low hat trap becomes a low/oh mixup.

Hat Trick setups aren't linear, there is an infinity of things you can do with the hat, every day i play a different version of this variation and keep learning from it.

Hat trick places doubts on the opponent's reads, once they start doubting themselves bad things will happen.

 

[Big Pampering]

Not trying to preach how hat trick is supposed to be played, but I did break him down prepatch and I have broken the variation down postpatch to some extent and don't think he is about 50/50 mixups or setups at all except maybe in the corner there is potential for good setups. The low hat trap I think is whatever. Its really all about the mid hat trap imo that grants you respect off of blockstrings based on respect. I dont think hattrick is even that much different from the typical kung lao pressure. He got this pressure prepatch post b321 hat trap knockdown. Now he can get it off a blockstring and has even more advantage after a b321 knockdown because of the faster hat trap recovery.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

This character seems to attract my type of players, absolutely no downplaying here from Hat a Trick mains.

Simpler does not = better and while Hat Trap might just be "25% on paper" that does not give any justice at all to the utility that the tool is.

Hat trick IMO is a great variation I feel it need only 1 adjustment which is.

Only have the hat return to his head if he is knocked down not simply hit.

The reason for this suggestion.
There has been several times where I'd call the hat back on my opponents wake up it's just about to hit them and it pops back on my head because I got poked. That is very frustrating.

As for the general gameplan of hat trick, someone said this before me and I completely agree. A lot of people think the variation is trash because there not used to playing Kung Lao this way.

Kung Lao players are accustomed to being aggressive and keeping their foot on the gas to force there opponent to screwing up.

Hat trick however is more footsie based and about controlling space. A defensive Kung Lao player is more suited to hat trick. It's a variation for someone who likes to apply pressure then randomly ease off to trick your opponent into believing he can do stuff then you catch him with the set up (the hat call back into a combo)

I've been practicing this variation exclusively since launch and although it does have its problems it's far from trash it still a good option in specific match ups. It just requires a different way of thinking.

Edit: high hat trap also need to be tweaked as it stands it's completely useless except for a gimmicky way to get meter fast.

This guy nailed it perfectly IMO. He doesn't play like Buzzsaw or even Tempest. I put my footsie king Sub to the side for Hat Trick swag now, as this is Hat Tricks playstyle. It's a more footsies based character and takes full advantage of KLs forward advancings and use of the space control tool that is Hat Trap. And he has the best corner game of all 3 variations, I don't care what anyone says, it's not about theorycrafting this shit based off damage numbers or Buzzsaws regular mixes. Don't get me wrong we ain't "stronger" than Tempest but it's a good example of variations doing exactly what they should - support an option for a character to provide for a different playstyle with the same moveset.




If Hat Trap was free pressure like Hat Spin was without set-up.... I have to agree it would be broken. Even if it wasn't the "main" variation

 

[Youphemism]

The hat doesn't stay out all the time unless on specific setups where lao has position advantage, also his spin may startup faster but the execution input takes longer to AA standing 1 do wonders against crossups and jump ins.



Hat Trick can mentally freeze opponents with every hat trap you place in certain situations, if they choose to not respect that option and risk a lot when your hat is out a punish will give you a lot of damage, position advantage and more mental pressure.

Hat Trick can apply mental pressure after every combo, you lose your overhead starter, with a Low Hat Trap, you will always condition your opponent to block low, which opens for F4 knockdown, depending of the position, the low hat trap becomes a low/oh mixup.

Hat Trick setups aren't linear, there is an infinity of things you can do with the hat, every day i play a different version of this variation and keep learning from it.

Hat trick places doubts on the opponent's reads, once they start doubting themselves bad things will happen.

Just low 20s meterless and low 30s for a bar isn't "a lot" of damage lol, and from full distance it gets hard to convert from unless you spend a bar.

Eh as much as mindgames are a thing I still think he needs something more worrisome.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Just low 20s meterless and low 30s for a bar isn't "a lot" of damage lol, and from full distance it gets hard to convert from unless you spend a bar.

Eh as much as mindgames are a thing I still think he needs something more worrisome.

