Why 50/50 should never be used in tournaments

[Killzone]

Seriously people ...

... if you don't agree to random stage at the beginning and loser picks afterward, or 50/50 every time, or all the other variants, then simply play without stage interactions. Much less drama.

 

[Euphoric]

It just becomes something else, P2 on watchtower has a huge advantage if they are playing runaway, for example. The only way to deal with everything is do away with 50/50.

Why don't NRS make them blockable, my rough solution was to have a universal damage for all interactibles.

10% and blockable.

 

[Knoterror]

Doesn't the random stage change after a certain amount of time on the select screen? If thats the case, what's to stop a player from just waiting to pick until the bad stage changes?

 

[haketh]

Why don't NRS make them blockable, my rough solution was to have a universal damage for all interactibles.

10% and blockable.

Interactables would be terrible then.

 

[RiBBz22]

It just becomes something else, P2 on watchtower has a huge advantage if they are playing runaway, for example. The only way to deal with everything is do away with 50/50.

I know what you mean. I think that Metopolis is another level of broken though. The p2 advantage on the Watchtower can be reversed and I feel like drone explosions are much easier to escape than the Metropolis ones which are ridiculous.

 

[Vagrant]

I wish we could just ban interactables and be done with it.

They dumb the game down.

 

[Dizzy]

I know what you mean. I think that Metopolis is another level of broken though. The p2 advantage on the Watchtower can be reversed and I feel like drone explosions are much easier to escape than the Metropolis ones which are ridiculous.

Well, Ferris for zoning gadget chars is a good example of something that is similarly powerful. Either way, the interactables are totally messed up in general and I think random stage will generate the best play and using 50/50 caters to poor play, IMO.

 

[RiBBz22]

Well, Ferris for zoning gadget chars is a good example of something that is similarly powerful. Either way, the interactables are totally messed up in general and I think random stage will generate the best play and using 50/50 caters to poor play, IMO.

I see the dots you are trying to connect, but no one could possibly convince me there is anything in the true league of metropolis when power vs gadget chars are concerned. It is a shame, but this can be fixed easily by nerfing the blast range of the drones.

 

[Eh SnOwY]

Ban injustice

 

[chores]

Am I the only one who is repeatedly left flustered with how the 50/50 can select the same stage like 129129525 times in a row? I guess it's mathematically possible but it happens a lot.

(.5)^n where n=number of times the same players get their level choice in a row. so the probability of one player getting their level choice 3 times in a row in a best of 3 is .125 or 1 in 8 odds on average. That would likely happen several times in a large tournament. If you had a 128 person SINGLE elimination tournament it would happen ~16 times out of 127 games so that very well could have a significant impact on the results. That is only assuming that every game goes 3 rounds. If we can assume that getting your level choice twice in a row is enough of a difference maker to end matches sooner then the probability increases.

 

[Vogue]

People who don't learn how to use or abuse or avoid interactables are going to lose. Sorry but that's the game. Are you guys really implying that interactables "dumb the game down" ? This game has the easiest combos of any any fighter ever. You can literally learn a character and its setups / combos in hours. It's an easy simple to pick up fun game but remains competitive at top levels . Talk of banning anything is ultimate scrub talk at this point. If you don't like the game MK9 is still there and still has a scene. Some people didn't transition from SF4 to marvel because its a different game, same will happen with Injustice. There is no reason to try and turn Injustice into something it isn't.

 

[Dandy J]

if its such a big issue then ban interactables altogether. no point beating around the bush with all these rules, if youre going to go out of your way to create artificial rules, just turn them off

 

[Vogue]

if its such a big issue then ban interactables altogether. no point beating around the bush with all these rules, if youre going to go out of your way to create artificial rules, just turn them off

Just play a different game.

 

[Oogalord]

i think Dizzy is right. random stage would not only do away with the abuse of certain stages, but would force players to adapt to every stage. this makes it so all of the stages in the game will be utilized instead of every single tourney match being on the same stage.

which is desirable, is it not? i don't think IOs are bad, although i don't think respawnable objects should do it more than once a match.

 

[EGP Awesomo]

I really just think if you tone down the damage and keep interactables from OTG'ing they wouldnt be to much of a problem. I honestly feel that when I beat in losers final it couldnt gone another round, but I scrubed his Frost out with drones. Anybody that says metropolis isnt broken hasnt played someone who knows how to use the stage....

 

[RiBBz22]

I really just think if you tone down the damage and keep interactables from OTG'ing they wouldnt be to much of a problem. I honestly feel that when I beat in losers final it couldnt gone another round, but I scrubed his Frost out with drones. Anybody that says metropolis isnt broken hasnt played someone who knows how to use the stage....

I see drones in my sleep. I wish I could have just jumped off the rooftop and took the transition damage luls!

 

[Wawa]

My thoughts on this is:

Game 1 = 50/50
Game 2 = Loser Picks
Game 3 = Loser Picks

Or

Game 1 = Tourney specified map
Game 2 = Loser Picks
Game 3 = Loser Picks

This is probably the best way.

