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General/Other - Swarm Queen Why the second D'Vorah nerf is unnecessary

Is the second nerf necessary?

  • Total voters
    149
HoneyBee

HoneyBee

Flash God Lord
D'Vorah got the following two nerfs in today's unexpected patch:

  • D'Vorah - reduced the cancel advantage after Pterothorax combo (Towards + FP, FP, BP) by 2
  • D’Vorah (Swarm Queen) - must be in the Bug Bomb (Wasp Grenade) held loop for 3 frames before you can dash cancel out of it
While I can understand the first nerf, I can not fathom why NRS chose to implement to second nerf. The first nerf toned down her main pressure string which previously enabled her to have a 50/50 after the opponent blocked the move. The opponent's best option was to take the last hit and get out of the pressure at a cost of ~4% damage. She no longer has the option to 50/50 the opponent because she was previously +16, giving her a 1 frame window to use her F2 (15 frame overhead) without a gap, but she is now +11.

The second nerf causes all of her bug cancel combos on hit to be much harder to execute. Her overhead starter previously had a 6 frame window and it now has a 3 frame window to combo into 212. Her low starter and her 112 starter (which is her best punishing move) previously had 4 frame windows which have now changed to 1 frame windows to combo into 212.

I think the second nerf has no real purpose besides forcing tighter execution on an already execution heavy character. I've gone into training mode for countless hours perfecting her cancels and now I'm forced to do it all over again. Her damage output is in line with the rest of the cast so I don't see why it's necessary for her execution to be exponentially harder.

While it is certainly possible to perform the 1 frame combos, the execution barrier to play D'Vorah has increased drastically and is certainly off putting for both D'Vorah mains and prospective D'Vorah players.

D'Vorah previously got a damage reduction nerf in the "Kenshi patch" which was understandable and acceptable because it didn't affect her core gameplay. I just think NRS went a bit too far with this patch.

@colt

EDIT: Adding this post to the OP because I don't think many of you understand what my issue is here.

For those saying that the second nerf is justified because D'Vorah is "too good" and therefore, let's make her bnbs significantly harder to do, it doesn't answer the question. The top D'Vorah players will still go into the lab and force themselves to adjust to a 1 frame link but my question is WHY? What does it accomplish? She still has the same tools and once the players put another 24+ hours of labbing to learn the execution, will NRS say, "Ok time to take it out completely."?

It doesn't make sense that a nerf makes her execution turn from 4 frame links to 1 frame links. Everyone that is saying that is a necessary nerf, tell me why. The "We can still do it so it's fine" reason is complete garbage.

If NRS wanted to get rid of them, they'll probably do another patch to get rid of them completely, meaning ALL that lab time to execute a 1 frame link is a complete waste. If NRS wanted to keep them in the game, why is it necessary to make them 1 frame links instead of 4 frame links?

If the purpose of the nerf was solely to reduce her pressure, that could have been done differently.
 
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tatterbug4

tatterbug4

Bug of tater's
Are they really that much harder. I play her a lot now and I'll be very depressed if I can't do combos consistently
 
haketh

haketh

Noob
Honestly they should just get rid of the second change & reduce the block advantage by an addition 3, this way you still get the effect of both nerfs without the awkwardness of the wait which throws off everyones muscle memory. You're still around +11 frames so you can still mixup & what have you it's just not free anymore.
 
dittO

dittO

Noob
It's clear that NRS didn't intend for D'vorah to be a strong character at all (regardless if she turned out to be). They must also believe that D'vorah mains won't cry enough about her and they (we) 'll just move to another character. They (NRS) believe that she won't be missed...

Aside from a fool's assumptions (above), I believe that they have taken it too far with D'vorah. This nerf wasn't needed.
As Honeybee mentioned, she was an already execution heavy character, in a relatively easy game. Making her even harder to use is silly.

I haven't tried her in practice yet, but the fact that they nerfed the core gameplay of SQ, really makes me wonder how much of an impact will have on her.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
dittO said:
It's clear that NRS didn't intend for D'vorah to be a strong character at all (regardless if she turned out to be). They must also believe that D'vorah mains won't cry enough about her and they (we) 'll just move to another character. They (NRS) believe that she won't be missed...

Aside from a fool's assumptions (above), I believe that they have taken it too far with D'vorah. This nerf wasn't needed.
As Honeybee mentioned, she was an already execution heavy character, in a relatively easy game. Making her even harder to use is silly.

I haven't tried her in practice yet, but the fact that they nerfed the core gameplay of SQ, really makes me wonder how much of an impact will have on her.
Click to expand...
You mad? She was (is) arguably the best character in the game. As I said, you are fortunate it wasn't worse.
 
1man3letters

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
HoneyBee said:
My issue is the 1 frame link execution requirement for her bnbs, not her pressure.
Click to expand...
scorpion had combos taken away because of his changes (across all variations)
dvorahs are still possible,
it will turn some off sure but wasnt kabals 2ndc a just frame? didnt stop kabals from doing it
 
Take$$$

Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
HoneyBee said:
D'Vorah got the following two nerfs in today's unexpected patch:

  • D'Vorah - reduced the cancel advantage after Pterothorax combo (Towards + FP, FP, BP) by 2
  • D’Vorah (Swarm Queen) - must be in the Bug Bomb (Wasp Grenade) held loop for 3 frames before you can dash cancel out of it
While I can understand the first nerf, I can not fathom why NRS chose to implement to second nerf. The first nerf toned down her main pressure string which previously enabled her to have a 50/50 after the opponent blocked the move. The opponent's best option was to take the last hit and get out of the pressure at a cost of ~4% damage. She no longer has the option to 50/50 the opponent because she was previously +16, giving her a 1 frame window to use her F2 (15 frame overhead) without a gap, but she is now +11.

The second nerf causes all of her bug cancel combos on hit to be much harder to execute. Her overhead starter previously had a 6 frame window and it now has a 3 frame window to combo into 212. Her low starter and her 112 starter (which is her best punishing move) previously had 4 frame windows which have now changed to 1 frame windows to combo into 212.

I think the second nerf has no real purpose besides forcing tighter execution on an already execution heavy character. I've gone into training mode for countless hours perfecting her cancels and now I'm forced to do it all over again. Her damage output is in line with the rest of the cast so I don't see why it's necessary for her execution to be exponentially harder.

While it is certainly possible to perform the 1 frame combos, the execution barrier to play D'Vorah has increased drastically and is certainly off putting for both D'Vorah mains and prospective D'Vorah players.

D'Vorah previously got a damage reduction nerf in the "Kenshi patch" which was understandable and acceptable because it didn't affect her core gameplay. I just think NRS went a bit too far with this patch.

@colt
Click to expand...
Yeah even though I think we will be fine as far as execution goes(already making good progress, too bad I wont have it down by CEO but should by EVO... even though it wont matter for me ;_; ), I don't understand the 2nd nerf either. I'm enjoying being able to execute these new ones since they're really hard though.

But they were already hard enough to do for what you got from them(especially in comparison to everyone else with a 50/50), especially b1 and 112 as far as strict timing goes, so why make them even harder? I just don't understand. It's a change we will be able to live with after some more practice, but just... why? I really want to know. Is it because they wanted to get rid of f22 wc f11 xx ex wasp? Couldn't they have done that some other way? Were they trying to get rid of b1 wc without also removing f22? It's bugging me!
 
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