Stamina "Cool Down" on Combo Breakers - Is it too Long?

[RoboCop]

I think a lot of answers are going to be based around the players' mains. Jacqui has almost no offensive options without her run cancels, so every time I break that's 7.5 seconds that I can't do 90% of her neutral game strategies or combos. So I think it's a bit severe. But I'm sure someone who has never had to rely on run cancels would disagree.

 

[RelentlessOhio]

Imo being punished for breaking a combo because you got opened up is a good thing. I think people should be happy that they can actually break a combo in the first place.

Why do you need your stamina after a breaker? To press the advantage after breaking a combo for a knockdown? To retreat further after getting out of a bad situation at the cost of meter? You get into a bad situation from mistakes on your part. You shouldn't be able to just correct mistakes with 2 bars of meter. It makes perfect sense for your movement to be limited after completely stopping your opponents momentum just because you had 2 bars.

It's supposed to be a risk/reward situation. You saved up those expensive 2 bars, along with the stamina. Rightfully-fucking-so you should be able to breaker and go into a punish or something.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

I like how breakers are. It helps out balance characters who easily build meter and those who don't.

This is the week of "i don't like Y or X mechanics in the game, lets change it"

Right? Like wtf.

 

[Scoot Magee]

It's supposed to be a risk/reward situation. You saved up those expensive 2 bars, along with the stamina. Rightfully-fucking-so you should be able to breaker and go into a punish or something.

I guess we all forgot about how bad it was to be able to do what you want after breaking in MK9.

 

[haketh]

I mean if it was up to me Breakers & Burst wouldn't exist in games & in MK you can't even bait Burst like you can in most games so some penalty being there is nice.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Leaving more stamina after breakers or making it recover faster will only cater to the donkeys.

 

[Take$$$]

Imo being punished for breaking a combo because you got opened up is a good thing. I think people should be happy that they can actually break a combo in the first place.

Why do you need your stamina after a breaker? To press the advantage after breaking a combo for a knockdown? To retreat further after getting out of a bad situation at the cost of meter? You get into a bad situation from mistakes on your part. You shouldn't be able to just correct mistakes with 2 bars of meter. It makes perfect sense for your movement to be limited after completely stopping your opponents momentum just because you had 2 bars.

I don't think most of us are asking for what you think we are. We just want the recovery time to be reduced by a small amount, not removed or significantly reduced. The penalty is beneficial for the person on the offensive in stamina reliant vs stamina reliant character matches after all.

 

[Take$$$]

I mean if it was up to me Breakers & Burst wouldn't exist in games & in MK you can't even bait Burst like you can in most games so some penalty being there is nice.

I imagine we'd have a pretty different mk game if breakers didn't exist.

 

[Big Pampering]

I like how people say I managed to open you up but all they did was condition you to block. The game is full of 50/50's you don't even have to open someone up, you just have to get in.

Edit: for most characters at least. Some characters don't really have a 50/50 into combo and have to open you up with throws and making you over commit or make you respect their pressure and stuff. But don't tell me you had to open someone up when your gameplan is getting that 50/50 in.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I don't think most of us are asking for what you think we are. We just want the recovery time to be reduced by a small amount, not removed or significantly reduced. The penalty is beneficial for the person on the offensive in stamina reliant vs stamina reliant character matches after all.

I do realize though. I think it's perfect the way it is. You can still move, you can still play footsies and etc. It's a limited time of punishment for escaping damage after being hit. The player that had his combo broken because you had meter should have a significant advantage in mobility. It adds depth, it makes you think of the risks before breaking. If you want your stamina you eat the combo, that's what I do.

The system is perfect the way it is imo. There's no real reason that the time should be decreased outside of the fact that people can't handle losing stamina for the time it takes to regen. It's supposed to be a punishment for a huge benefit of saving about 30 some odd percent of your health while knocking them down across the screen or keeping them cornered. Breakers can grant positional advantage as well As saving your life.

 

[Bidu]

What if after I break I am a character where run cancels in my combos are a necessity?

Think about that.

You can still combo without stamina.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I like how people say I managed to open you up but all they did was condition you to block. The game is full of 50/50's you don't even have to open someone up, you just have to get in.

Edit: for most characters at least. Some characters don't really have a 50/50 into combo and have to open you up with throws and making you over commit or make you respect their pressure and stuff. But don't tell me you had to open someone up when your gameplan is getting that 50/50 in.

I like how you say that you just have to get in. As if just getting in is easy against a good player. I understand this game is very aggressive but there's plenty of ways to not let people just get in and 50 50 you all day.

 

[Take$$$]

I do realize though. I think it's perfect the way it is. You can still move, you can still play footsies and etc. It's a limited time of punishment for escaping damage after being hit. The player that had his combo broken because you had meter should have a significant advantage in mobility. It adds depth, it makes you think of the risks before breaking. If you want your stamina you eat the combo, that's what I do.

The system is perfect the way it is imo. There's no real reason that the time should be decreased outside of the fact that people can't handle losing stamina for the time it takes to regen. It's supposed to be a punishment for a huge benefit of saving about 30 some odd percent of your health while knocking them down across the screen or keeping them cornered. Breakers can grant positional advantage as well As saving your life.

If they remove a second or even .5 seconds its still a huge punishment, and whoever had their combo broken still has a significant advantage in mobility, but it helps out some characters a little bit if they can manage to survive.

 

[Big Pampering]

I like how you say that you just have to get in. As if just getting in is easy against a good player. I understand this game is very aggressive but there's plenty of ways to not let people just get in and 50 50 you all day.

There is a difference between opening someone up and getting in. Not saying they don't have to deal with other shit but having a 50/50 and having to open people up with throws and making the opponent overcommit or scared to do stuff is a whole different story. Maybe it is harder for some of those characters to get in I am not saying it is easy or whatever I am not even arguing that. Just saying it is not the same thing as opening someone up. I never said it was easy don't put words in my mouth.

