Jesus Christ there has been some SERIOUSLY bad advice given here on how to play against Reptile. Namely, "just zone him bro" and "space him out in the neutral!".
Heres what happens if you try to zone Reptile out:
Some of these are strictly on reads and tighter on timing (iAG, Laser Shots, Ex-Knives) but plenty of it is reactable, and that is punishing some of the BEST projectiles in the game. If you aren't playing any of these characters you have absolutely no chance of zoning him out if he has a bar.
Now let's take a look at Reptile's spacing game:
And here's what happens if you try to Jump Back out of a 50/50 after EX-Invis
You can FORWARD jump out of his low option, but the overhead goes straight into combo, so still a 50/50. The guy who recommended this tech gets bonus points for going on a rant shortly afterwards about people needing to research what their options are
The only time you should be trying to do anything like zoning Reptile if he has a bar, is to BAIT out the Slide which is highly punishable. He's possibly the best counter-zoner in the game, with a 6f start up, low profiling, fullscreen armored move that gets him straight in. Trying to play keep away with a projectile or something similar, is going to let him in, give him damage, a knockdown, and possibly the corner. However, if he has no meter, his fullscreen game is pretty meh, you can definitely try to throw some zone at him - just remember his run speed is good and his F21 covers a lot of space quickly.
As for spacing him out in the neutral, the video pretty much covers it with little exception, it's probably not going to work out too well for you against a good Reptile and thats even against characters with some of the best advancing mids in the game. His F2 has amazing reach on it and is just as fast as some of the best advancing mids in the game, and it's supported by the character having one of the best walkback speeds in the game, there is no other way to describe his footsies other than "amazing". The followup hit in F21 also advances quite nicely as well. And even on block, he can still get in with it, he can use EX-Invis after it which leaves him +6, which means his OH beats any move, so pressing any button is a read on the 50/50. It doesn't jail into anything except D3 however, so your other options are backdash (if you aren't in the corner) or armor. Regardless, the advantage is firmly his going to be his at +6, and if he reads the armor and whiffs it by backdashing or jumping, even against safe armor that leaves the ball hugely in his court as he is now invisible giving him a massive footsies advantage, and a frame advantage from your recovery frames.
He also has other tricks he can use after an ex Invis, baiting an armor is beneficial to him as his meterless punishes hit much harder than his meterless 50/50s (and it blows a bar of yours). B1D4 hits low second hit and is super hard to recognise and respond to (he's invisible) and screws with the expected blocking pattern of needing to block OH second hit to guard against F412, both these strings easy convert for nearly 35% meterless as well.
On the subject of F21, even on block (no invis cancel) its only -4, so the advantage is yours but he still definitely has options.
So it's going to be hard to keep him out, and not always beneficial, you simply have to learn to neutral against him. His mix-up is one of the fastest in the game, speedier than even Sonya's, with an 11f OH that is +1 on block, this is his key tool. He has a sweet poke game which is also great for conditioning into a B2, D3 is 7f and only -3 on block and jails into a 50/50. EX-Invis is also commonly used to counterpoke as it has armor and fast recovery making it easy to punish a lot of normals with it, and on a misread is generally safe and gives an Invis set-up. His meterless low option is also safe on block, but is easy to punish on whiff, either by crossing it up, or backdashing. His low combo starter if he tried to convert with meter (Ex-Invis) is going to be much harder to whiff punish and is also safe on block.
You'll notice the common theme with all his bullshit however, is that it nearly all requires meter. Without it, he is a very mediocre character, his OH and low only convert for 23%/16% respectively without spending a bar, which is pretty much atrocious, and any tricks he has to make up for this abysmal meterless damage also relies on meter. As such, this resource requirement means that while he may have some of the most dishonest shit in the game, he cannot just spam it and has to use it wisely. This also means that a good tactic is trying to starve him for meter. His main meter building and pressure comes from F412xxClaw or any stagger within it (of the 4 individual hits they are -5,-5,-6,-6, respectively) which starts with a 9f mid hits 4 times, has an overhead in the middle of it, can be cancelled into a low at anytime, and launches into 33% meterless if it happens to hit, and on block (if he has a bar or it completes him one) can also be finished with EX-Invis to get another mix-up at +8. This blockstring is obviously an amazing tool for him, however, he absolutely needs it, and as such this is where we have to beat Reptile, by denying him this string. You obviously can't react to it coming out at point blank range, but I believe the secret to beating Reptile is playing in such a way that makes this string more risky for him than it is beneficial. Two ways I do this is by backdashing, and cross-ups.
