Video/Tutorial - Summoner Beta Quan! Buffs and Normalizations!

[I GOT HANDS]

Quan players be like "Ah its -1 down from +17, i'll rework some combos"
KungLao players be like "HOWTHEFKFLK ITS ONLY +7 down from +20 POS GAME IMQUITTIN"

Yep, that's definitely how the Quan Chi community has reacted to these buffs. Nothing at all like these guys here (obviously Kung Lao mains):

These are all atrocious. I already gave my thoughts on how to balance him, but I'm sure these aren't final. If they are then I'm done with the game.

Quan is done, no longer a viable character for top tier play, summoner anyway. No bat after trance rendered quan so much weaker, less chance for mixups, and skydrop is still noob status. Quans reign is finally over.

Or these Kung Lao players from the other thread:

The scrubs killing quan.
By taking his plus runes you have essentially 'cut the head of the beast'.
fuckyouverymuch

for as much as I hated summoner, this nerf is way too heavy. they could have just made the low bat a mid and nerf the damage.

yo if these nerfs are true, im glad i started playing other chars a month in advance. i knew if TYM scrubs cried hard enough, a char will no doubt die.

RIP sorcerer..
seriously, fuck this.
just stick with the bat nerf.. not my precious runes...

Or like the million other posts exactly like this in the Quan Chi threads, from other Kung Lao mains no doubt

 

[rubmytaco]

Quan players be like "Ah its -1 down from +17, i'll rework some combos"
KungLao players be like "HOWTHEFKFLK ITS ONLY +7 down from +20 POS GAME IMQUITTIN"

To be fair, that ex hat spin is now +7 isn't the only change that drastiscally changes the way tempest works. They went in hard on him.

 

[CAM THE SAGE]

Something had to be done with this character. Seems like sorcerer will be better now though.

It takes his chip option away.I think that var. Is dead now

 

[Aramonde]

Alright so I've played around with Warlock a bit in the beta, and as far as his BNBs go:

- Doesn't look like corner combos are effected, there's still enough time to get a jump back punch post trance.

- Midscreen however some jump in follow ups are mad awkward, depending on the distance/situation the trance was used to convert.

- It looks like part of the nerf to MB was done by increasing the recovery, my ideal BNB after a MB rune launch up close was dash up, NJP, 4 trance, I have not been able to land the NJP even ONCE. even following up with a B2 is stupidly finnicky now.

Hopefully I can run into some of you guys to test out if new timing is required or if they're simply not possible anymore.

Thanks for doing this my fellow warlock brother!

ps. So where was the hardcoded bat call nerf huh?

 

[STRYKIE]

Thanks for doing this my fellow warlock brother!

ps. So where was the hardcoded bat call nerf huh?

I dunno, has it been tested yet? Maybe they saw the shitstorm and changed their minds lol.

I'll probably talk about it more in another thread I have planned.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

I dunno, has it been tested yet? Maybe they saw the shitstorm and changed their minds lol.

I'll probably talk about it more in another thread I have planned.

You may not have tried it, but just wondering if you've tested the new ex sky drop much?

I've heard it's better but was curious how much better.

Given how bad the move was before it could easily be way better than before but still awful/unusable hah

 

[STRYKIE]

You may not have tried it, but just wondering if you've tested the new ex sky drop much?

I've heard it's better but was curious how much better.

Given how bad the move was before it could easily be way better than before but still awful/unusable hah

Well as a Warlock specialist I have no reason to use EX sky drop lol, but when REO and Sonic were testing changes on stream Quan's 12 string was still stuffing it before it even left the ground... so yeah, doesn't look that much better, if any...

 

[Sultani]

Hmm.. These changes may have been a bit extreme, but it's too early to say for sure before we know what changed with everyone else. Tanya will likely get the Quan Lao treatment as well.

 

[gibster13]

does ex trance still give temp damage buff ??

 

[BillStickers]

Don't know how I feel about these. I think making rune -1 is ehhh. Would've been happy with it just being less + (maybe +6 so he gets a d1 but nothing else?) but benign minus?

Trance change seems good for dealing with summoner damage and unblockables (limiting his access without taking anything away). I think extended cool down would've been better as this trance change seems to hurt sorcerer heaps as well (not that I think sorcerer wasn't exceptional before, just that a rune nerf would be enough without removing spells mid trance).

-1 is still perfectly fine. With a 6 frame d1 he still can beat other characters with an 8 frame d1 or slower, and having a frame trap that only gives a guaranteed d1 anyway is silly (0.2% chip and then your turn is immediately over). I know everyone's used to hyper-aggression in the current meta but I'm happy that reverting to neutral is going to become more common than the constant flip-flopping of pressure.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

Any chance the hit advantage on d1 got buffed slightly?

Would be nice if he could at least get a guaranteed d3 or b3 on hit.

At +3 all he gets are repeated d1s, which can get armored for huge damage by some characters (maybe some can even jump out of it?)

 

[Pan1cMode]

-1 is still perfectly fine. With a 6 frame d1 he still can beat other characters with an 8 frame d1 or slower, and having a frame trap that only gives a guaranteed d1 anyway is silly (0.2% chip and then your turn is immediately over). I know everyone's used to hyper-aggression in the current meta but I'm happy that reverting to neutral is going to become more common than the constant flip-flopping of pressure.