That's actually amazing damage, for something that is essentially just the safest projectile in the game once set-up. And the further the Hat is away the easier it is to convert man

 

[Youphemism]

That's actually amazing damage, for something that is essentially just the safest projectile in the game once set-up. And the further the Hat is away the easier it is to convert man

For a combo starter? I don't think there's anything that gives less than that...

 

[Eddy Wang]

Just low 20s meterless and low 30s for a bar isn't "a lot" of damage lol, and from full distance it gets hard to convert from unless you spend a bar.

Eh as much as mindgames are a thing I still think he needs something more worrisome.

11212~spin/F23~spin, Jk~dk, B321 Hat Trap 25% when you punish from a jump in is 27% without counting the fact that a throw gives you 12% more.

With the hat out
112124~ Hat Call back, B321 spin~ JK~dk 21 30s

Kung Lao can do 38% meterless in all variations from a jump in, that is cray, he can do 40 meterless from a tele 3 punish in all variations, those are the reasons i think he doesn't need anymore damage buff, if you buff his damage more aside of his options being extremely viable, he will be stupid broken and the right term will not be "walking tank".

Anything that is beyond -16 on block and ends at blast radius, lao punishes with 44 which gives him a lot of meterless damage

What i think needs changing on the Hat Trick are a few things
1. Above Hat Trap should have place the hat above and in front of Lao with an additional command
2. Hat trap doesn't go away when Lao is hit unless when one of the following conditions is met: Lao takes more than one hit, juggled or knockdown.
3. Ability to Hat Call Back from a teleport
4. Ability to attack air bone after an air hat call back
5. Hat-a-Rang should have been a blockstring, that gap needs to go
6. 112124~ Hat Trap should have been +2 on block

The only way of giving him a damage buff without necessarily buff his other variations would be making 112124~Hat trap~F23~Hat Call Back a 3 frame link combo, although this would become usefull when the opponnent wakeups on the opposite direction to escape the hat because it would give Lao time to spin, i think this buff is the one that is not really needed.

 

[Youphemism]

11212~spin/F23~spin, Jk~dk, B321 Hat Trap 25% when you punish from a jump in is 27% without counting the fact that a throw gives you 12% more.

With the hat out
112124~ Hat Call back, B321 spin~ JK~dk 21 30s

Kung Lao can do 38% meterless in all variations from a jump in, that is cray, he can do 40 meterless from a tele 3 punish in all variations, those are the reasons i think he doesn't need anymore damage buff, if you buff his damage more aside of his options being extremely viable, he will be stupid broken and the right term will not be "walking tank".

Anything that is beyond -16 on block and ends at blast radius, lao punishes with 44 which gives him a lot of meterless damage

What i think needs changing on the Hat Trick are a few things
1. Above Hat Trap should have place the hat above and in front of Lao with an additional command
2. Hat trap doesn't go away when Lao is hit unless when one of the following conditions is met: Lao takes more than one hit, juggled or knockdown.
3. Ability to Hat Call Back from a teleport
4. Ability to attack air bone after an air hat call back
5. Hat-a-Rang should have been a blockstring, that gap needs to go
6. 112124~ Hat Trap should have been +2 on block

The only way of giving him a damage buff without necessarily buff his other variations would be making 112124~Hat trap~F23~Hat Call Back a 3 frame link combo, although this would become usefull when the opponnent wakeups on the opposite direction to escape the hat because it would give Lao time to spin, i think this buff is the one that is not really needed.

That's not what I'm talking about, anyone can do 11212~spin or 112124~call back, I'm talking about off of a raw call back.

I'm not talking about a damage buff to all his variations either, this is the Hat Trick discussion lol. I mean less scaling on call back and on Hatarang (as well as making the second hit mid and/or not full combo punishable). Hat Trick will not be broken if his damage was brought up slightly, it'd just be used more because it would be a better variation. I still think they should reduce the recovery/startup on the Hat Traps by 5 frames and he would be great.

 

[Eddy Wang]

That's not what I'm talking about, anyone can do 11212~spin or 112124~call back, I'm talking about off of a raw call back.

I'm not talking about a damage buff to all his variations either, this is the Hat Trick discussion lol. I mean less scaling on call back and on Hatarang (as well as making the second hit mid and/or not full combo punishable). Hat Trick will not be broken if his damage was brought up slightly, it'd just be used more because it would be a better variation. I still think they should reduce the recovery/startup on the Hat Traps by 5 frames and he would be great.