 

[Vogue]

My thoughts on this is:

Game 1 = 50/50
Game 2 = Loser Picks
Game 3 = Loser Picks

Or

Game 1 = Tourney specified map
Game 2 = Loser Picks
Game 3 = Loser Picks

This is probably the best way.

There no way to pick a 100% fair tournament stage and random is unnecessary.

I agree with loser picking , however they should re-50/50 if the loser changes characters. Ban nothing .

 

[The Gabriel]

My thoughts on this is:

Game 1 = 50/50
Game 2 = Loser Picks
Game 3 = Loser Picks

Or

Game 1 = Tourney specified map
Game 2 = Loser Picks
Game 3 = Loser Picks

This is probably the best way.

The problem with this is that the winner of the 50/50 then automatically gets to pick 2 out of the 3 stages.

I think the most fair would be each player bans 1 stage, then game 1 = 50/50, game 2 = loser picks, game 3 = 50/50

 

[chores]

(.5)^n where n=number of times the same players get their level choice in a row. so the probability of one player getting their level choice 3 times in a row in a best of 3 is .125 or 1 in 8 odds on average. That would likely happen several times in a large tournament. If you had a 128 person SINGLE elimination tournament it would happen ~16 times out of 127 games so that very well could have a significant impact on the results. That is only assuming that every game goes 3 rounds. If we can assume that getting your level choice twice in a row is enough of a difference maker to end matches sooner then the probability increases.

(just for reference, i know this is obvious info) -- To expand on this, if you used the player 2 level select which is random AFAICT then each individual stage would have a 3.3% chance of being selected, except for Atlantis and Ferris which each (this is more of a gut feeling from playing a ton of matches using p2 select /not scientific) have a 6.6% chance of being selected. Also if you consider the two Arkhams to be essentially the same level then each of those two stages also have a 6.6% chance of selection.

I am not 100% certain on the 6.6% for atlantis / ferris. It'd be nice to have a developer [ colt ] confirm that A) p2 level select starts on a truly random level and B) whether or not atlantis / ferris have a 6.6% chance or 3.3%. If someone wanted to test this I would do at least 500 random player 2 selects. The difference should be apparent.

 

[KRYS9984]

The simplest way to solve this problem is to agree on the first stage or a 50 / 50 if no mutual decision is reached and as previously done in Mortal Kombat 9, the loser selects the next stage. If the loser is on P2 he or she simply tells P1 their desired level / starting point and you're off to the next match.

The 50 / 50 on game #1 might not seem fair to some people since one player will be granted their choice twice in a set (if a third game is necessary) but it's the only way to keep thing as legitimate as possible. Another option would be to Rock, Paper, Scissors before game #1 (which removes the in-game randomness) and puts the outcome in your hands; the winner selects the first stage and possibly the P1 / P2 spots at the same time (if this makes a difference to them).

The idea of random select (choosing the portrait that comes up first) is not a bad idea but once again, the random factor is too high and levels that benefit a certain class could come up a few times in a row.

At this time, interactables are not going anywhere so it's best to embrace them and create a specific strategy / game plan for each level. The damage and re-spawning is a little over the top and hopefully NRS will address this in an up-coming patch.

 

[bipolar_shango]

I've suggested random stages since mk9

 

[Wawa]

There no way to pick a 100% fair tournament stage and random is unnecessary.

I agree with loser picking , however they should re-50/50 if the loser changes characters. Ban nothing .

there really isn't a fair way to pick what the first map should be. even doing the random stage thing can have some issues that could lead to more annoying problems.

The problem with this is that the winner of the 50/50 then automatically gets to pick 2 out of the 3 stages.

I think the most fair would be each player bans 1 stage, then game 1 = 50/50, game 2 = loser picks, game 3 = 50/50

Yes. That's why it's 50/50.
the solution i proposed is pretty much the simplest solution. It doesn't require more moderation and pre-match setups because i haven't really been to much locals to know how much effort moderators want to put in.

 

[Oogalord]

The idea of random select (choosing the portrait that comes up first) is not a bad idea but once again, the random factor is too high and levels that benefit a certain class could come up a few times in a row.

as opposed to Metro Rooftop coming up 50/50?

the most broken stages are going to be the most picked. that's the problem with the 50/50.

 

[Cat]

Hell yeah 50/50 is retarded. There were a couple tournament matches I had where every single match my opponent's level was selected with the 50/50 and I didn't get my level a single time. That means I was being counter-picked the whole tournament set. FUCK THAT.

Everyone needs to just pick Atlantis every match like me and be done with it lol. Atlantis is the fairest stage in the game with the least amount interactables, I always choose this stage no matter what character I am selecting.

But yeah tournaments would be better with random stage every match, if not at least make it loser selects level. 50/50 is bullshit. In my opinion Atlantis should just automatically be used for all tournament matches automatically all the time but that's just me

Every match on stream on Atlantis? What a snore fest. Lol