Why 1 bar block breakers are a necessity

[I GOT HANDS]

Well habibi, it's not just me and OP

I didn't see that and I definitely disagree with his opinion there, strongly. We should evaluate ideas based on their own merits, not by who said them and turn competitive balance discussions into a popularity contest, unfortunately much of TYM already thinks like this and it's gross.

I do think we shouldn't be tagging Paulo in shit like a thread where the OP hasn't even evaluated community response to the idea yet tho (not that he's been at all willing to take any of it onboard regardless)

 

[Goat-City-II]

I didn't see that and I definitely disagree with his opinion there, strongly. We should evaluate ideas based on their own merits, not by who said them and turn competitive balance discussions into a popularity contest, unfortunately much of TYM already thinks like this and it's gross.

I do think we shouldn't be tagging Paulo in shit like a thread where the OP hasn't even evaluated community response to the idea yet tho (not that he's been at all willing to take any of it onboard regardless)

I know I was wrong for tagging Paulo now; it was a simple mistake and I apologize. I put an apology at the top of the OP. I can't take the tag out of the title, and I've now realized there are certainly some good arguments for why block breakers should not be 1 bar. I will take the criticism from this thread and try to come up with new ideas, and I will compose my threads in a less overconfident way with fewer tags in them next time, if any.

I still think block breakers being a bar would most likely improve the game a lot as long as characters were re-balanced properly around it. At first I thought that would be easy, but now it seems like it would be too hard. So another solution would be to remove all frame trap loops like Shinnok's hell sparks loop, Kung Lao's EX orbital hat loops, Quan Chi's EX rune loops, and Tanya's EX recka loops. They could do this by only barely making them plus like plus 1 or maybe 2, or they could make it so you could only use them once in a block string and then they would no longer come out.

On top of that, to nerf the guessing game of stagger pressure they could just give most stagger strings in the game slightly more delay in between them.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

I know I was wrong for tagging Paulo now; it was a simple mistake and I apologize. I put an apology at the top of the OP. I can't take the tag out of the title, and I've now realized there are certainly some good arguments for why block breakers should not be 1 bar. I will take the criticism from this thread and try to come up with new ideas, and I will compose my threads in a less overconfident way with fewer tags in them next time, if any.

I still think block breakers being a bar would most likely improve the game a lot as long as characters were re-balanced properly around it. At first I thought that would be easy, but now it seems like it would be too hard. So another solution would be to remove all frame trap loops like Shinnok's hell sparks loop, Kung Lao's EX orbital hat loops, Quan Chi's EX rune loops, and Tanya's EX recka loops. They could do this by only barely making them plus like plus 1 or maybe 2, or they could make it so you could only use them once in a block string and then they would no longer come out.

On top of that, to nerf the guessing game of stagger pressure they could just give most stagger strings in the game slightly more delay in between them.

IMO the only thing it needs is to cost 1 bar of stamina instead of 2 the reason it s not really viable is that after it you re force to block again but with 1 bar of stamina you could run in and start your offense

 

[_xFriction]

never change tym

 

[Rip Torn]

As it stands, there are some weird issues with block breakers.

First, you take the chip damage from the move that you block break. If you block break an uppercut, that's 3.5%.

Second, if they cancel the move that you block break into an ex move, it takes the bar from them even though the ex move never came out. So if Kung Lao does 112124~ex spinning hat, and you block break the 4, Kung Lao loses a bar for the spinning hat which never came out.

I think they should probably fix these issues at the least before making any drastic changes.

 

[JustPressingButtons]

From how I see it, the keepaway characters will get stronger, while the characters that struggle in neutral will be RIP. Characters like Kotal Kahn, Mileena, and Erron Black wouldn't be able to open up a Quan Chi or Shinnok anymore, making those match ups Unwinnable. What happens if Erron Black gets in after eating waves of hell sparks? Get block breaker for pressing S2, back full screen, and back to square one again. Also, the 50/50 portion of your explanation is also irrelevant since you're still guessing a 50/50 regardless. Also it was mentioned earlier but some characters with relentless offense like Lao will always have meter, so it'll buff him too.

 

[Goat-City-II]

From how I see it, the keepaway characters will get stronger, while the characters that struggle in neutral will be RIP. Characters like Kotal Kahn, Mileena, and Erron Black wouldn't be able to open up a Quan Chi or Shinnok anymore, making those match ups Unwinnable. What happens if Erron Black gets in after eating waves of hell sparks? Get block breaker for pressing S2, back full screen, and back to square one again. Also, the 50/50 portion of your explanation is also irrelevant since you're still guessing a 50/50 regardless. Also it was mentioned earlier but some characters with relentless offense like Lao will always have meter, so it'll buff him too.

