Match-up Discussion Flash Matchup Discussion

[DGOD PSYCHO]

The MB divekick is still a problem, because it's fucking retarded. That's why I said it's still 5-5 at best.

I treat the MB dive kick like Batmans batarangs, Push block.

 

[AYSAMO]

I treat the MB dive kick like Batmans batarangs, Push block.

Hmm that's a good idea, but if you can punish his d1+electric hand I'm not scared of his followup pressure anymore.

 

[Qwark28]

I'm playing good black adams that really only ever instant MB divekick anyway, but if they try a divekick into backdash I can punish it no problem every time. I'm not risking anything, I'm gonna hit you out of the backdash if you try to do that shit. And I don't have to spend the meter to get some shitty 32% combo, I can just regular LC you for a hard knockdown, now you either block flash's pressure or try to wakeup with cage.

The MB divekick is still a problem, because it's fucking retarded. That's why I said it's still 5-5 at best.

Finally, a well written arguement. Lightning hands are also a wakeup, only -5 on block. Flash doesn't have a high enough jump to avoid both the hands and the cages hitbox.

How are you not risking anything? What if the BA player just blocks low after the divekick and fuzzy guards the F2?

 

[Qwark28]

Hmm that's a good idea, but if you can punish his d1+electric hand I'm not scared of his followup pressure anymore.

D1 lightning hands will rarely happen and you will not D2 it on reaction.

BA has trait 99% of the time before flash reaches him, D1 trait punishes any movement for 45%.

 

[Qwark28]

Hmm that's a good idea, but if you can punish his d1+electric hand I'm not scared of his followup pressure anymore.

Pushblock MB divekick and you're left without meter. Black Adam pisses meter, Flash doesn't. He needs it for his BnB's and good damage, needs it for pressure and crossup setups. There are VERY few characters where BA doesn't wanna trade bars, maybe even just one.

 

[DGOD PSYCHO]

Hmm that's a good idea, but if you can punish his d1+electric hand I'm not scared of his followup pressure anymore.

punishing all of his backdashes, pushblock, small maps (ferris, stryker island), punishing his d1 + electric hand, and ambiguous cross ups????????
Black adam can go home.

 

[Qwark28]

punishing all of his backdashes, pushblock, small maps (ferris, stryker island), punishing his d1 + electric hand, and ambiguous cross ups????????
Black adam can go home.

punishing backdashes - universal
pushblocking - universal
small maps - universal ( btw, those stages are a paradise for zoners )
punishing d1 lightning hands - matchup specific
ambiguous crossups - can flash only do ambiguous crossup on BA? no.

1/5 is matchup specific. what is your arguement

 

[DGOD PSYCHO]

punishing backdashes - universal
pushblocking - universal
small maps - universal ( btw, those stages are a paradise for zoners )
punishing d1 lightning hands - matchup specific
ambiguous crossups - can flash only do ambiguous crossup on BA? no.

1/5 is matchup specific. what is your arguement

Uppercut d1 lightning...
Small maps. Paradise for flash not Ba.
flash can Destroy Ba for Back dashing
61% punishes.
Ambigous cross ups to confuse what side you are on.
GG i aint theory fighting with you bye bruh.

 

[Qwark28]

Uppercut d1 lightning...
Small maps. Paradise for flash not Ba.
flash can Destroy Ba for Back dashing
61% punishes.
Ambigous cross ups to confuse what side you are on.
GG i aint theory fighting with you bye bruh.

if youre not going to discuss in a matchup discussion thread and not even be polite then dont bother posting here.

 

[DGOD PSYCHO]

if youre not going to discuss in a matchup discussion thread and not even be polite then dont bother posting here.

I have no respect for you when you are not polite yourself.
You always assume things about me when you reply, that's manners? but good day.

 

[187x]

if youre not going to discuss in a matchup discussion thread and not even be polite then dont bother posting here.

trying to sound like a smartass jerk isn't polite sirr

 

[DGOD PSYCHO]

trying to sound like a smartass jerk isn't polite sirr

This. he does this to all of my posts. And I cannot stand him.

 

[AYSAMO]

Finally, a well written arguement. Lightning hands are also a wakeup, only -5 on block. Flash doesn't have a high enough jump to avoid both the hands and the cages hitbox.

How are you not risking anything? What if the BA player just blocks low after the divekick and fuzzy guards the F2?

If lightning hands is -5 on block then this move is not punishable by anything except batman's trait. Flash isn't punishing that shit.

And what I mean by I'm not risking anything, is I can react to a backdash. Actually, if I LC too early after you backdash it will go thru BA because of the dash's invincibility frames, but it's still easy to blow up. If you stop backdashing after the raw divekick, I just get to run a free blockstring. I'm ok with this, Flash's goal is to stay in on Adam anyway.

Also, the only time I would pushblock a MB divekick is if you're trying to hit me with trait up. Pushblock gets rid of trait. Worth the meter in that situation.

 

[Qwark28]

If lightning hands is -5 on block then this move is not punishable by anything except batman's trait. Flash isn't punishing that shit.

And what I mean by I'm not risking anything, is I can react to a backdash. Actually, if I LC too early after you backdash it will go thru BA because of the dash's invincibility frames, but it's still easy to blow up. If you stop backdashing after the raw divekick, I just get to run a free blockstring. I'm ok with this, Flash's goal is to stay in on Adam anyway.