 

[Scoot Magee]

You can still do combos without rc and do dece

If they remove a second or even .5 seconds its still a huge punishment, and whoever had their combo broken still has a significant advantage in mobility, but it helps out some characters a little bit if they can manage to survive.

All characters will benefit, not just some. Just because some characters don't use fb cancels or rely on rc for heavy damage doesn't meen that the stamina isn't important.

 

[Eddy Wang]

If characters like Cassie and Jacqui break and this affect their mobility i think this is a good thing, those two characters are pretty annoying to deal with in first first place, if i force them to break after all the bullshit they've been put me trough they deserve to die

 

[Scoot Magee]

There is a difference between opening someone up and getting in. Not saying they don't have to deal with other shit but having a 50/50 and having to open people up with throws and making the opponent overcommit or scared to do stuff is a whole different story. Maybe it is harder for some of those characters to get in I am not saying it is easy or whatever I am not even arguing that. Just saying it is not the same thing as opening someone up. I never said it was easy don't put words in my mouth.

You absolutely implied that it's easy. Your whole argument for wanting faster regen on stamina was that they just have to get in and 50 50. That implies that there's not much effort getting in. If you didn't imply that then your argument doesn't make sense.

It can work the other way too. Cassie breaks your combo, corners you and has less cooldown on stamina. She gets in faster and you have to deal with more 50 50.

 

[Take$$$]

You can still do combos without rc and do dece

All characters will benefit, not just some. Just because some characters don't use fb cancels or rely on rc for heavy damage doesn't meen that the stamina isn't important.

Well yeah, it'll help out the more stamina reliant characters more than others, but it also might help zoners significantly more than others too. Either way your opponent still has a ton of time, so the huge cost of breaking doesn't get significantly reduced overall with a slight reduction.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Well yeah, it'll help out the more stamina reliant characters more than others, but it also might help zoners significantly more than others too. Either way your opponent still has a ton of time, so the huge cost of breaking doesn't get significantly reduced overall with a slight reduction.

How will it help a zoner if a rush down character breaks and gets stamina back faster? Even a slight reduction is significant.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Its a Quid pro Quo feature
You throw away not only meter but depending of your archtype of character your options also become limited.

Rushdown characters can't run back in if they break
Zoning characters can't back the fuck out when they break
Stamina Reliant characters can't use Stamina based moves when they break

Seems pretty fair to me

 

[Big Pampering]

You absolutely implied that it's easy. Your whole argument for wanting faster regen on stamina was that they just have to get in and 50 50. That implies that there's not much effort getting in. If you didn't imply that then your argument doesn't make sense.

It can work the other way too. Cassie breaks your combo, corners you and has less cooldown on stamina. She gets in faster and you have to deal with more 50 50.

Scoot I like you but don't put even more words in my mouth after I just told you to not put words in my mouth lol. I said 50/50 characters gameplan is usually to get that 50/50 mixup in. While other characters have to get in and then open you up. So basically there is one more layer for other characters to work through, maybe it is easier for those characters to get in but they do have to open you up. I am not saying it is easy, I am saying it is not the same as opening someone up because it simply isn't. I am not saying they should get rid of the stamina cooldown, I am just saying I would have preferred a 5 sec cooldown instead of an 8 sec cooldown. Am I allowed to have an opinion/preference. The OP is asking for peoples opinions can I give mine? If the developers think it shouldn't be changed it won't be changed, nobody is losing their minds over this.

 

[Take$$$]

How will it help a zoner if a rush down character breaks and gets stamina back faster?

I didn't say it would for sure, I said it might since when they break they get to run or backdash a little sooner. Just thought it might be potentially useful for zoners, even though it goes both ways. That wasn't the point of my post however, my point was that you say breaker should carry a significant penalty, but I say a slight reduction on stamina recovery still makes breaking have a significant penalty.

That makes me curious though, what if heavy zoning variations had a significantly reduced stamina penalty to their breaker? Haven't really thought about it. Probably a bad idea, but I dunno.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Scoot I like you but don't put even more words in my mouth after I just told you to not put words in my mouth lol. I said 50/50 characters gameplan is usually to get that 50/50 mixup in. While other characters have to get in and then open you up. So basically there is one more layer for other characters to work through, maybe it is easier for those characters to get in but they do have to open you up. I am not saying it is easy, I am saying it is not the same as opening someone up because it simply isn't. I am not saying they should get rid of the stamina cooldown, I am just saying I would have preferred a 5 sec cooldown instead of an 8 sec cooldown. Am I allowed to have an opinion/preference. The OP is asking for peoples opinions can I give mine? If the developers think it shouldn't be changed it won't be changed, nobody is losing their minds over this.

Lol it's cool to have an opinion dude, I like you too btw. I just strongly disagree with this and that's my opinion. Nothing personal man.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

This game is 50 50 town.
Breakers expend all resources to properly defend yourself.

The "opening people up" this is moot with rampent Un reactable 50/50

Only change needed is that you get to keep one stamina bar. Everything else makes sense.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Again, people seem to be misinterpreting what's being said.

When you break you lose both stamina bars, both bars of meter and are frozen in place for a second without the ability to move. On top of that, you don't get any stamina back till another 7s.

If you manage your resources enough so that you are able to break when you want/need to, why should you be quadruple penalised? You guessed wrong on a 50/50, and now you instantly have to eat another 50/50 even after spending all your resources?

No one is saying you should be put at advantage or even at neutral after a breaker. But a 5s cooldown and/or removal of that freezing time would still significantly disadvantage the player who used breaker, without making breakers basically useless for some characters, which they are.