Did you read the 50/50 section? It focused on the fact that if you block break a jump in punch you no longer have to take the following 50/50 that would be guaranteed otherwise. Same for a 50/50 in the middle of a string, if you know it's coming just block break before the 50/50 comes up. 50/50s and mixups would then become much more fair because many times they come up you can just ignore them completely if you have a bar. Players could not be as salty about losing because they guessed wrong because it's now their fault that they didn't conserve a bar to avoid that 50/50 after a JIP or in the middle of a string. If they chose not to spend the bar to break then they have to deal with the consequence, and that's guessing between high or low.

 

[JustPressingButtons]

Did you read the 50/50 section? It focused on the fact that if you block break a jump in punch you no longer have to take the following 50/50 that would be guaranteed otherwise. Same for a 50/50 in the middle of a string, if you know it's coming just block break before the 50/50 comes up. 50/50s and mixups would then become much more fair because many times they come up you can just ignore them completely if you have a bar. Players could not be as salty about losing because they guessed wrong because it's now their fault that they didn't conserve a bar to avoid that 50/50 after a JIP or in the middle of a string. If they chose not to spend the bar to break then they have to deal with the consequence, and that's guessing between high or low.

But in a realistic and high level environment, no one is jumping like a rabbit to start their pressure or offense.

And the point with the late string 50/50 is apart of the problem. Erron Black won't be able to 21122 anymore, which will ruin the character. Or How about Mileena, what option will she have then? Or Jason, or Kotal? They would just be whiff punishers at best, but why use them at a tournament if I can just pick Lao or Shinnok and be untouchable due to 1 bar block breaker and they gain meter fast?

 

[KingHippo]

I think a problem is that I can think of very few situations, with the exception of IG, where lead design ever changes the way a game is designed to play like. A lot of ppl puff their chest and talk about what they'd say to Paulo, and it's like, you know he's gonna answer your long complaint about 50/50 starters with "I think they're tight" and move on.

Also, he's in stream chats a lot seemingly, I really doubt he hasn't heard every single complaint. What is expected? For him to go "you're right, my game was crap until you came up with an idea" ?

Maybe the game is the way it is because...idk...he likes it that way? Fuudo for thought

 

[Doombawkz]

Make it happen.

That way Ferra/Torr can be broken since they don't obey the laws of block breakers.
I'll enjoy my 1 bar block breaker, enjoy your 3-bar whiffed X-ray into a 40% life loss.

 

[Goat-City-II]

But in a realistic and high level environment, no one is jumping like a rabbit to start their pressure or offense.

And the point with the late string 50/50 is apart of the problem. Erron Black won't be able to 21122 anymore, which will ruin the character. Or How about Mileena, what option will she have then? Or Jason, or Kotal? They would just be whiff punishers at best, but why use them at a tournament if I can just pick Lao or Shinnok and be untouchable due to 1 bar block breaker and they gain meter fast?

They would all be able to do those things because block breakers still cost a bar. Most of the time people would not be choosing to break them because the punishment for not guessing right isn't worth the bar, they think they'll guess correctly even if the punishment is a full combo, they won't have a bar to block break, they'll be at a stamina disadvantage if they do, etc. Erron Black and Mileena are still getting use out of their tools because they're forcing the opponent to spend a bar. For your point about players not jumping a ton at the highest level, they'll still jump, especially characters like Kotal, Quan, Sub Zero and Lao. Obviously block breakers would be useful in situations where the player would like to ignore those 50/50s.

 

[Goat-City-II]

I think a problem is that I can think of very few situations, with the exception of IG, where lead design ever changes the way a game is designed to play like. A lot of ppl puff their chest and talk about what they'd say to Paulo, and it's like, you know he's gonna answer your long complaint about 50/50 starters with "I think they're tight" and move on.

Also, he's in stream chats a lot seemingly, I really doubt he hasn't heard every single complaint. What is expected? For him to go "you're right, my game was crap until you came up with an idea" ?

Maybe the game is the way it is because...idk...he likes it that way? Fuudo for thought

Does that mean we shouldn't share our thoughts on the game and how to improve it? I don't care what Paulo thinks, I'm going to give my opinion as it is and he can disagree with it if he wants, that way I'll never wonder whether or not the game would've been better had I tried to share my thoughts on it.