Also, the only time I would pushblock a MB divekick is if you're trying to hit me with trait up. Pushblock gets rid of trait. Worth the meter in that situation.

I agree on everything except the last sentences. Those are what make this matchup not 8-2 worthy. About trait, the only reason BA would ever do that is if both parties were at 2% HP, otherwise he could simply touch you with trait.

 

[AYSAMO]

I agree on everything except the last sentences. Those are what make this matchup not 8-2 worthy. About trait, the only reason BA would ever do that is if both parties were at 2% HP, otherwise he could simply touch you with trait.

Yea that's true, most of the time I get hit by trait, it's when adam is faking me out and dashing at me because he knows I will pushblock lol. It's some dirty shit. I think it's potentially still a 5-5 matchup, but it feels uphill. I have to play it way more before EVO.

 

[Smarrgasm]

Okay i cant use d1 lightning hands, big deal. Im going to do it first to make sure you can punish it. Then after that you open up my other options. Flash still has to get in on Black Adam while also dealing with my other tools. Flashes only saving grace in this MU is his lightning charge to punish Bolts/Black Magic and the fact that speed dodge keeps interactibles at bay. As qwark has said if you expect d1 hands and i do d1 orbs and you move at all, you will eat a 45% combo. I see this as 6-4 Black Adam only because of Lightning charge and the fact that flash has good mixups leading to damage rivaling Black Adams.

 

[LEGEND]

1. With any experience in the Flash MU his cross-ups become easily blockable, or at least able to tell which side to input wake-ups. So wake-up cage will still body you for half your life

2. yes it is true flash dominates this MU if he gets BA to the corner, but that isn't likely to happen in every match against a competent BA. Catching BA is something almost no characters can do, let alone a character with ZERO air control

3. By all means throw out D2 after a BA D1 and risk half you life on a random read

4. you will never close out this MU if you have less than 10% life

5. good luck getting in with throwing out MB LC, which again, risks half your life

6. you get hit by ONE combo and BA will turtle and fly away from you the entire game. Get lucky enough to land Both hits of MB LC or a B2 and boom, pushblocked. Good luck getting back in

7. interactable control. When BA is near an interactable you must respect every movement he makes (depends on the interactable of course)

8. BA heavily out footsies you (obviously eluded to as much, and should be common knowledge)

9. he can dash out of neutral jump setups

10. not that it matters too much but his AA is still 100% effective vs Flash's jump attacks

11. Flash has not way to punish a higher up blocked divekick aside from Flying uppercut, and if you mis time or judged the hit point wrong you will get blown up for 8 times as much damage as you would half got if you landed it

. . . off the top of my head

seriously if you guys think you'll catch a top BA player and hold him in a corner all match every match, you have another thing coming.

 

[AYSAMO]

Okay i cant use d1 lightning hands, big deal. Im going to do it first to make sure you can punish it. Then after that you open up my other options. Flash still has to get in on Black Adam while also dealing with my other tools. Flashes only saving grace in this MU is his lightning charge to punish Bolts/Black Magic and the fact that speed dodge keeps interactibles at bay. As qwark has said if you expect d1 hands and i do d1 orbs and you move at all, you will eat a 45% combo. I see this as 6-4 Black Adam only because of Lightning charge and the fact that flash has good mixups leading to damage rivaling Black Adams.

Agreed. It's definitely a struggle, and if d1+LH is -5 it's not punishable anyway. It's also a really good wakeup since it pushes my back on block. If we can find a safe jump option that works vs black adam the matchup could be 5-5. Will have to experiment a bit.

 

[Smarrgasm]

Agreed. It's definitely a struggle, and if d1+LH is -5 it's not punishable anyway. It's also a really good wakeup since it pushes my back on block. If we can find a safe jump option that works vs black adam the matchup could be 5-5. Will have to experiment a bit.

Lightning hands is -2 on block. However flash can uppercut in between the d1 and the lightning hands.

 

[AK Harold]

Flash > Black Adam

Next match up to discuss? Scorpion tech or Killer frost next?

 

[Hellion_96]

How can any sane person think that Flash beats Black Adam.

 

[SaJa]

Lightning hands is -2 on block. However flash can uppercut in between the d1 and the lightning hands.

LBSH Flying upercut is punishable as hell, I'm not going to do so everytimes you d1 me. ^^

Flash vs BA is 3-7.

 

[Smarrgasm]

LBSH Flying upercut is punishable as hell, I'm not going to do so everytimes you d1 me. ^^

Flash vs BA is 3-7.

Its his regular d2 which is plus 1 on block. But i agree Black Adam wins at this moment in time. 3-7 im not sure of yet.

 

[AK Harold]

my crap ass flash was 2-8 vs smarrgasm so the mu should be 5-5.

 

[Kiko]

Lets talk match ups. Cat woman vs. Flash?

Do you guys think she's more dangerous than we are up close?

Her mixup game is crazy, but it's easy to find holes. How do you guys approach this match up?

I find my best starter is just D1D2. It's fast and low and takes care of her close up game.


One misread could lead to some pretty nasty pressure by her though.


Anyone got a number they want to peg?

My personal opinion makes me think it's 5-5 on whoever makes the mistake.