Your opinion on the new special cancel OS

[Big Pampering]

It really is just a case-by-case basis. Option-selects aren't inherently bad. SFIV is full of them, and a ton of fun gameplay revolves around punishing them. Have you ever counter hit a guy mashing OS Tech?

It's the best feeling in the world.

I realize that example doesn't really tie to offensive-oriented option-selects, but you can reduce the potency of offensive and defensive option-selects as needed. Raiden's b2 OS is insanely good. It's just a good option. All you need to do to balance it is make Electrocute more unsafe, or remove the special cancel from b2 and make b2 not minus awholefuckingsecond.

I think that is a bad idea. That would be a nerf that could affect his other tools. You don't go nerfing stuff in the game to adapt to this option select. If the OS is the problem then we should do something about the OS and not patch other things and change the whole game around the OS and still let it rock.

 

[Krackatoa]

I think that is a bad idea. That would be a nerf that could affect his other tools. You don't go nerfing stuff in the game to adapt to this option select. If the OS is the problem then we should do something about the OS and not patch other things and change the whole game around the OS and still let it rock.

You're correct. The OS isn't the problem. TG Raiden being gdlk is the problem. Look at Raiden as a whole, and adjust him as needed. Removing his only unreactable overhead option as a viable tool is a bad idea.

I love doing the OS. It's a fun OS to do. It's satisfying when I input it. I personally don't want to see the OS go. I don't even play TG Raiden much.

Edit: Or did I just disagree with you? Reading comprehension is not my forte.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I think that is a bad idea. That would be a nerf that could affect his other tools. You don't go nerfing stuff in the game to adapt to this option select. If the OS is the problem then we should do something about the OS and not patch other things and change the whole game around the OS and still let it rock.

Problem is they might not be able to patch out all the option selects without doing some of the stuff that he said. Its not as simple as going in and just "removing" them. I agree that the buffer shouldnt be taken away and that some OS could maybe be ok in the long run, but they have to balance them really well or their wont be as many hype matches because there wont be as many risks.

 

[Big Pampering]

Problem is they might not be able to patch out all the option selects without doing some of the stuff that he said. Its not as simple as going in and just "removing" them. I agree that the buffer shouldnt be taken away and that some OS could maybe be ok in the long run, but they have to balance them really well or their wont be as many hype matches because there wont be as many risks.

That is true. Maybe they can't remove it, but we don't even know this yet. So we shouldn't be suggesting to change half of the moves in the game to adjust to the OS. We should only be talking about doing that IF the OS can't be removed.

 

[Slips]

The plus side about OS is that some of them are tough to do and any sort of learning curve does help separate the men from the boys as players.

The down side is that it makes 50/50 characters even stronger, who are already the strongest in the game. I predict the end game with the balance will be skewed towards 50/50 characters heavily.

Unless of course they get removed. Then it'll keep things a little more interesting.

 

[Barrogh]

If I understand how that works...
Actually, I think it was possible to do the same in previous games if you were fast enough.
This isn't so much an option select though because you still have to see what's going on and cancel in time. It's not much different than what you do normally - except it's easier to input.

Real option selects (and I think there are things like that in this game) involve being able to get different results off exactly the same input depending on whether opponent blocks or not, including doing so in situations where it's literally impossible to hitconfirm (single hit cancels). Those should be patched out no doubt IMO. I don't see how it is good to basically make the game play itself while also taking all the risk out of certain options and maximizing reward.

 

[chemist4hire]

What option select allows you to cancel a special into a string?

I was referring to these two option select that apply after a sting like 1,1, df1:

Option select 1: If you see the first hit of 1,1 is blocked, you enter any direction after df1 to remove df1 from the buffer. What you get out is just 1,1. This string may be safe or unsafe. This is the option select I favor.

Option select 2: If you see the first hit of 1,1 is blocked, you enter f,2. This removes df1 from the buffer but adds f,2 in its place. What you get now is 1,1, f2. This string may be safe or unsafe. The reason I don't like this option select is because the last hit of your new string could be a overhead or low, so if you see them blocking high and your new sting ends in low, you have basically given yourself any extra chance to break there defense. This option select is hard to do, and very dependent on character being used and there strings.

 

[Big Pampering]

the option select isn't hard to do off of strings. They are pretty hard off of single hit normals though. But take a look at raiden, his b22shocker isn't hard to pull off at all and look how much better the character already is.

 

[Treadmill]

I don't know how anyone can defend the OS. It removes a huge part of what fighting games are.

 

[SaltShaker]

Once people begin mastering their character, it will make the amount of safe pressure absurd and literally destroy rewards for good defense in this game. Make no mistake, if it somehow stays good players will master it to go along with strings that are either safe of OH/Low as well.

Honestly speaking, I'm not sure how serious I could take the game in the long run if this stays in without patches to rectify the situation.

 

[roosTakk]

Im a little behind..can someone explain how to do this OS i keep hearing about very succinctly

 

[Desperdicio]

Im a little behind..can someone explain how to do this OS i keep hearing about very succinctly

http://testyourmight.com/threads/explanation-of-option-selects-in-mkx-by-ultradavid.50948/

 

[Badboy Takuma]

high reward - no risk
sayonara mkx

 

[Alucard]

From what I understand does this mean no more f12 2+4 db3 canceling for Takeda?