Now obviously you want to do it on read of the string, but here is the results of a Backdash vs the buttons Reptile wants to press ASSUMING NEUTRAL:
-F412 string at point blank which would afterwise be safe, is punishable after a backdash by walk back for an instant into advancing for
most characters
(Goro Kenshi cannot backdash this at point blank, F/T and Jason can double backdash but cannot punish)
-F41, is punishable for by almost all characters after a backdash (would otherwise be safe)
-F4 is going to be safe against almost all characters after a backdash due to the spacing, but leaves you at ~11 frames of advantage
(Reptile can punish himself with a Slide thats about it)
-B3 backdashed leaves you at ~11 frame advantage against if he tried to cancel into Invis for combo, it leaves him punishable by all characters if he went for the meterless option of B34. (would be otherwise safe)
Can He can sometimes still catch a backdash with this if used at point blank range, but it is dependant on your backdash timing
-B2 backdashed leaves you with ~5f advantage
-B1D4 becomes punishable on whiff (otherwise safe)
Cross-up vs Reptile
-F412 will whiff against a cross up if used neutral and leave them open to punish with an advancing, but will AA you and convert into combo if used while plus, or before you jump (otherwise safe)
-F4, F41 are the same story, but get punished by the cross up itself (otherwise safe)
-B3 is full combo punishable by cross up (otherwise safe)
-B2 connects and Launches you for Reptile to combo
-B1D4 is full combo punishable by cross up (otherwise safe)
As you can see, backdashing and crossing Reptile up basically opens him up in a shitload of ways that he was otherwise safe. If he is plus or presses his buttons quicker than you, and is directly in your face, B3 may or may not catch a backdash - depends on your timing, but you do gotta have some conviction here, it's really hard for him to convert off it however. but a cross up will always whiff a B3 unless he has jailed you into it, which is pretty much either of wake up, or a D4 in the corner .
So here's how I block against Reptile in the neutral, block high, read anything other than overhead I either backdash, or cross-up.
It's so stupidly hard to sit in his face and block correctly against him, even more so if he is invisible and staggering strings and shit, and when you do block its all safe, so against this character I feel this is THE way to bring the risk/reward back in your favor. Reptile is a slippery dude and to play against him you get slippery as well. The 50/50 game is still there, don't get it twisted, he still catches you and combos off the Overhead if you try to jump, and he has tools for punishing everything if the right read, just like any other match up. However not blocking for the B34 and just jumping / backdashing instead evens the playing field a little, allowing you to punish his moves HEAVILY on the correct read. It also has the benefit of for the most part, doing a lot of work denying his F412 pressure and main meterbuilding tool as well as making it punishable, and things like his backdash punish (F21) do very little without meter as already mentioned.
Unfortunately B2 is always gonna be safe and there is just no way around it, it's safe if backdashed, +1 on block, and knocks you out of cross up or jump back. And +6 frames isn't really much to do anything against Reptile after backdashing a B2 either, he can smack down any advance pretty safely with F2, so its probably best to lab up your options here. The main thing is that you need to lab is your options after a blocked B2 and develop a meta for it otherwise he can just get away with murder with B2, and D3 + B2 + F21 is all he will need to press all game. It's going to be different for each character, but for Hellfire for example, I can jump back and punish an immediate F21 followup on reaction with my EX-TP for way more than he would have gotten off that F21, or I can stand still and if he walks back to whiff something before trying it its a Flame Aura set-up which can only be contested by ex-Slide (if hes quick with it and expecting it), or poke him him out with D4xxAura or Run in Throw. Most characters will be able to beat an immediate F21 follow up after blocked B2 with S1xxCombo Starting Special very safely even on whiff, or just backdashing into punish, however everyone has their dirt so you should lab this out.
The other important meta is what to do about D3, because it is a great conditioning tool for Reptile. It's 7f +13 on hit and jails into B2 or F4, you can't armor or backdash, you really gotta respect it, if he hits you with a D3 you simply have to block the B2 and go into that guessing game, or let him get his pressure started, unless you make a very hard-read of B3 in which case you can cross up into punish. It's a vicious cycle off the D3. If you happen to backdash a D3 it leaves you at a disadvantage, if you cross up over a D3 you will only punish it if he was super late, but it should let you get your game started unless he is super quick with the uppercut. Neither of these happening is perfect or consistent or stops him from D3'ing, you just have to pay attention to when he D3's and adapt, if he uses it everytime he's plus because it jails him into pressure, then start blocking low or crossing it up and getting your game started, remember his options are far from over after either happens and he can uppercut most cross-ups even after a whiffed D3 from the neutral if he expects it, and he can armor or just poke again after a blocked D3 because it's only -3, you really need to be aware of your fastest mid for counterpoking. It's difficult. but hey everyone's got their dirt and this is Reptiles m
The best defense is a good offense however as they say, get your game started whenever you can, don't let him build meter for his bullshit, if he does have meter for his bullshit try not to let him get it started, and if he does get a knockdown make good reads on when you can armor on wake-up. Other good gaps to look to armor are after a blocked B2, after a blocked F21, after a blocked poke, and after backdashing something that leaves him at advantage like D3, just don't let him show you too much disrespect. On wake-up, especially in the corner, you need to be more careful, you have much less options becaue you can't cross up the B3 anymore, but you can delay wakeup, and you can always reversal Throw to help get the fuck out the corner it doesn't matter which way you throw him if you are worried about the tech being predictable (mix the throw up with your fastest mid if he starts adapting and poking out of the throw), after a blocked B2 you can often D4 as he reapproaches and then run in Throw to also get out, or work out some other options, F21 unfortunately AA's really well and gets him another 50/50 for a Bar so you kinda gotta make some plays here or he's just gonna shit all over you.
All in all, the character has a lot of dirt, and is extremely underrated but he is not broken IMO. You just gotta get in the lab, practice your punishes and check what your options are, hopefully this wall of text helps people know what they should be checking for at least. Just my experience with it, didn't really see much useful information in here otherwise
@I Am The LK
@Kickbykick