The point is if he's guaranteed a d1, you'll have to respect that and that opens up slower options. Or you can take the risk and try to armour, but then the d1 will catch you out.

Anyways, doesn't matter because that's not the way they've gone.

 

[God Confirm]

So Quan now has workable armor in all 3 variations? interesting.

 

[fr stack]

why are people saying sorcerer has been improved ?? 62 up from 45 or whatever is not a good thing , is it not ?

 

[BillStickers]

The point is if he's guaranteed a d1, you'll have to respect that and that opens up slower options. Or you can take the risk and try to armour, but then the d1 will catch you out.

Anyways, doesn't matter because that's not the way they've gone.

How about, you know, walking backward and punishing whiffed counterattacks with any *one* of Quan's full screen normals? What you're basically saying is that you need a 7 frame handicap to make sure that your opponent is blocking just so that you can use a slower normal. Call me old fashioned, but back in my day, we relied on spacing and footsies to throw out our slower moves instead of being coddled by plus frames being given out like candy.

 

[Israfel]

Anybody that gives up on Quan after these changes clearly didn't play him for the right reasons or the love of the character. We as the Quanmunity had to know that he was going to be adjusted in some fashion, he was way to safe through the entirety of the KP1 shifts. All this means is time to rethink a few strategies, this doesn't kill the character by any means.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

Something had to be done with this character. Seems like sorcerer will be better now though.

Sorcerer is definitely worse with these changes.

But still good I reckon.

 

[The_Tile]

Quan players be like "Ah its -1 down from +17, i'll rework some combos"
KungLao players be like "HOWTHEFKFLK ITS ONLY +7 down from +20 POS GAME IMQUITTIN"

And I saw people in the Lao forums ripping into Quan players about this when they've been 10x worse, even before the changes were official and we're just rumours.

 

[the.hamburglar]

he ha

Quan seems to be better in some ways.. without the ridiculousness.

has zoning pressure for real now... ex rune still plus if delayed which also offers more zoning tactics.

stil has HTB
Still has Bat setups.
Still has tick throws
has a wakeup
Still has great reach with oh
Still has Low Starter.

might need to lab him up, but it seems all still apply if you figure out the new setups.

s a tick throw? lol since when

 

[The_Tile]

How about, you know, walking backward and punishing whiffed counterattacks with any *one* of Quan's full screen normals? What you're basically saying is that you need a 7 frame handicap to make sure that your opponent is blocking just so that you can use a slower normal. Call me old fashioned, but back in my day, we relied on spacing and footsies to throw out our slower moves instead of being coddled by plus frames being given out like candy.

Just to let you know, Quan's walk back speed is bad and unless it's been changed there no pushback on MbRune, so unfortunately this wouldn't be possible.

 

[LiquidDrone]

Sorcerer is definitely worse with these changes.

But still good I reckon.

No Ketchup i'm sorry,

Sorcerer is fucking destroyed by this!! It's too much. He's my main since day 1...and i swear the nerfs are fair for summoner and warlock....not sorcerer

 

[Goat-City]

I changed my mind about sky drop, I actually hate this change now. I completely disagree with this design choice. In my opinion sky drop should only be used as an anti-air/air to air or as a counter to projectiles. They could've buffed its tracking and air priority and maybe given it a very slight speed boost and it would be perfectly useful, but instead they're trying to drastically change his design as a glass canon THIS late in the game in the last patch there's going to be.

It's not Quan's tier that bothers me, whatever that is now. I wouldn't play MK9 Quan if that were the case. It's the fact that I just hate his design now. It's so sloppy and nonsensical, and he's much less fun to me now than he was before. I told them exactly how to balance this character and make all of his strings and specials useful on top of that. And they might as well take the skull and skeleton brutality out of the game now because you will never get them. Like I said, these make no sense.

 

[Gustavness]

You could always use the puggles face munch as a tick throw from certain moves, it is technically a command grab. It was also possible to hit it high enough in the air to make it plus enough to 50/50 them before they hit the ground

I didnt get a lot of time with him yesterday but my initial suspicions on what they would do are basically confirmed. Theyve turned him from a character that chips you out to one that drains you. If its true that he now drains meter on opponent block as well there will be some nasty nasty things you can do.

i did verify you can still combo normal trance into meter drain spell but not the other two. Sorcerer will be fine just a different playstyle. I will lab him up sometime this week once i finish up sonya

 

[the.hamburglar]

You could always use the puggles face munch as a tick throw from certain moves, it is technically a command grab. It was also possible to hit it high enough in the air to make it plus enough to 50/50 them before they hit the ground

I didnt get a lot of time with him yesterday but my initial suspicions on what they would do are basically confirmed. Theyve turned him from a character that chips you out to one that drains you. If its true that he now drains meter on opponent block as well there will be some nasty nasty things you can do.

i did verify you can still combo normal trance into meter drain spell but not the other two. Sorcerer will be fine just a different playstyle. I will lab him up sometime this week once i finish up sonya

idk about calling it a tick throw if i unblock wouldnt it completely miss and quan is there pointing his hand out? I mean i guess its a tick throw but barely

 

[Crusty]

Dark Curse (Armour) Spell - Starts up in 62 frames (down from 45)

I might be blind af but did I read that correctly?

Shouldn't be up from 45 frames (unless you meant to type 26)