 

[Bidu]

Paulo has said a couple of times that they will be removing these from the game.

And who on earth is Paulo? Some developer from NRS?

 

[MsMiharo]

If you think this should stay I'm guessing you played Batgirl
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Smarrgasm]

What a lot of you guys may be overlooking, and I'm not saying this makes it okay or is a saving grace, but when you guess right on these 50/50s even though they are safe you get to do the exact same right back to your opponent because of how most strings will be the end of pressure anyway.

In the end if both players are playing a top character then it will come down to who can actually take advantage of better spacing and get their mixup off first. This is pretty condemning for the lower tier characters but that is just how the game is evolving at this point.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

No point in banning them since they're getting removed anyway.

 

[coolwhip]

The plus side about OS is that some of them are tough to do and any sort of learning curve does help separate the men from the boys as players.

The down side is that it makes 50/50 characters even stronger, who are already the strongest in the game. I predict the end game with the balance will be skewed towards 50/50 characters heavily.

Unless of course they get removed. Then it'll keep things a little more interesting.

I know you're not saying this, but I don't think execution alone justifies something that might be considered too powerful. I mean, I can't see tournament players not mastering this eventually (these guys are too good not to), at least a year from now or so (maybe sooner), and that could really make the game way too safe to be enjoyable.

 

[coolwhip]

No point in banning them since they're getting removed anyway.

Wait, is this confirmed? I remember Paulo mentioned removing the 1+2+3 MB option select but that's about it.

 

[qspec]

I just think the problem is that it adds an unnecessary execution and knowledge barrier. It makes there a right and a wrong way to input a combo. Essentially if you are hit the combo as is, you are wrong. You should be adding some kind of "on hit" buffer to it.

Not only do I think it is unnecessary, I think it is down right harmful. For example, I mentioned in the other thread that characters who are balanced via start-up speed as opposed to recovery speed (I think Goro for example), take an invisible nerf. Meanwhile characters with a ton of unsafe options by design take an invisible buff (potentially Mileena). But the issue is that this has nothing to do with their relative strengths. OS like this could buff (or nerf) all of the high tier while effectively nerfing (or buffing) all of the low tier based simply on what their OS can do (Raiden has been brought up as an example).

Lastly, it removes a meaningful part of normal strategy. Why use weaker confirm combos when you can make something safe on block or stronger on hit? Why worry at all about safe vs unsafe if you are able to allow the game to choose these things for you.

Some OS are unavoidable (usually by game design... SFIV), but that is hardly an excuse to allow the ones that are avoidable to contaminate the game.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

Wait, is this confirmed? I remember Paulo mentioned removing the 1+2+3 MB option select but that's about it.

This is what I keep being told and reading everytime OSes in general are mentioned.

 

[qspec]

Anyone on speaking terms with Paulo should point-blank ask him about this.

It seems crazy to learn teach that could be gone in a week, but it also seems crazy to not learn tech that is this powerful if it is here to stay.

 

[FrothyOmen]

They're pretty retarded.

I'll never understand people who just yell "git gud" at people when the game is fundamentally flawed because of this mechanic. A person asking for discussion on a controversial mechanic is insinuated to be stupid, moronic, cancerous... when they're just calling for discussion and saying "hey, this has potential to be fucked up, can we talk about it". Please go away.

It's like a controller player in an FPS telling people to git gud when they're reliant on aim assist to do things they otherwise wouldn't be able to do through positioning, thinking, or execution. Using the mechanic because it exists is obviously the correct response, but ignoring how dreadfully bland it threatens to make the game is... extremely expected of your typical TYM poster. I don't know why I'm even surprised.

The 1+2+3 OS is a mechanic that plainly makes the game easier for the person executing, and harder for the person defending. Remember that this is already an extremely offense-favored game, and this makes offense easier. It does not promote reactivity, punishment, foresight... However it does promote spending about 10 minutes in the lab, figuring out which moves cancel into what on hit/block with the OS, finding the most optimal cancels, then getting free buffs to your pressure game that don't require you to think at all.

This mechanic literally makes it more difficult to defend, which is already really fucking hard in this game. It's harder to turtle up and block in this game than in most other modern FGs out there. At least we still have the buffer a punish while still holding block and your move comes out on the first frame mechanic! At least you can kinda do one sort of fucked up thing while defending, giving that a nice little boost. Yet nobody's complaining about that retarded mechanic that all the same removes the necessity of thought, practice, execution.... just hold block and mash buttons and if your character has a window to punish they'll auto-throw that shit out there without you ever having to commit to letting go of block.

You guys are morons and deserve all of these retarded no risk/high reward 50/50s that everyone on the outside completely hates about this game. It's like you actually want this game to be Marvel but without the skill ceiling and execution barrier, and instead with NRS characters smattered on top.

 

[Slips]

I know you're not saying this, but I don't think execution alone justifies something that might be considered too powerful. I mean, I can't see tournament players not mastering this eventually (these guys are too good not to), at least a year from now or so (maybe sooner), and that could really make the game way too safe to be enjoyable.

Oh I agree top players will learn it for sure. It might make pools easier but it won't make top 8's or top 16's easier. The OS will probably hurt the lifespan of the game since the pressure/throw characters will fall to the way-side. Poor Johnny, Kitana, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, Shinnock ect. lol