 

[KingHippo]

Does that mean we shouldn't share our thoughts on the game and how to improve it? I don't care what Paulo thinks, I'm going to give my opinion as it is and he can disagree with it if he wants, that way I'll never wonder whether or not the game would've been better had I tried to share my thoughts on it.

Not at all, that was more for the crowd who's like "Lol Paulo doesn't even interact with the community". Why would he?

Your thread is an idea that has been spammed since the game came out, so I'm just sure someone at nrs has heard this one a thousand times

 

[Doombawkz]

Does that mean we shouldn't share our thoughts on the game and how to improve it? I don't care what Paulo thinks, I'm going to give my opinion as it is and he can disagree with it if he wants, that way I'll never wonder whether or not the game would've been better had I tried to share my thoughts on it.

There is a function on this site called the search bar.
As a rule of thumb, type in the main idea of your thread in there. Yours would be "1 bar block breakers".
If one or more topics pops up, post in one of those as those topics are already designated for such discussion.

http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/should-block-break-be-1-bar.53557/

This topic exists, for example, thus yours does not need to.
I believe this is the point Sir lord hippopotumas III esq. was providing.

 

[TopTierHarley]

Yes, make D'Vorah stronger

 

[Goat-City-II]

Not at all, that was more for the crowd who's like "Lol Paulo doesn't even interact with the community". Why would he?

Your thread is an idea that has been spammed since the game came out, so I'm just sure someone at nrs has heard this one a thousand times

Let me clarify that I knew before I posted this thread that this subject had been talked about a great deal before, but I wanted to share my exact feelings on it. It wasn't about talking about the subject really; if that were the case I would have titled it "What should be done about block breakers?" It was just me listing the explanations I could come up with for how they would make the game better if they were only 1 bar, and then I would be able to see if I would be able to support my opinion against the onslaught of contrasting opinions, but I was not able to, so I can now try to come up with new solutions for the problems that I originally thought 1 bar block breakers would easily solve.

 

[Goat-City-II]

There is a function on this site called the search bar.
As a rule of thumb, type in the main idea of your thread in there. Yours would be "1 bar block breakers".
If one or more topics pops up, post in one of those as those topics are already designated for such discussion.

http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/should-block-break-be-1-bar.53557/

This topic exists, for example, thus yours does not need to.
I believe this is the point Sir lord hippopotumas III esq. was providing.

Thanks, I knew the subject had been talked about before, but not that specific thread you linked which covered a lot of my arguments. I'll use the search bar feature more effectively from now on.

 

[B. Shazzy]

guise what if they made blockbreaker 1 bar right, but made it cost all stamina.

im a genius tth

 

[Goat-City-II]

guise what if they made blockbreaker 1 bar right, but made it cost all stamina.

im a genius tth

I explained in the OP why I thought it might be a good idea to make them cost full stamina, so they wouldn't possibly underpower pressure characters and it would benefit zoning for the reason I gave. I went on to say that I really didn't know and that that should be up to Paulo to decide. Thanks for the sarcastic reply though, next time I'll just post a thread asking if MKX is the scrubbiest game around and get 400 replies.

 

[B. Shazzy]

I explained in the OP why I thought it might be a good idea to make them cost full stamina, so they wouldn't possibly underpower pressure characters and it would benefit zoning for the reason I gave. I went on to say that I really didn't know and that that should be up to Paulo to decide. Thanks for the sarcastic reply though, next time I'll just post a thread asking if MKX is the scrubbiest game around and get 400 replies.

what? i didn't read the op, i was trying to get tth's attention i saw him post here and he's bae

idc about block breakers really i just wanted to impress tth

 

[Goat-City-II]

what? i didn't read the op, i was trying to get tth's attention i saw him post here and he's bae

idc about block breakers really i just wanted to impress tth

Oh my bad lol, I thought tth was one of those things like imo and irl.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Block breaker should be 1 bar of meter and one bar of stamina.

Currently, anything will be better than what it is now.

 

[just_2swift]

NOPE. You finally get in on quan chi summer after making the right read mind you he builds meter with his ridiculous zoning. Then bam! A wild inexpensive block breaker appeared! Then your back full screen and have to hold his shit.

NOPE

 

[Wetdoba]

NOPE. You finally get in on quan chi summer after making the right read mind you he builds meter with his ridiculous zoning. Then bam! A wild inexpensive block breaker appeared! Then your back full screen and have to hold his shit.

NOPE

Easy solution, in the same theoretical patch that would make block breakers one bar they could also make Quan Chi not broke

 

[KrstffrMunk]

Then your back full screen and have to hold his shit.

Block breakers don't push the opponent full screen.