Which characters and what should be normalized on them?

[MadeOfMetal]

Ummmmm, Ok
Fans are a combo starter if your opponent jumps other wise if they hit on the ground their advantage

that's like saying cassie's b+2 is a combo starter because it puts the opponent in the air from a juggle state....i'm not really seeing your point rn

...?

 

[StealthyMuffin]

im sur eits somewhere, isnt it enough that i have seen it first hand, example recently, tried to punish Ball roll from Piercing mileena, with Tremors F12D3, and first 2 hits wiffed, she rolles off ya into the air and most highs wiff, and some mids catch but its like damn...

duplicate it in the lab...

tag me later and ill duplicate it myself, unless you believe me?

Nah, I'll take your word.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

It doesn't matter that she can't open people up. It's ALWAYS her turn to play. She completely controls the match with great mobility tools, projectile spam, grab mixups, she always has meter to break, and when she does manage to hit you, that's at least 30% meterless.

I'm not saying she's on KL's level. I do think she's top 10. Undeniably top 15.

No overhead? Her entire Jump in games consists of JIPxxfloat,2(safe overhead), JIP,B3xxfan(safe low), JIP,F112xxfan(35% combo and 5% safe chip damage).

-8 is ridiculously good for such a useful move. Fans really make this character stronk.
stay free fucboi

"Top 15" in a game with ~ 30 characters is balanced enough. She doesn't deserver any nerf, especially on her most used tool
And you clearly don't know anything about Kitana. ALL OF HER JUMP NORMALS SUCK. She jumps because she can win air-to-air but she takes risk as well, because she loses to most anti air moves in the game. Jump kick fan is super punishable. The float is just a gimmick that people without enough matchup experience let go freely. Jip float has a gap that can be armored through and if they decide to block her njp, she's at minus.
And finally, her fan doesn't start a combo when you're standing. She loses to half of the cast, in those matchups she can't throw fan freely and she DOES NOT outdamage, outchip anyone up close.
Guess the fact that NRS is ignoring all Takeda buff requests makes you very salty and jealous about Kitana right? Or you're just among all those SonicFox haters?

 

[exflyingbooty]

...?

He thought fan cause a launch on nh ground hit which if it did he has more then enough rights to be salty lol, i even think that's busted lol

"Top 15" in a game with ~ 30 characters is balanced enough. She doesn't deserver any nerf, especially on her most used tool
And you clearly don't know anything about Kitana. ALL OF HER JUMP NORMALS SUCK. She jumps because she can win air-to-air but she takes risk as well, because she loses to most anti air moves in the game. Jump kick fan is super punishable. The float is just a gimmick that people without enough matchup experience let go freely. Jip float has a gap that can be armored through and if they decide to block her njp, she's at minus.
And finally, her fan doesn't start a combo when you're standing. She loses to half of the cast, in those matchups she can't throw fan freely and she DOES NOT outdamage, outchip anyone up close.
Guess the fact that NRS is ignoring all Takeda buff requests makes you very salty and jealous about Kitana right? Or you're just among all those SonicFox haters?

We kitana mains never get a break do we??

 

[StealthyMuffin]

"Top 15" in a game with ~ 30 characters is balanced enough. She doesn't deserver any nerf, especially on her most used tool
And you clearly don't know anything about Kitana. ALL OF HER JUMP NORMALS SUCK. She jumps because she can win air-to-air but she takes risk as well, because she loses to most anti air moves in the game. Jump kick fan is super punishable. The float is just a gimmick that people without enough matchup experience let go freely. Jip float has a gap that can be armored through and if they decide to block her njp, she's at minus.
And finally, her fan doesn't start a combo when you're standing. She loses to half of the cast, in those matchups she can't throw fan freely and she DOES NOT outdamage, outchip anyone up close.
Guess the fact that NRS is ignoring all Takeda buff requests makes you very salty and jealous about Kitana right? Or you're just among all those SonicFox haters?

Yeah, actually. I guess I am just upset that Takeda didn't get the Kitana treatment.
You know...

The treatment that...

Made Kitana top 10.

1.HU Predator?
2.Temp Lao
3.KJ Tanya
4.BS Shin
5.SQ D'vorah
6.SM/SO Quan
7.OL Erron
8.HW Cassie
9.TG Raiden
10.RS Kitana

My tier list is solid. So that means you're wrong.

But for real. I honestly don't know too much about her. You're probably right. I'll learn respect.

 

[exflyingbooty]

But for real. I honestly don't know too much about her. You're probably right. I'll learn respect.

get a life lead, crouch wait for kitana to kill herself

 

[Zatoichi]

Just my two cents on what needs to be "normalized" on Kano.