I would rather have 112124~hat trap~F2 and (with away hat out) 112124~hat call back~f2 to be a combo link rather than having less Scaling on Hat call back and Hat-arang, not only he would do more acceptable damage, but he would have better options to combo and more reasons to setup away hat trap behind him.

 

[BLOOD CAPTAIN X]

Here's some hat trick combos I've cooked up.

B321 > away hat trap > teleport 3 > 44 > hat callback > F2,1 > spin > jump kick > dive kick > 2,1 = 36%

B321 > forward hat trap > jump back > ex air hat call back > B321> spin > JK> DK > JK > DK = 32% (1 Bar Meter )

jump 2 > hat trap > hat callback > spin > hat trap > hat call > grab (tight timing) =23% (Stylish)

B321 > hat a rang > run > b321 > EX spin > JK > DK > 21 = 37% (2 bars Meter)

B321 > away low hat trap > cross up jump punch > air hat call back > B321 > spin > F1 > hat trap. (hard to block High Low Mix up) 26% + set up (Meterless)

B321 > away low hat trap > cross up jump punch > EX air hat call back > B321 > spin > JK > DK > 2,1 (Hard to block high low mix up with extended juggle) = 31% (1 bar Meter)

 

[Mykal NS]

@I GOT HANDS We did it fam, everyone picking up HT now, we made it my dude!

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I'm loving it dude, I know we never gunna be more popular than Tempest but at least we got a decent little community going to discuss. I've refined and learned a bunch from everyone on here


I got an update coming for the guide too in a couple days

 

[BLOOD CAPTAIN X]

@I GOT HANDS We did it fam, everyone picking up HT now, we made it my dude!

Bro I've been telling people hat trick is the shit since launch, scroll up and try out some of the combos I've put together for this variation

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Bro I've been telling people hat trick is the shit since launch, scroll up and try out some of the combos I've put together for this variation

I'm actually on vacation at the moment so I can't test em.

I know that first one however, you can run in after the 44 and go B3xxHat Call Back and get like an extra 2% on it, and also make the combo more consistent. However it's not something I'd ever use like that, as just throwing out TPs in the neutral is EZ punished on reaction, you gotta do it when you got some frames to work whiff like if your opponent projectiles or whiffs.

You should add add % next to the rest of them man

 

[Mykal NS]

We got PL and Foxy in on it. We made it fam! PL using the +13 setups I posted a while back in the guide. @I GOT HANDS @BLOOD CAPTAIN X, I feel so proud.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I've been playing Hat Trick ever since the patch that buffed him lol.

 

[Mykal NS]

@Eddy Wang, you wasn't with us shooting in the gym! DansGame lol, I been at it since day 1 but the buffs made it better. I love it. Good pressure and safe setups.

 

[BLOOD CAPTAIN X]

Im just glad people are seeing the light, I'll continue to find more hat trick tech and share with you all.

 

[just_2swift]

Hat trick was the first Lao I played as a main. I still play him for trolling ppl for giggles from time to time.

 

[Eddy Wang]

@Eddy Wang, you wasn't with us shooting in the gym! DansGame lol, I been at it since day 1 but the buffs made it better. I love it. Good pressure and safe setups.

No i wasn't, in fact it was the only Variation of Lao i was interested in, but it used to be pretty bad that never one a game in face of pre-patch raidens and more, so i sticked mostly to the day 1 character, which was scorpion.

But i jumped back in the instant he got patched out, i wasn't exactly influencied by you guys, i already had my gameplan ready with him, it wasn't just possible before patching.

 

[Youphemism]

I would rather have 112124~hat trap~F2 and (with away hat out) 112124~hat call back~f2 to be a combo link rather than having less Scaling on Hat call back and Hat-arang, not only he would do more acceptable damage, but he would have better options to combo and more reasons to setup away hat trap behind him.

I'd like that too but what's the point in doing Hatarang if it leads to less than some meterless combos you can do? EX moves are supposed to enhance the effect of the move but it scales really heavily. I'd just like to have acceptable damage from my conversions, 20% meterless from a raw callback is ok but I don't see how tuning down the scaling on that would break the variation. He'd just have similar output to his other two.