KANO:
Universal:

• 112 string has a slightly increased vertical hitbox. It will no longer whiff on certain crouch blocking characters.
• Up Ball has a decreased hurtbox, giving it priority over air attacks. (It will now beat Kung Jin's NJP, Scorpions air kick, etc) Up Ball is something that NEEDS to make jump happy players think twice about jumping in on Kano. Kano NEEDS something to make players respect him and play by HIS game for once. I've had it happen WAY too many times where even MB Up Ball was getting beat out by shit like Kung Jin's NJP and Scorpion's air attacks, no way should that happen in my opinion.
  
• b13 now does 8% more damage, up from 6%
• 32 now +2 on block, up from -1

Commando:

• Choke +10 on hit, up from -5
• Strangle +10 on hit, up from +5
• Choke and Strangle no longer whiff after f33 on hit
  
• Fixed damage on 32, it now does the same damage as it does in the other variations. 10% damage, up from 7% damage. This means 32 1+3 will now do 21% instead of 18%.
  
• The command grabs no longer whiff on certain combo strings and specials

Cutthroat:

• b1's hitbox slightly extended horizontally
• Bloody Slice now has a hit of armor.
  
• 32 hit properties are now like Commando's, it will keep the opponent standing instead of launching them.

Cybernetic:

• b23 does 10% damage, up from 8%
• Eye Burst does 7% damage, up from 6%
• Eye Blast does 10% damage, up from 9%
• Knife Toss -6 on block
• Multi Blades +10 on block
  
• 32 hit properties are now like Commando's, it will keep the opponent standing instead of launching them.

I think with 32 being safer on block and Commando's Wood Chipper doing 21%, it will finally make up for Commando lacking combos. Also with 32 in Cyber and Cutthroat now behaving like Commando's 32, it gives Kano slightly better combos because 32 > Laser could be a thing now. It also floats the opponent a bit during combos allowing Kano to do combo starter into 32 juggle and follow up with another 32, b13, etc into combo ender.

 

[jass_kion]

Don't know if anyone has talked about this earlier, Liu Kang Dragon Fire F2,1,4 fireball~run cancel is still about + 24 on block and cannot be armored through, my point is why normalise scorpion, shinnok, dvorah etc. that had + 20s block strings and leave Liu's to rock. or does NRS need to see a top player abusing it before its normalised.

Edit*
Liu Kang Dragons Fire
F2,1,4 FBRC +14 on block down from +24

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Yeah, actually. I guess I am just upset that Takeda didn't get the Kitana treatment.
You know...

The treatment that...

Made Kitana top 10.

1.HU Predator?
2.Temp Lao
3.KJ Tanya
4.BS Shin
5.SQ D'vorah
6.SM/SO Quan
7.OL Erron
8.HW Cassie
9.MoS Raiden
10.RS Kitana

My tier list is solid. So that means you're wrong.

But for real. I honestly don't know too much about her. You're probably right. I'll learn respect.

just one edit!!!!!

1.HU Predator? a bit early, but i will go as far to say he might be the best zoner
2.Temp Lao
3.KJ Tanya
4.BS Shin- what about imposter?
5.SQ D'vorah
6.SM/SO Quan
7.OL Erron
8.HW Cassie
9.MoS Raiden: i think Thunder God is much better reason, range, multi hitting normals, easy meter stuff meterless, LRC mixup/guessgame
10.RS Kitana

just one edit!!!!!

also i think Sonya is creeping her way up there...

 

[StealthyMuffin]

just one edit!!!!!

1.HU Predator? a bit early, but i will go as far to say he might be the best zoner
2.Temp Lao
3.KJ Tanya
4.BS Shin- what about imposter?
5.SQ D'vorah
6.SM/SO Quan
7.OL Erron
8.HW Cassie
9.MoS Raiden: i think Thunder God is much better reason, range, multi hitting normals, easy meter stuff meterless, LRC mixup/guessgame
10.RS Kitana

just one edit!!!!!

also i think Sonya is creeping her way up there...

I got the names mixed up lol. I'll edit it.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

I got the names mixed up lol. I'll edit it.

i do it sometimes, the other day someone said Cassie CO and i was like whaaaaa, isnt that a sonya variation, then i was like duh and switched,, lol

 

[JDM]

Out of all the Tanya nerfs so far, I'm still bamboozled as to why Kobu Jutsu's armor breaking armored starter with 2 hits of resistance is -8 on block.... universally unsafe or GTFO.



This is unnecessary IMO. The new metagame is superior in the fact that you can chew up armor and backdash attempts, and get a big chunk of damage out because they most likely won't have access to breaker for a while.

If this is because Dragon's Fire Liu Kang still has them, then let me tell you, there's no way his are staying put either.

However, I do feel Scorpion does have a few problems that people did not previously acknowledge because they were too paranoid about the old blockstring. Not overwhelming problems, but should be brought to NRS' attention. I'll be making a thread soon, I just need a bit more time so I can triple check I have my information straight.

I stopped using Hellfire after the nerfs, what is the new metagame for stopping mashers and backdashes/etc.? I tried relearning him but in reality I was just trying to use him like pre patch scorpion.

 

[StealthyMuffin]

Don't know if anyone has talked about this earlier, Liu Kang Dragon Fire F2,1,4 fireball~run cancel is still about + 24 on block and cannot be armored through, my point is why normalise scorpion, shinnok, dvorah etc. that had + 20s block strings and leave Liu's to rock. or does NRS need to see a top player abusing it before its normalised.

Edit*
Liu Kang Dragons Fire
F2,1,4 FBRC +14 on block down from +24

Against characters with slow armor:
F213xxFBRC,F213xxFBRC,F213xxFBDC,B12xxflying kicks=14% chip and 1.2 bars
It's VERY difficult to poke out of. Almost impossible.

 

[LucaTheRipper]

also i think Sonya is creeping her way up there...

Yup, i see a lot of potential in Demolition.

 

[Xx-TGODPRINCE-Xx]

normalize tremor. 13% unblockable/unscaled OTG damage for 1 bar? shits B-R-O-K-E

He needs it with his lack or little wake up option........ imo. I've played him about 100 matches and without it, its very hard to keep up with top tier or high damage character. No offense intended toward your post

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

He needs it with his lack or little wake up option........ imo. I've played him about 100 matches and without it, its very hard to keep up with top tier or high damage character. No offense intended toward your post

It was sarcasm, my friend

 

[Zoidberg747]

Shh I said that so Tanya could win more often. It's the Tanya agenda.

I think the main focus should be trying to not get her nerfed lol

 

[GAV]

It doesn't matter that she can't open people up. It's ALWAYS her turn to play. She completely controls the match with great mobility tools, projectile spam, grab mixups, she always has meter to break, and when she does manage to hit you, that's at least 30% meterless.
I'm not saying she's on KL's level. I do think she's top 10. Undeniably top 15.
No overhead? Her entire Jump in games consists of JIPxxfloat,2(safe overhead), JIP,B3xxfan(safe low), JIP,F112xxfan(35% combo and 5% safe chip damage).
-8 is ridiculously good for such a useful move. Fans really make this character stronk.

Um, kitana doesn't have a combo starting special that's -8 wtf are you talking about??????

I guess fans don't exist. You right.

 

[getoverhere--->]

Fuck Kano. He needs no buffs at all, cheap bastard

 

[jaythatruth]

What do you mean? His only + string is 11, every other string is <=0. Hat spin is -3. Ex hat spin can be armored. 11212 can be backdashed when blocked crouching. 11212*4 has a gap. Ex hat spin consumes meter rather than builds meter. It's not bad at all, but it's not op or broken. You have options.

4,4 is also +2 BTW

 

[just_2swift]

Yeah, actually. I guess I am just upset that Takeda didn't get the Kitana treatment.
You know...

The treatment that...

Made Kitana top 10.

1.HU Predator?
2.Temp Lao
3.KJ Tanya
4.BS Shin
5.SQ D'vorah
6.SM/SO Quan
7.OL Erron
8.HW Cassie
9.TG Raiden
10.RS Kitana

My tier list is solid. So that means you're wrong.

But for real. I honestly don't know too much about her. You're probably right. I'll learn respect.

Jax main confirmed. Jax down playing confirmed because he is not in the tier list

 

[just_2swift]

4,4 is also +2 BTW

There is a gap 4(4) <-armor here.

Stay free.

 

[jaythatruth]

There is a gap 4(4) <-armor here.

Stay free.

So because there's a gap that makes it negative on block? Hot damn, learn something new everyday...

 

[Xx-TGODPRINCE-Xx]

It was sarcasm, my friend

Lol lk i said no offense

 

[darklightjg1]

Lol "Normalize"

Okay, Jacqui plz...

-Give her standing 1 and 2 starters more horizontal range on their hitboxes. The range is inexcusably bad.
-f+1,2,1 to come out on block, even if it gets less frame advantage to balance
-Faster d+2 and d+4
-An actual reason to use Meter Burn BF+2 other than brutality.
-Slightly more range on jump attacks or faster startup or something. I think they're kinda wack.
-Some High-tech improvements to make it a more viable variation
-Shotgun Dust to have a better hitbox to land more consistently on all characters
-Stanky Leg input change to either double tap 4 or U+4 like Liu Kang's U+4
-----------------------------------------------


-Normalize Tanya by putting Jade in the game and making it a 10-0 matchup in Jade's favor